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DaveyJones

Registered: 01/26/15
Posts: 99
Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
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Trouble with bulk spawn..
#21292876 - 02/18/15 10:25 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Hey how's it going everyone.. So I spawned two tubs about nine days ago along with one other tub about 5 or 6 days ago. Each tub has 2 quarts of spawn and 5 quarts of substrate. The substrate has a good moisture content, made sure it was field capacity, but I'm worried that I may have added something that made it hard to colonize on. I used coir/verm/gypsum/castings. I didn't think the worm castings would be an issue especially if used in small amounts but I guess there's a chance that it's not helping. I pasteurized using RR's method as well. I guess it may be helpful to check the ph because I may have thrown that off too.
I've taken a couple peeks over the past little bit and it doesn't really seem like its colonizing at all. Some grains on the side are visible and do not seem to be recovering really either.. I also think I got a whiff of something interesting which makes me even more concerned. It was a sorta sweet rotten kinda smell I believe but I could be exaggerating. I might go back soon and confirm the smell. Any help would be great. Thanks everyone
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Psilicon
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Re: Trouble with bulk spawn.. [Re: DaveyJones]
#21292880 - 02/18/15 10:27 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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The smell and the slow recovery are both signs of a bacteria problem, but it could be from either the spawn or the substrate. Which pasteurization process did you mean? RR has had a couple.
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DaveyJones

Registered: 01/26/15
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Re: Trouble with bulk spawn.. [Re: Psilicon]
#21293083 - 02/18/15 11:16 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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I loaded quart jars into the pc and checked the temp with a meat therm. I thought I did a good job at that and then my spawn jars seemed to be clean as well. The first set of jars I had to shake pretty intensely because I didn't have anything to hit them on, so they sort of ended up bruised but smelled like mushrooms forsure. Then next two jars I broke up on the carpet at first so they weren't as beaten up but I think that tub has the smell as well. They're all colonizing at about 65 F to 75 F
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Psilicon
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Re: Trouble with bulk spawn.. [Re: DaveyJones]
#21293236 - 02/18/15 11:55 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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How long did you pasteurize them for, and at what temps? It doesn't have anything to do with how you broke the grains up.
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DaveyJones

Registered: 01/26/15
Posts: 99
Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
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Re: Trouble with bulk spawn.. [Re: Psilicon]
#21293313 - 02/18/15 12:13 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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I know I was just considering whether they were entirely clean or not. I boiled the jars until the inside reached 140 then turned the heat off. The temp peaked at about 170 for 20 minutes or so. I let them sit in that margin of temperature for an hour and took the jars out.
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silverstem
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Re: Trouble with bulk spawn.. [Re: DaveyJones]
#21293442 - 02/18/15 12:40 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
DaveyJones said: It was a sorta sweet rotten kinda smell I believe but I could be exaggerating.
i would smell it as soon as possible sounds like bacteria. also how much time did you allow for the sub to cool down before adding spawn?
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Psilicon
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Re: Trouble with bulk spawn.. [Re: DaveyJones]
#21293462 - 02/18/15 12:44 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
DaveyJones said: I know I was just considering whether they were entirely clean or not. I boiled the jars until the inside reached 140 then turned the heat off. The temp peaked at about 170 for 20 minutes or so. I let them sit in that margin of temperature for an hour and took the jars out.
This temperature was measured in the center or at the edges?
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DaveyJones

Registered: 01/26/15
Posts: 99
Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
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Re: Trouble with bulk spawn.. [Re: Psilicon]
#21293506 - 02/18/15 12:53 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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I waited a couple of hours, until the jars weren't really warm to the touch anymore. And the temp was measured at the center.
If it's smelling that way should I just toss it all out? Container and all?
Edited by DaveyJones (02/18/15 12:53 PM)
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Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


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Re: Trouble with bulk spawn.. [Re: DaveyJones]
#21293522 - 02/18/15 12:58 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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My guess is that your outside got way too hot, up in the 190F-200F range, which is generally what happens when you boil until your center goes to 170F. This killed way too many of your thermophiles, and the castings have now been colonized by something less pleasant. If you want to properly pasteurize, believe it or not you should be killing the heat at 105F-110F in the center, then covering it and monitoring. You may need to do another brief heat later on if you don't cover the pot.
If the smell is enough to bother you, yeah, toss it out. If not, keep an eye out for trich, because stinky bacteria are thriving at room temp, and because of that they are often a little tougher to overcome than the friendly thermophiles you typically want. When mycelium are weakened by a struggle they can succumb to the green a lot more quickly.
Of course, I could be wrong and it could come from your spawn.
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DaveyJones

