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InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/08/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
Re: the homeless.. dirty bums or clever bussinessmen? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2130913 - 11/23/03 07:52 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Wasn't Jesus homeless?
Quote:


Jesus was the Man, boys and girls.

You can't speak in absolutes like that. There is always going to be at least one person that doesn't fit the generality.
Peace.
 




Umm, I wasn't making an absolute statement. That's why I put the little "?" on the end.  :wink:



--------------------
I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
Re: the homeless.. dirty bums or clever bussinessmen? [Re: Jellric]
    #2130929 - 11/23/03 07:58 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Jellric said:
Umm, I wasn't making an absolute statement. That's why I put the little "?" on the end.  :wink:
 




Sorry, man, that wasn't directed at you, it is just that my right shoulder is all in pain for unknown reasons and I am sort of tired and consumed by conversations at the moment, and I was too lazy to open up a new window and copy the quote from that other guy. :grin:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/08/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
Re: the homeless.. dirty bums or clever bussinessmen? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2130933 - 11/23/03 08:00 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Np, btw if you're Jesus you can just forgive yourself and heal that shoulder in not time flat!


--------------------
I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
Re: the homeless.. dirty bums or clever bussinessmen? [Re: Jellric]
    #2130944 - 11/23/03 08:07 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Jellric said:
Np, btw if you're Jesus you can just forgive yourself and heal that shoulder in not time flat! 




You know, you're right!

I will now close my eyes and use my hands to run healing energy through my shoulder... I'll let ya'll know if it works or not. :grin:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineStonedShroom
OG shroomerite
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Registered: 10/22/00
Posts: 10,874
Last seen: 4 months, 9 days
Re: the homeless.. dirty bums or clever bussinessmen? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2130979 - 11/23/03 08:22 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

OK so since they have an 'addiction' it's ok for them blow our money?

I say invest our money in detox for these scum socially-challanged people and get them off the streets and into stable environments.

I say that in order to receive any type of government assistance they have to pass drug tests or be in some sort of in-patient rehab.

And why does every feel the need to point out I'm a lesbian everytime I voice an opinion? What now just cuz I'm a lesbian my opinion isn't valid? You all think just just cuz I'm gay I don't have the human right to form an opinion? I can CHOOSE to live a straight 'normal' life just like homeless can choose to better themselves, but if I see a woman and I'm still attratched I didn't CHOOSE that. A homeless person can still CHOOSE whether or not he can spend that $5 i just gave him/her on something to better his/herself or to buy whatever drug of choice.

And if you were gonna spend your money on drugs anyway, then good for you. You earned that money. It's yours to do as you please, but doesn't it bother ANY that some lazy ass who spends his day beggin for change is spending your hard-earned money?? Another difference between you spending money on drugs and a homeless person spending money on drugs is you probably took care of your bills before you went out and got your sack. At least that's what a RESPONSIBLE person should do. And since you're on this site, this site that is to 'stop the misinformation about mushrooms' I would assume that you feel that responsible people should use drugs in responsible ways.


--------------------
We are not human beings going through a temporary spiritual experience.

We are spiritual beings going through a temporary human experience.



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OfflineNiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
Female User Gallery

Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
Re: the homeless.. dirty bums or clever bussinessmen? [Re: StonedShroom]
    #2130986 - 11/23/03 08:29 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I'm tempted to go on a very long, very angry rant complete with caps and plenty of expletives. But it's not worth my time.

I'll leave it at this:

You know absolutely nothing about the subject and your comments were utterly ignorant and profane. Like I sad before I know people who were homeless and they certainly don't fit your disgusting arrogant assesment of thier worth. No to a great many of the people currently living on the streets. Even the ones who are there because of a drug habit don't deserve to be belittled like that. Have some compassion, look past the surface and consider that there is always a lot more to the story than you're seeing.


Quote:

StonedShroom said:
Personally I feel that most homeless people bring it on themselves. If you give a homeles person change are they gonna save it? are they gonna invest it into cleaning their clothes? are they gonna buy food with it? are they gonna do anything to better themsleves with it?

