|
Albertheisenhouer
Tryptamine doctor



Registered: 10/26/13
Posts: 734
Loc: Holland
Last seen: 22 days, 12 hours
|
Re: Drugs experts warning: deadly 'super-strength' ecstasy hits Glasgow [Re: Fractal420]
#21292370 - 02/18/15 08:03 AM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Fractal420 said: It takes 2g of MDMA to kill the average person, as far as I know.
This is not true, I've tripped with people who took 4 grams of MDMA in a night, and are still alive. The LD50 of mdma must be around 97 mg/kg based on mice and guinea pigs. So a 80 kg person should take around 7,7 gr to reach the LD50
|
Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic

Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
|
Re: Drugs experts warning: deadly 'super-strength' ecstasy hits Glasgow [Re: Albertheisenhouer]
#21292401 - 02/18/15 08:15 AM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
""""The “party pills”, which are 10 times stronger than ecstasy tablets on sale five years ago, increase the risk of irreparable brain damage, according to scientists.""""
This is bullshit. MDMA is MDMA, so pills having a high milligram ammount of MDMA in them is nothing new, and nothing to be alarmed about.
Plus there's no evidence that MDMA causes irreparable brain damage.
-E. Borodin
|
roquet
Expat tippler


Registered: 05/29/07
Posts: 1,195
Loc: Dubai بجدية عربي...
|
Re: Drugs experts warning: deadly 'super-strength' ecstasy hits Glasgow [Re: Albertheisenhouer]
#21295816 - 02/18/15 09:10 PM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Albertheisenhouer said: I've tripped with people who took 4 grams of MDMA in a night, and are still alive.
There's a difference between taking an amount of MDMA over a night, which could be many hours, compared to all at once. I've noticed when taking 4 or 5 of the same pills in an evening that the last one has much less effect than the first one. So tolerance must be increasing pretty quickly.
Edited by roquet (02/19/15 02:41 AM)
|
Albertheisenhouer
Tryptamine doctor



Registered: 10/26/13
Posts: 734
Loc: Holland
Last seen: 22 days, 12 hours
|
Re: Drugs experts warning: deadly 'super-strength' ecstasy hits Glasgow [Re: roquet]
#21296595 - 02/19/15 12:39 AM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
I agree that tolerance plays a role, but I was just emphasizing that 2gr mdma is not the LD50.
|
D.M.T
Shroomery Contaminant


Registered: 10/31/09
Posts: 10,991
Loc: In your brain
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
|
Re: Drugs experts warning: deadly 'super-strength' ecstasy hits Glasgow [Re: Albertheisenhouer]
#21296801 - 02/19/15 02:47 AM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
The LD50 of MDMA is 80mg/kg of bodyweight. (The LD50 is the dose at which half the experimental subjects died). So if you weigh 70kg, you would need to take 5600mg to be in serious danger. This is at least 50 or 60 good pills.
Don't know where the info in that quote originates exactly, but a quick Google search lead me to a user saying that on Bluelight.
|
roquet
Expat tippler


Registered: 05/29/07
Posts: 1,195
Loc: Dubai بجدية عربي...
|
Re: Drugs experts warning: deadly 'super-strength' ecstasy hits Glasgow [Re: D.M.T]
#21296857 - 02/19/15 03:39 AM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
D.M.T said:
Quote:
The LD50 of MDMA is 80mg/kg of bodyweight. (The LD50 is the dose at which half the experimental subjects died). So if you weigh 70kg, you would need to take 5600mg to be in serious danger. This is at least 50 or 60 good pills.
Don't know where the info in that quote originates exactly, but a quick Google search lead me to a user saying that on Bluelight.
They're probably extrapolating from the figures for rodents on Erowid; which are 97 mg/kg for mice, 49 mg/kg for rats and 98 mg/kg guinea pigs. Which would be an LD50 of 7.5 grams for humans if we're affected the same by weight as mice and guinea pigs. Or just under 4 grams if you use the number for rats. That's 30 140mg pills or 15 of these super-strength ones.
Though I'd expect to see significant numbers of deaths at well under the LD50 amount. A 14 year old girl in the UK died from 1g of 97% pure MDMA. No other drugs involved and she was in a park, so overheating seems unlikely.
|
Albertheisenhouer
Tryptamine doctor



Registered: 10/26/13
Posts: 734
Loc: Holland
Last seen: 22 days, 12 hours
|
Re: Drugs experts warning: deadly 'super-strength' ecstasy hits Glasgow [Re: roquet]
#21296880 - 02/19/15 04:07 AM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
roquet said: A 14 year old girl in the UK died from 1g of 97% pure MDMA. No other drugs involved and she was in a park, so overheating seems unlikely.
There are ofcourse people with some sort of allergy against these substances. How did they know the purity? 97% purity is only possible if the MDMA was in freebase form (very unlikely)
|
Fractal420
Psycellium



