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OfflinePsylocybe
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Registered: 10/06/10
Posts: 145
Loc: Scotland
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
stuck on spawning wbs
    #21286408 - 02/17/15 04:15 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

So these jars have been sitting around for a good 2 weeks and are only just now starting to smell/look mouldy but I don't think they'll be growing good mould. There are 12 of them so I must consistently be getting something wrong.

I followed doc34s wbs tek, but each time I feel like the wbs comes out of the PC smelling burnt, I'm not sure if that's normal or not. I keep the heat fairly low for about 90 minutes. They always stink coming out the PC

http://imgur.com/PbzCJZg
http://imgur.com/KIHzasr
http://imgur.com/mOyfRAj

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OfflineRideAllBears
rawr


Registered: 08/09/12
Posts: 166
Last seen: 9 years, 2 days
Re: stuck on spawning wbs [Re: Psylocybe]
    #21286421 - 02/17/15 04:26 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Those luck very wet after two weeks. It's possible you have a bacterial contamination. That white part doesnt look right to me at all. Also, trich is white before it turns green. But wetness normally means bacteria in my experience.

Can you smell something cidery coming from them?


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OfflinePsylocybe
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Registered: 10/06/10
Posts: 145
Loc: Scotland
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
Re: stuck on spawning wbs [Re: RideAllBears]
    #21286446 - 02/17/15 04:43 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

I think that particular batch of 3 was just rushed and not dried well enough. The rest are ok but so far fruitless

I don't know about cidery, just really rank

Edited by Psylocybe (02/17/15 04:47 AM)

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Invisiblegrainbrain
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Registered: 05/11/11
Posts: 2,626
Re: stuck on spawning wbs [Re: Psylocybe]
    #21286457 - 02/17/15 04:49 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

The only issue I have with the Doc34 WBS tek is the rinse after simmer.  I prefer to steam dry before loading the jars.

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OfflineRideAllBears
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Registered: 08/09/12
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Re: stuck on spawning wbs [Re: grainbrain]
    #21286584 - 02/17/15 06:29 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

If it smells rank, toss it. You have a bacterial contamination.

You will only want to smell fresh steamed grains at the beginning, and afterwards, a mushroomy smell like champignons.


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OfflineJudPie
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Registered: 02/04/15
Posts: 68
Loc: At my table, playing D&D
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
Re: stuck on spawning wbs [Re: RideAllBears]
    #21286621 - 02/17/15 07:02 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

RideAllBears said:
If it smells rank, toss it. You have a bacterial contamination.

You will only want to smell fresh steamed grains at the beginning, and afterwards, a mushroomy smell like champignons.




This. 1000X this. I recently got back into the hobby after 10 years or so and my first attempt at grain jars ended in dismal failure for 4 out of 8 of them. Unless you smell nothing but mushrooms, toss em. When in doubt, throw it out friend. Lots of really bad shit can grow on grains, and can cause respiratory issues...

(at least for my wife - she just beat cancer, so she's succeptable to just about anything, so perhaps I'm just paranoid. Always better to be safe than sorry)

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OfflinePsylocybe
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Re: stuck on spawning wbs [Re: JudPie] * 1
    #21287861 - 02/17/15 12:42 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Steam dry? How can you steam something dry?

You think I burnt them then? They stunk a bit burnt at the beginning and now they just stink in general

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Offlineverytastycheese
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Registered: 11/11/14
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Re: stuck on spawning wbs [Re: Psylocybe]
    #21288001 - 02/17/15 01:14 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

When the grains are boiled they come out hot. The moisture evaporates off them in the form of steam. That's what he means by steam dry. Rinsing them afterwards cools the grains and slows this process.

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OfflineJudPie
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Registered: 02/04/15
Posts: 68
Loc: At my table, playing D&D
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Re: stuck on spawning wbs [Re: verytastycheese]
    #21288227 - 02/17/15 02:00 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

verytastycheese said:
When the grains are boiled they come out hot. The moisture evaporates off them in the form of steam. That's what he means by steam dry. Rinsing them afterwards cools the grains and slows this process.




I noticed the same. I do rinse afterwards, but I do it with scalding hot tap water. And still, IIRC it does state that not a drop of water should come out of the colander after letting them drain for 25 mins. It helps to move the grains around during the draining IME.

To make sure, 1st after draining n rinsing, wait 20-30 mins & shake the colander vigorously with the grains in it to make sure there's no excess water. 2nd step is to place a few grains on some TP and if after a min or two if there's no wet spots you should be all good.

Please take what I say with a grain of salt. I'm not a 'trusted cultivator', and having said that, they are the best source for rock solid info.

Also, check the Noob Forum - it may be brand spanking new, but so far it's quickly become my go to source for good information.

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OfflinePsylocybe
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Registered: 10/06/10
Posts: 145
Loc: Scotland
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
Re: stuck on spawning wbs [Re: JudPie]
    #21291938 - 02/18/15 03:22 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Do you guys think I got the grain consistency wrong? Too many grains burst? Even then though I had slightly different consistencies each time and all of them seemed to fail or just not spawn at all.

The room was kept at a consistent 20C (I know slightly higher is optimal - I was aiming for about 23-24 degrees but that's as high as my heating would go)

I have all the materials to make a TiT incubator but many said it was pointless and more of a contam risk.


One more thing - I understand that the box in which the jars are kept should be sealed and sterile, but these boxes aren't exactly totally airtight? Does the place in which they're kept have to be just as sterile? I keep them in my cleaned wardrobe along with clean clothes (I sometimes hang up worn clothes to be reworn there as well) I went over the area pretty well with sugar soap but I didn't totally sterilize it/blast it with Dettol or anything. I just wanna figure out where the contam came from.