NO

They are gonna take it and buy alcohol or drugs. They are gonna take the money that you worked hard for and willingly gave up out of the kindness in your heart to get a high. THEN the taxes that are taken out of your paychecks are used so they can have foodstamps and shelter becuz they choose to use what little money they acquire begging in destructive ways.

I say fuck them. I don't work hard so some bum can get have his crack and eat too.

And whoever was talking about driving a homeless man who claims to have been in nam-that's just a CLAIM. Doesn't mean it actually happened. And if it DID happen-So he found his wife in bed with someone else. Happens everday. He could have gone to counseling. He was evendently well-off. he could have said 'see ya later bitch' and she would have gotten NOTHING cuz she committed adultry and life could have gone on. But he chose to become a drunk. He made the choice to let that happen.

I hate the fact that every two weeks I see hundreds of MY dollars, MY hard-earned HONEST MONEY go towards taxes and then I see low-life scum totally raping the system.




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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: the homeless.. dirty bums or clever bussinessmen? [Re: StonedShroom]
    #2131002 - 11/23/03 08:37 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

StonedShroom said:
OK so since they have an 'addiction' it's ok for them blow our money?



If it's money that I give them, then I don't care what they spend it on.

Quote:

I say invest our money in detox for these scum socially-challanged people and get them off the streets and into stable environments.



I agree, but most people like you don't want their "hard-earned" cash going to helping these "scum" out.

Quote:

I say that in order to receive any type of government assistance they have to pass drug tests or be in some sort of in-patient rehab.



This has been proposed before. But you seriously underestimate the power of drug addiction. Sometimes it takes several tries in order to quit.

Quote:

And why does every feel the need to point out I'm a lesbian everytime I voice an opinion? What now just cuz I'm a lesbian my opinion isn't valid? You all think just just cuz I'm gay I don't have the human right to form an opinion? I can CHOOSE to live a straight 'normal' life just like homeless can choose to better themselves, but if I see a woman and I'm still attratched I didn't CHOOSE that. A homeless person can still CHOOSE whether or not he can spend that $5 i just gave him/her on something to better his/herself or to buy whatever drug of choice.



HOW THE FUCK IS HE GONNA "BETTER HIMSELF" WITH $5?!

Quote:

And if you were gonna spend your money on drugs anyway, then good for you. You earned that money. It's yours to do as you please, but doesn't it bother ANY that some lazy ass who spends his day beggin for change is spending your hard-earned money??



No, cuz you know what? I've got a comfortable, warm bed to go home to, and he doesn't. If I had to sleep in a cardboard box, I'd be trying to get fucked up too.

Quote:

Another difference between you spending money on drugs and a homeless person spending money on drugs is you probably took care of your bills before you went out and got your sack. At least that's what a RESPONSIBLE person should do.



What bills does he have to pay? He sleeps in a cardboard box. He's got two things to worry about: food and drugs. He can't get a job most places cuz no one wants to hire a bum. His only hope for a home is if he finds a friend willing to let him stay with them. Trust me, I've had friends who were homeless before.

Quote:

And since you're on this site, this site that is to 'stop the misinformation about mushrooms' I would assume that you feel that responsible people should use drugs in responsible ways.



Yes, and your point being?...


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineEntelle
wanderer

Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 64
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
Re: the homeless.. dirty bums or clever bussinessmen? [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #2131003 - 11/23/03 08:38 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

NiamhNyx, there is an exception to every rule. I'm sure there are homeless out there who have just had a shitty hand delt to them, and deserve help and forgiveness. There are also scheming homeless who are just trying to drown their sorrows. Now who deserves compassion? They all deserve compassion, but they can also choose to try their best to help themselves. This may not always work, and my heart goes out to those who are trying to get out, and circumstance is not helping. Really tho, the wholw problem points to a greater problem in perception, goals and orientation in our society. Just me personnally, I think this world has too many damn people on it, and if there was less, let's say a tribal sort of society, but still intellectually supportive and developive (is that even a word?) many of our society's most saddening problems would disappear, or at least be less.