Registered: 06/21/13
Posts: 5,913
Last seen: 1 year, 7 days
|
Re: Drugs experts warning: deadly 'super-strength' ecstasy hits Glasgow [Re: Albertheisenhouer]
#21296956 - 02/19/15 05:13 AM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Binders just hold a pill together, and depending on what they are, usually they dissolve right away. crush a pill and separate it into lines? then youre just railing waxes and binders, along with just minute doses of whatever (probably cathinones) is in there. The idea that crushing changes anything is silly. And if youre aiming to do nasal MDMA, just get some pure molly. Its so much better orally anyway if you ask me, a much more wholesome experience. It seems like people treat MDMA like its coke sometimes.
-------------------- Dreaming of That face again. It's bright and blue and shimmering. Grinning wide And comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes. Prying open MY third eye
|
Fractal420
Psycellium



Registered: 06/21/13
Posts: 5,913
Last seen: 1 year, 7 days
|
Re: Drugs experts warning: deadly 'super-strength' ecstasy hits Glasgow [Re: Fractal420]
#21296974 - 02/19/15 05:26 AM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
according to erowid, for humans, the best guess is that it would be 10-20mg/kg
i am fairly certain that my original number, 2g taken at one time, if its pure MDMA, would kill the average human being.
If youve ever seen anyone take more than that, it was likely not pure mdma (alot of these cathinone analogs are half as potent or less). Although spreading it out also makes it much less toxic than a single dose. Anyone who does 4g of truly pure MDMA is unlikely to see the next morning. Back in the day, I remember extreme cases of people taking like 8-12 pills in a night. These were usually fairly pure and 120mg or so (and often MDA, which is slightly more potent...this was like back before the original .G MDA bombs sweeped the country), So apparently some of these people came pretty close to that LD50, but theyd always spread it out, and these were people that rolled alot and had high tolerances, some even lost the magic by that point
-------------------- Dreaming of That face again. It's bright and blue and shimmering. Grinning wide And comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes. Prying open MY third eye
|
Albertheisenhouer
Tryptamine doctor



Registered: 10/26/13
Posts: 734
Loc: Holland
Last seen: 22 days, 12 hours
|
Re: Drugs experts warning: deadly 'super-strength' ecstasy hits Glasgow [Re: Fractal420]
#21296986 - 02/19/15 05:34 AM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Fractal420 said: Although spreading it out also makes it much less toxic than a single dose. Anyone who does 4g of truly pure MDMA is unlikely to see the next morning. Back in the day, I remember extreme cases of people taking like 8-12 pills in a night. These were usually fairly pure and 120mg or so (and often MDA, which is slightly more potent..
MDMA is more potent than MDA, look it up on erowid.
I believe that the human body can exceed the 2 grams taken at once without OD'ing when looking at LD50 experiments performed on mice, rats etc.
|
roquet
Expat tippler


Registered: 05/29/07
Posts: 1,195
Loc: Dubai بجدية عربي...
|
Re: Drugs experts warning: deadly 'super-strength' ecstasy hits Glasgow [Re: Albertheisenhouer]
#21296990 - 02/19/15 05:37 AM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
I was thinking of Martha Fernback. Actually she was 15 years old, the strength was 91% but she only took half a gram.
This is what her friend said at the inquest:
Quote:
"I kept asking what it felt like and she said things like 'It's amazing, it feels like a dream - it's better than the last time we did it'.
Interestingly, she fell over and cut her head open, an hour before she died. So maybe it a factor. I hadn't read about that before. But the post mortem examination concluded that she died as a result of MDMA toxicity, having suffered a cardiac arrest.
Here's quite a detailed article about it. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/10895656/Mother-of-schoolgirl-who-died-from-ecstasy-overdose-wants-Home-Secretary-to-legalise-drugs.html
|
Albertheisenhouer
Tryptamine doctor



Registered: 10/26/13
Posts: 734
Loc: Holland
Last seen: 22 days, 12 hours
|
Re: Drugs experts warning: deadly 'super-strength' ecstasy hits Glasgow [Re: roquet]
#21297016 - 02/19/15 05:46 AM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
The maximum purity of MDMA is 84,15%, I do not understand how they came up with a purity above that
|
Fractal420
Psycellium



Registered: 06/21/13
Posts: 5,913
Last seen: 1 year, 7 days
|
Re: Drugs experts warning: deadly 'super-strength' ecstasy hits Glasgow [Re: Albertheisenhouer]
#21297055 - 02/19/15 06:09 AM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Where does erowid say a thing like that? And i dont mean the subjective dose graphs that say "100-150" for MDA and theres a couple in between for MDMA just because the page is referred to more than the MDA page. Truth is, they are close, but im pretty sure MDA is a bit more potent. But either way, its not different enough to make too much a difference.
And...what? Nobody dies because a drug is "too pure"... that doesnt make any sense. People dont die from 500mg of pure MDMA. Maybe there were other medications interacting or something else going on. It is possible she had a heart problem or something similar. Or maybe there was some sort of undetected drug in there. The weird thing is... why did she take so much? According to the article, she was talking to her friend while rolling and she didnt freak out or anything. The whole thing seems extremely strange.
One thing the article does get right, but for the millionth time, is that more people will die in similar situations if drugs remain illegal
The maximum purity of MDMA is 100%... Just like any other substance. Realistically, straight from a chinese lab, lets say 98.5-99.5%
Edited by Fractal420 (02/19/15 06:13 AM)
|
Albertheisenhouer
Tryptamine doctor