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OfflineRideAllBears
rawr


Registered: 08/09/12
Posts: 166
Last seen: 9 years, 2 days
Re: stuck on spawning wbs [Re: Psylocybe]
    #21291967 - 02/18/15 03:55 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

You probably had problems with endospores, which are basically dormant bacteria that sometimes survive the PC. That's why it's important to rinse WBS, then soak it for a while to activate it endospores, and then rinse it off, change water, then boil, then dry, then load them up.

Was this multispore? It is also possible that your syringe is contaminated.

Some brands of WBS are dirtier than others from what I've heard. I never learned how to do grains properly with them, but I had immediate success with rye and wheat berries.

Try this tek to the T next time, it's what finally made me not fail.

http://www.mushroomvideos.com/Grain-Preparation

It will work with WBS, I'm pretty sure.

Also, did you use a filter like polyfill or tyvek filters? Those really help. Just cut out tyvek circles using your lids as a mold, and put it between your lid and ring before the PC. It will not melt.


--------------------

Edited by RideAllBears (02/18/15 03:57 AM)

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OfflinePsylocybe
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Re: stuck on spawning wbs [Re: RideAllBears]
    #21292043 - 02/18/15 04:54 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Balls, I just soaked a new batch without rinsing it, does this matter much? Obviously I was going to rinse it to hell after the soak

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Invisibleblindingleaf
blue collar underworld
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Registered: 07/19/13
Posts: 22,008
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Trusted Cultivator
Re: stuck on spawning wbs [Re: Psylocybe]
    #21292057 - 02/18/15 05:05 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

u can rinse after the soak.
i keep uninnoculated jars in a tub, but not inoculated jars, they just go on a shelf.
too many burst grains is bad.  with WBS, i always had to add a lot more gypsum than rye/wheat/other because it was sticky. 
after the overnight soak, don't simmer it, just heat the pot of water till its steaming, and stir occasionally.  in about 15 minutes it should be good.  better to be a little less hydrated than a little more.  dump into strainer and stir it for at least half hour or so.  u want all the grains to be as dry as possible before loading into jars.


--------------------
A few thoughts on cultivation
MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!!

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts

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OfflinePsylocybe
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Loc: Scotland
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
Re: stuck on spawning wbs [Re: blindingleaf]
    #21293463 - 02/18/15 12:44 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Gypsum in WBS? The tek I used didn't say anything about gypsum. I don't have any just now - does it make a difference?

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OfflinePsylocybe
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Registered: 10/06/10
Posts: 145
Loc: Scotland
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
Re: stuck on spawning wbs [Re: RideAllBears]
    #21293608 - 02/18/15 01:14 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

According to that video above "You can allow your pressure cooker to cool overnight there's no reason to open it up while it's still hot".

I've been taking them out of the PC straight away and cooling the jars in a tub overnight separately as I thought this just "made sense" considering otherwise the jars are essentially being steeped in warm, stale water (surely a bacteria hazard??) in a PC that's off the heat. I assume my logic was wrong? I'm confused

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OfflineRideAllBears
rawr


Registered: 08/09/12
Posts: 166
Last seen: 9 years, 2 days
Re: stuck on spawning wbs [Re: Psylocybe]
    #21293780 - 02/18/15 01:50 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

First of all, you don't put too much water in the pressure cooker. Up to the bottom of the jars at most.

I let them cool for a few minutes, then take them out and shake them, and put them somewhere high up until they are cool enough to inoculate.


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OfflinePsylocybe
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Loc: Scotland
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
Re: stuck on spawning wbs [Re: RideAllBears]
    #21293838 - 02/18/15 02:09 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Does it matter if you put too much? The first time I used the PC I burnt the PC by putting "just enough" water in but leaving the heat too high (medium heat on the hottest hob - at the time I thought this was normal but all gas cookers are different. Now I put it on the lowest heat on the hottest hob but some water still escapes as steam. I don't wanna have to try to return another PC that's been burnt to a crisp)

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OfflineRideAllBears
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Last seen: 9 years, 2 days
Re: stuck on spawning wbs [Re: Psylocybe]
    #21294365 - 02/18/15 04:11 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

I wouldnt put anything past at most touching the bottom of the jars. But I mean, I did elevate mine with rings or a rack.

Just make sure to turn the stove down once you reach 15psi, medium low should maintain it and not cause melting stuff.


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Invisibleblindingleaf
blue collar underworld
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Registered: 07/19/13
Posts: 22,008
Loc: sub-surface unseen
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Re: stuck on spawning wbs [Re: RideAllBears]
    #21294405 - 02/18/15 04:18 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

gypsum is optional yes, but if ur having sticky/clumping issues, u should use it for sure, and for me, WBS was always clumpy or sticky w/o it.
water can touch ur jars, its fine.  it won't affect sterilization.
i always leave my jars/bags in PC overnight, its cleaner in ur PC than in ur house.


--------------------
A few thoughts on cultivation
MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!!

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts

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Invisiblegrainbrain
Tribalistic

Registered: 05/11/11
Posts: 2,626
Re: stuck on spawning wbs [Re: Psylocybe]
    #21297689 - 02/19/15 09:10 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Psylocybe said:
Does it matter if you put too much? The first time I used the PC I burnt the PC by putting "just enough" water in but leaving the heat too high (medium heat on the hottest hob - at the time I thought this was normal but all gas cookers are different. Now I put it on the lowest heat on the hottest hob but some water still escapes as steam. I don't wanna have to try to return another PC that's been burnt to a crisp)





Use what the manufacturer recommends.

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