--------------------
"Not all those who wander are lost."


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OfflineEntelle
wanderer

Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 64
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
Re: the homeless.. dirty bums or clever bussinessmen? [Re: Entelle]
    #2131012 - 11/23/03 08:40 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

and also, this discussion is getting really combative. Chill guys! no-one is gonna benefit by us getting pissy at each other.


--------------------
"Not all those who wander are lost."


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OfflineStonedShroom
OG shroomerite
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/22/00
Posts: 10,874
Last seen: 4 months, 9 days
Re: the homeless.. dirty bums or clever bussinessmen? [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #2131013 - 11/23/03 08:41 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

you know people who WERE homeless.

WERE homeless.

obviously the people you know do not fit into the category I'm talking about.

I'm not belittling them, I'm just tired of seeing my money be wasted.

You act like these people deserve respect. They don't even respect THEMSELVES so why am I looked down upon when I don't respect them?


--------------------
We are not human beings going through a temporary spiritual experience.

We are spiritual beings going through a temporary human experience.



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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: the homeless.. dirty bums or clever bussinessmen? [Re: StonedShroom]
    #2131021 - 11/23/03 08:45 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

you know people who WERE homeless.

WERE homeless.

obviously the people you know do not fit into the category I'm talking about.



You obviously don't even know what you're talking about. Homelessness is usually a temporary condition, and those who stay in such a condition permanently are most likely unable to work or find shelter. Think about it: why would ANYONE want to stay homeless the rest of their lives?

Quote:

You act like these people deserve respect. They don't even respect THEMSELVES so why am I looked down upon when I don't respect them?



What makes you think they don't respect themselves? Have you talked to all of them? God, you're such a bigot and you don't even realize it.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineEntelle
wanderer

Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 64
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
Re: the homeless.. dirty bums or clever bussinessmen? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2131024 - 11/23/03 08:47 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

silversoul7, follow your own mantra-thingie.
chill man!
everyone is entitled to their own opinion.


--------------------
"Not all those who wander are lost."


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Invisiblemuhurgle
Turtles all theway down

Registered: 10/29/03
Posts: 299
Re: the homeless.. dirty bums or clever bussinessmen? [Re: StonedShroom]
    #2131030 - 11/23/03 08:51 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

They don't even respect THEMSELVES

What's this? DARE propaganda? How do you respect yourself? What is 'you'? How do you know that 'you' deserve respect?

This 'respect yourself' bullshit is a strange American mantra. No wonder you're a nation on prozac and therapy. I don't respect myself, and I'm doing fine.


--------------------
"To make this mundane world sublime
Take half a gram of phanerothyme."

Aldous Huxley


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OfflineStonedShroom
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Registered: 10/22/00
Posts: 10,874
Last seen: 4 months, 9 days
Re: the homeless.. dirty bums or clever bussinessmen? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2131035 - 11/23/03 08:53 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
If it's money that I give them, then I don't care what they spend it on.




what about the money that's taken out of your paycheck that the government just takes without asking if you want it taken out or not?

Quote:


I agree, but most people like you don't want their "hard-earned" cash going to helping these "scum" out.




If i knew 100% of my money would go towards feeding their body, minds and souls and NOT towards feeding their addictions then I wouldn't gripe about it.

Quote:


This has been proposed before. But you seriously underestimate the power of drug addiction. Sometimes it takes several tries in order to quit.




which is why it's most important to get them CLEAN!!


Quote:

HOW THE FUCK IS HE GONNA "BETTER HIMSELF" WITH $5?!




I gave him $5. The a couple people before me gave him $2. the person after me gave him 75 cents. 6 people tossed him a quarter. That's $11.25 in one hour. He's making as much money as me and he doesn't even get taxes taken out of it. Every little bit counts.

Quote:


No, cuz you know what? I've got a comfortable, warm bed to go home to, and he doesn't. If I had to sleep in a cardboard box, I'd be trying to get fucked up too.