Registered: 10/26/13
Posts: 734
Loc: Holland
Last seen: 22 days, 12 hours
|
Re: Drugs experts warning: deadly 'super-strength' ecstasy hits Glasgow [Re: Fractal420]
#21297068 - 02/19/15 06:16 AM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
This is a classic example why governments should inform people about drugs instead of banning everything. In holland you can test your drugs for free and they give you advise what to do in certain situations (bad trip, overheating, dehydrating etc.) Something every country should do if you ask me
|
roquet
Expat tippler


Registered: 05/29/07
Posts: 1,195
Loc: Dubai بجدية عربي...
|
Re: Drugs experts warning: deadly 'super-strength' ecstasy hits Glasgow [Re: Fractal420]
#21297340 - 02/19/15 07:49 AM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Fractal420 said: The maximum purity of MDMA is 100%... Just like any other substance. Realistically, straight from a chinese lab, lets say 98.5-99.5%
He's alluding to the difference in weight between MDMA freebase (an oil) and MDMA.HCL (a salt), the form in which crystal MDMA comes. The latter is heavier so requires more for the same effect.
But it's silly to say crystal can't be more than 84% pure, because dosage refers to the salt form. So if you happened to have MDMA oil and you wanted to take a dose equivalent to 100mg, you only need 84mg. When crystal is tested, the percentage of MDMA.HCL is reported, so it could be up to 100%.
|
Albertheisenhouer
Tryptamine doctor



Registered: 10/26/13
Posts: 734
Loc: Holland
Last seen: 22 days, 12 hours
|
Re: Drugs experts warning: deadly 'super-strength' ecstasy hits Glasgow [Re: roquet]
#21297420 - 02/19/15 08:07 AM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
But it's silly to say crystal can't be more than 84% pure, because dosage refers to the salt form.
This is not true. When I bring a pill with 100 mg of 84% MDMA, they report the mdma content to be 84mg. At least, this is what they do here in Holland. Don't know about other countries
Edited by Albertheisenhouer (02/19/15 08:08 AM)
|
roquet
Expat tippler


Registered: 05/29/07
Posts: 1,195
Loc: Dubai بجدية عربي...
|
Re: Drugs experts warning: deadly 'super-strength' ecstasy hits Glasgow [Re: Albertheisenhouer]
#21297555 - 02/19/15 08:40 AM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Albertheisenhouer said: This is not true. When I bring a pill with 100 mg of 84% MDMA, they report the mdma content to be 84mg. At least, this is what they do here in Holland. Don't know about other countries
On a Safer Party, a Swiss pill testing website, all doses are given as MDMA.HCL. They've got 2 UPS pills on there, one at 274.7mg and one at 191.4.
Here's the link http://www.saferparty.ch/tl_files/images/download/file/Warnungen_PDF_2015/MDMA_extrem_hoch_Februar_2015.pdf
|
Albertheisenhouer
Tryptamine doctor



Registered: 10/26/13
Posts: 734
Loc: Holland
Last seen: 22 days, 12 hours
|
Re: Drugs experts warning: deadly 'super-strength' ecstasy hits Glasgow [Re: roquet]
#21297698 - 02/19/15 09:12 AM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
This website states the results as just mg mdma. http://www.pillreports.net/index.php?page=display_pill&id=34413 I guess there are just differences
|
jboredone
Money-The root of all evil....



Registered: 01/19/12
Posts: 4,798
|
Re: Drugs experts warning: deadly 'super-strength' ecstasy hits Glasgow [Re: roquet]
#21297746 - 02/19/15 09:21 AM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
roquet said:
Quote:
Albertheisenhouer said: This is not true. When I bring a pill with 100 mg of 84% MDMA, they report the mdma content to be 84mg. At least, this is what they do here in Holland. Don't know about other countries
On a Safer Party, a Swiss pill testing website, all doses are given as MDMA.HCL. They've got 2 UPS pills on there, one at 274.7mg and one at 191.4.
Here's the link http://www.saferparty.ch/tl_files/images/download/file/Warnungen_PDF_2015/MDMA_extrem_hoch_Februar_2015.pdf
so one has more mdma than the other...that doesn't have anything to do with purity....of said mdma....could test 100 of those pills and they are probably all different...
-------------------- Peace Pot Micro-Dot God Loves You High or Not!!! In order to grow old and wise, you must once have been young and dumb!

|
D.M.T
Shroomery Contaminant


Registered: 10/31/09
Posts: 10,991
Loc: In your brain
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
|
Re: Drugs experts warning: deadly 'super-strength' ecstasy hits Glasgow [Re: Albertheisenhouer]
#21297908 - 02/19/15 09:56 AM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Albertheisenhouer said: The maximum purity of MDMA is 84,15%, I do not understand how they came up with a purity above that
False. The weight of the hydrochloride does not take away from the purity...
|
|