Registered: 01/26/15
Posts: 99
Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
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Re: Trouble with bulk spawn.. [Re: Psilicon]
#21293585 - 02/18/15 01:09 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Okay well that makes sense.. So I've got this big tub with quite a small spawn ratio that is colonizing rather slowly. How long would it be before I see any results? And even if that happened am I likely to just obtain more unwanted organisms than good ones at this point?
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Psilicon
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Re: Trouble with bulk spawn.. [Re: DaveyJones]
#21293598 - 02/18/15 01:12 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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No, big tubs with small spawn ratios colonizing slowly aren't necessarily going to fail. It could just be cold at your place.
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DaveyJones

Registered: 01/26/15
Posts: 99
Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
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Re: Trouble with bulk spawn.. [Re: Psilicon]
#21293625 - 02/18/15 01:18 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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It is pretty cold here most of the time not gonna lie. Well I guess I might just leave them until I see anything going on in there, good or bad... If the tub pulls trough and I get it to fruit are those safe to eat as well?
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Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


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Re: Trouble with bulk spawn.. [Re: DaveyJones]
#21293633 - 02/18/15 01:21 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Don't eat anything with mold growing directly on it. But if you see a single mushroom in a sea of green, you can safely eat it. But your sporeload is going to be through the roof and growing will probably be somewhat tougher for you in the future.
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DaveyJones

Registered: 01/26/15
Posts: 99
Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
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Re: Trouble with bulk spawn.. [Re: Psilicon]
#21293703 - 02/18/15 01:35 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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You say my future would be hindered, is that because I would be hosting all of the bacteria or mold in my growing area?.. So long story short if I want to continue growing and actually do it good with out any bs then I should just toss them, right?... I just inoculated some jars the other day anyways so I'm not really worried about starting again. I'd rather play it safe
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silverstem
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Registered: 10/12/13
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Re: Trouble with bulk spawn.. [Re: DaveyJones]
#21293733 - 02/18/15 01:40 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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if its possible remove it from your growing area. if you are unsure weather or not its contaminated keep the lid on for a couple of days and dont open it in your grow space. next time around try just coir/verm for a bulk sub but just like van said you most likely killed the thermophiles.
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Psilicon
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Re: Trouble with bulk spawn.. [Re: silverstem]
#21293772 - 02/18/15 01:48 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Alternately, you can post pictures here and we can look for trichoderma for you.
But yes, the problem arises because not only is trichoderma a formidable contaminant, but it can also live entirely parasitically on living cubensis mycelium. Strong, healthy mycelium can fight it off, but weakened mycelium of course has trouble doing this. But the greater your sporeload, the more likely you are to have trichoderma get a foothold somewhere, on, say, a single hypha that's been dehydrated a little bit because it's closer to your tub's FAE holes, and boom! It grows quickly throughout your substrate in a matter of just a few days, sporulates and then the cycle is complete.
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DaveyJones

Registered: 01/26/15
Posts: 99
Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
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Re: Trouble with bulk spawn.. [Re: Psilicon]
#21293928 - 02/18/15 02:31 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Alright well I isolated the tubs from the growing area and I'm gonna go examine them more thoroughly in my garage soon. If they seem questionable I may just throw them away because I'd rather start off clean than have any issues especially if it means risking any future grows. Thanks for everyone's help!
Probably not going to use anything but coir verm and gypsum for my first couple tries. And maybe take it easy on the pasturizing temp as well. Should I be taking the temperature from the side of the jar next time? Just as extra precaution...
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Psilicon
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Re: Trouble with bulk spawn.. [Re: DaveyJones]
#21293979 - 02/18/15 02:41 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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When I pasteurize a substrate in jars, I go to 105-110F in the center, and then I take it out and I check the sides. Usually it's already at 140F there. Then I check a few other jars in both the center and the sides, then I cap it with my themometer stuck into the center of the jar with the alarm set for 140F. When it goes off, I check the sides again to make sure it's not too hot. If it is, I'll take it out of the bath completely for a few minutes, but that's seldom. If it isn't, I'll start the timer and check back every 20 minutes or so to make sure it's still in the range. If this didn't make sense I can try again.
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DaveyJones

Registered: 01/26/15
Posts: 99
Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
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Re: Trouble with bulk spawn.. [Re: Psilicon]
#21294027 - 02/18/15 02:52 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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That makes sense forsure. I'll have to be more cautious throughout the process. I guess my method was sort of careless compared to how you just explained haha. Thank you so much for all the help!
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Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


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Re: Trouble with bulk spawn.. [Re: DaveyJones]
#21294035 - 02/18/15 02:53 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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You're very welcome. And best of luck.
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