I think if I lived in a cardboard box i would have that much more incentive to make myself better, to help myself. I think I would say 'dammit, I like sleeping in a warm bed better than I like getting high'

Quote:


What bills does he have to pay? He sleeps in a cardboard box. He's got two things to worry about: food and drugs. He can't get a job most places cuz no one wants to hire a bum. His only hope for a home is if he finds a friend willing to let him stay with them. Trust me, I've had friends who were homeless before.




HE HAS NO BILLS that's my POINT. If I sat out on the street for a week averaging 11.25 an hour you bet I'd use that little bit of money to get someplace warm to sleep or a nice change of clothes to go to a job interview

Quote:

And since you're on this site, this site that is to 'stop the misinformation about mushrooms' I would assume that you feel that responsible people should use drugs in responsible ways.



Yes, and your point being?...




my point is these are not responsible people and they are not using drugs responsibly


--------------------
We are not human beings going through a temporary spiritual experience.

We are spiritual beings going through a temporary human experience.



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OfflineStonedShroom
OG shroomerite
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Registered: 10/22/00
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Re: the homeless.. dirty bums or clever bussinessmen? [Re: muhurgle]
    #2131057 - 11/23/03 09:03 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

It's not DARE propaganda

if anything it's some phrase that schools make up to help instill positive action into kids.... But why is it such a bad thing to teach kids to be positive? They're too young to be told 'meh, the world sucks. 50% of you will be divorced. Another 25% of you won't even finish high school.' GOD don't be so pessimistic.

ANYway back on the topic... self-respect is NOT American war against drugs shit... isn't it taught to some degree in just about every belief system?


--------------------
We are not human beings going through a temporary spiritual experience.

We are spiritual beings going through a temporary human experience.



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OfflineNiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
Female User Gallery

Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
Re: the homeless.. dirty bums or clever bussinessmen? [Re: Entelle]
    #2131059 - 11/23/03 09:04 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Entelle said:
NiamhNyx, there is an exception to every rule. I'm sure there are homeless out there who have just had a shitty hand delt to them, and deserve help and forgiveness. There are also scheming homeless who are just trying to drown their sorrows. Now who deserves compassion? They all deserve compassion, but they can also choose to try their best to help themselves. This may not always work, and my heart goes out to those who are trying to get out, and circumstance is not helping. Really tho, the wholw problem points to a greater problem in perception, goals and orientation in our society. Just me personnally, I think this world has too many damn people on it, and if there was less, let's say a tribal sort of society, but still intellectually supportive and developive (is that even a word?) many of our society's most saddening problems would disappear, or at least be less.




I completely agree with you.

And as far as this argument goes I think Silversoul has pretty much covered what I would have said myself.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: the homeless.. dirty bums or clever bussinessmen? [Re: StonedShroom]
    #2131063 - 11/23/03 09:06 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

StonedShroom said:
what about the money that's taken out of your paycheck that the government just takes without asking if you want it taken out or not?



Welfare? Sure, there's lots of people who abuse the system, but here's a little news flash for you: Not all homeless people are on welfare, and it just shows your blind hatred for these people to assume that they are.

Quote:

If i knew 100% of my money would go towards feeding their body, minds and souls and NOT towards feeding their addictions then I wouldn't gripe about it.



But lots of people do, and that's why it's not being done.

Quote:

which is why it's most important to get them CLEAN!!



Fine, but in the mean-time, why not get them something to eat?

Quote:

I gave him $5. The a couple people before me gave him $2. the person after me gave him 75 cents. 6 people tossed him a quarter. That's $11.25 in one hour. He's making as much money as me and he doesn't even get taxes taken out of it. Every little bit counts.



Oh, well then I guess he can just go buy a house with that money, can't he?

Quote:

I think if I lived in a cardboard box i would have that much more incentive to make myself better, to help myself. I think I would say 'dammit, I like sleeping in a warm bed better than I like getting high'



So, how's he supposed to find a warm bed? Get a job? I think I already explained the problem with that.

Quote:

HE HAS NO BILLS that's my POINT. If I sat out on the street for a week averaging 11.25 an hour you bet I'd use that little bit of money to get someplace warm to sleep or a nice change of clothes to go to a job interview



First of all, I seriously doubt most of them are averaging 11.25 an hour. Second of all, I'm a college student from an upper-middle class family, and it's hard enough for ME to find a job. How do you expect these people to do it? And finding a warm place to sleep? I'm still reliant on my parents, and can't imagine renting an apartment with a minimum wage job, let alone none at all.

Quote:

my point is these are not responsible people and they are not using drugs responsibly



So they made a mistake, and it's hard for them to get out of it. What, you've never made a mistake in your life? People who've made mistakes don't deserve a second chance?


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleAdom
Totally Nude
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Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 10,877
Loc: Way Up North
Re: the homeless.. dirty bums or clever bussinessmen? [Re: StonedShroom]
    #2131066 - 11/23/03 09:08 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I've met alot of homeless people who never use drugs or alcohol. Alot. Alot of them probably live more in a week than most do in a year. Not all homeless are bums/beggers.


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OfflineEntelle
wanderer

Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 64
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
Re: the homeless.. dirty bums or clever bussinessmen? [Re: Adom]
    #2131076 - 11/23/03 09:13 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

my point exactly. there are no fixed rules or definitions to homeless, except to be without a home. im sure some people choose to do so, but not in the conventional sense of homeless. think nomadic tribes. i think there is a bit of arguing over completely different things. are you guys more interested in arguing? or in having a conversation? no-one is right, no-one is wrong, we all just see things in this world, and this includes me.


--------------------
"Not all those who wander are lost."


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OfflineStonedShroom
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Re: the homeless.. dirty bums or clever bussinessmen? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2131086 - 11/23/03 09:21 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Welfare? Sure, there's lots of people who abuse the system, but here's a little news flash for you: Not all homeless people are on welfare, and it just shows your blind hatred for these people to assume that they are.




I don't have blind hatred towards these people. I'm just a little upset that they abuse a system that's meant to help them

Quote:


But lots of people do, and that's why it's not being done.




it's not being done cuz we gripe about it? So we're supposed to just sit here and quetly let them steal our money and maybe one day someone will be like 'oh you know what? maybe should being that with the money instead of this'?

Quote:


Fine, but in the mean-time, why not get them something to eat?




how long is this 'mean-time' gonna last? I mean we've had a homeless problem for what? At least 21 years, as long as I've been alive.

Quote:


Oh, well then I guess he can just go buy a house with that money, can't he?




no. but he can pay something called RENT.

Quote:


So, how's he supposed to find a warm bed? Get a job? I think I already explained the problem with that.




it's a viscious cycle. cant get a job cuz no one will hire him. no one will hire him cuz he doesn't look presentable. he doesn't look presentable cuz he doesn't have a job. somewhere the chain has to break and changes need to be made...

Quote:


First of all, I seriously doubt most of them are averaging 11.25 an hour. Second of all, I'm a college student from an upper-middle class family, and it's hard enough for ME to find a job. How do you expect these people to do it? And finding a warm place to sleep? I'm still reliant on my parents, and can't imagine renting an apartment with a minimum wage job, let alone none at all.




ok so I don't know what it's like to be homeless. well guess what? you don't know what it's like being independant. Maybe once you get out and struggle and work 12 hour shifts waiting tables for $2.13 an hour just to pay rent you would understand why I think these people are lazy. I fuckin bit the bullet and worked my ass off, why can't they? You start off on the bottom and work your way up. Now I have a good job that pays more in two weeks than used to make in two months. Everyone struggles

Quote:

So they made a mistake, and it's hard for them to get out of it. What, you've never made a mistake in your life? People who've made mistakes don't deserve a second chance?




yes they deserve a second chance. maybe even a third or fourth or 20th chance. whatever gets them off the streets... but that has got to BEGIN with them actually putting effort into it


--------------------
We are not human beings going through a temporary spiritual experience.

We are spiritual beings going through a temporary human experience.



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