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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: If light is so important [Re: Mr. Alien]
    #21285307 - 02/16/15 08:17 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Something evolving with the sun as its source of light does not necessarily mean that the sun will always be the best source of light, or that mimicking it is the best goal.  What if mushrooms are from some other planet with a blue sun and they respond better to a spectrum that our sun doesn't quite cover?  Not every creature on this planet is perfectly in sync with everything around it.  There are always deficits and imperfections.


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Invisibleblackdust
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Re: If light is so important [Re: Inocuole]
    #21285337 - 02/16/15 08:25 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

PinPornProducer said:
No where in that article does it say cubensis. Also read the last part of that article about some species not needing light to fruit




From the GGMM pg. 120


Quote:

7. Photosensitivity The sensitivity of
mushrooms to light is surprising to most who
have heard that mushrooms like to grow in the
dark. In fact, most of the gourmet and medicinal
mushrooms require, and favorably react to,
light. The development of mushrooms is affected
by light in two ways. Initially, primordia
form when exposed to light. Even though thousands
of primordia can form in response to brief
light exposure, these primordia will not develop
into normal looking mushrooms unless light is
sustained. Without secondary exposure to light
post primordia form ation, Oyster mushrooms,
in particular, malform. Their stems elongate
and the caps remain undeveloped. This response
is similar to that seen in high CO2
environments. In both cases, long stems are
produced. This response makes sense if one
considers that mushrooms must be elevated
above ground for the caps and subsequently
forming spores to be released. Oyster, Shiitake
and Reishi all demonstrate strong photosensitivity.



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InvisibleMr. Alien
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Re: If light is so important [Re: Inocuole]
    #21285367 - 02/16/15 08:31 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

double post. oops

Edited by Mr. Alien (02/16/15 08:36 PM)

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InvisibleMr. Alien
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Re: If light is so important [Re: Inocuole]
    #21285369 - 02/16/15 08:31 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Fungi have been on earth for 1.3 billions years and plants followed 600 million years later. They already had enough time to evolve with our sun.

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InvisibleMr. Alien
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Re: If light is so important [Re: Mr. Alien]
    #21285399 - 02/16/15 08:35 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

I won't be surprised if fungi came on an asteroid 1.3 billions years ago.

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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: If light is so important [Re: Mr. Alien]
    #21285401 - 02/16/15 08:36 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

But apparently humans haven't had long enough to evolve to use the edit button, amirite?

Also I wouldn't be surprised if new fungi came on an asteroid tomorrow.  Spores should be able to survive in space.

Something evolving doesn't require that it becomes selective to specific conditions.  :shrug:

Replicating nature is lame.  Just my opinion though.

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InvisibleMr. Alien
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Re: If light is so important [Re: Inocuole]
    #21285416 - 02/16/15 08:37 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

I did, but this stupid beaner internet is so slow that drives the fuck out of me.

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OfflinetaGyo
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Re: If light is so important [Re: Inocuole]
    #21285419 - 02/16/15 08:38 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Inocuole said:
But apparently humans haven't had long enough to evolve to use the edit button, amirite?



:sunspots:

:lmafo:


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InvisibleMr. Alien
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Re: If light is so important [Re: Inocuole]
    #21285461 - 02/16/15 08:51 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Inocuole said:


Replicating nature is lame.  Just my opinion though.





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OfflineMonty514
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Re: If light is so important [Re: Mr. Alien]
    #21285685 - 02/16/15 10:02 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Mr. Alien said:
I won't be surprised if fungi came on an asteroid 1.3 billions years ago.




Panspermia is very plausible.

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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: If light is so important [Re: Monty514]
    #21285872 - 02/16/15 10:54 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

I'm almost positive that's the case.  The earth can't be the original source of life, it doesn't make any sense.  That said, I think it's a possibility that the increase in diversity of species of microorganisms over time may be as much a result of cosmic debris than of evolution.

But hell, if life could just appear out of nowhere, which it seems like it must have done at least once, then I guess origin is a non-issue.  I would be most interested (And in a way, pleased) to learn that certain atoms have an affinity to becoming drawn together to form the very most basic life form, which is coded with what it needs to evolve into everything else.

Fucking mushrooms man.

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OfflineMushroom_J
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Re: If light is so important [Re: Inocuole]
    #21286177 - 02/17/15 12:29 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Inocuole said:
Replicating nature is lame.  Just my opinion though.




Anyone who actually cracks the code on wood lovers i think will have to replicate nature.... with grocery store items lol.


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: If light is so important [Re: Mushroom_J]
    #21286260 - 02/17/15 01:18 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

I think it's a good starting point to replicate nature, up until we're doing better than nature, at which point, I think it's alright to let our own scientific exploration take the reins.

We are not quite there with all woodlovers.


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: If light is so important [Re: Inocuole]
    #21286287 - 02/17/15 01:45 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

I just put two mono's under a 600w hps and ~300w worth of LED's. :strokebeard:

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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: If light is so important [Re: krypto2000]
    #21286358 - 02/17/15 03:16 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

I can't see the HPS being good for it... but that's just me.


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Invisiblemustangbob3
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Posts: 1,685
Re: If light is so important [Re: amp244]
    #21286359 - 02/17/15 03:17 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

amp244 said:
P. Cubensis is said to be a photosensitive species, and experiments have been done long ago to substantiate this.

"THE EFFECT OF LIGHT UPON BASIDIOCARP INITIATION IN PSILOCYBE CUBENSIS." Mycologia. Vol. 72, No. 1. (Jan. - Feb., 1980), pp. 136-142.
Abstract: Formation of basidiocarp initials in Psilocibe cubensis occurred only when cultures were illuminated. Short durations of light (0.0025 sec of xenon-arc flash) were sufficient for initiation. Light-induced initiation was saturated at a dose of 0.345 x l04 ergs/cm2 at 460 nm. UV and blue wavelengths of 370, 440, and 460 nm were the most effective. Green and red wavelengths greater than 510 nm were ineffective.

Here is the PDF detailing the experiments and findings:
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/3759426?sid=21105879857263&uid=4&uid=2&uid=3739936&uid=3739256

It is interesting to note that the exposure time necessary to stimulate pin-head initiation was merely half a millisecond per day. Perhaps people who claim that they have successfully fruited P. Cubensis completely bereft of light, may have unwittingly provided it, albeit to a minute extent.




this is what PPP did basically and showed it to be true!!

Quote:

I just put two mono's under a 600w hps and ~300w worth of LED's. :strokebeard:





if the distance of lights is equal then i would say it is agood experiment!!

if i had to guess based on info gleaned in this thread alone, i would say it is likely the one under hps(higher intensity) wont grow as tall but will be more dense and they will mature and open the caps earlier. i wonder about weight difference too as early maturation may equal less weight but they may make up for it by being more dense?

please post results!! very interesting to see.

EDIT: Been talking to my mentor and my previous theory about light may slow/reduce mannitols and slow influx of water into the mushroom to control upward growth before switching to spore release functions is wrong
i was shown this document from an experiment at cranfield university- https://dspace.lib.cranfield.ac.uk/handle/1826/797

there was not decrease in mannitols in any part of the mushroom body in relation to different stages of mushroom formation and growth.

Quote:

Mannitol was the main polyol detected in all the sporophore tissues but there were no significant differences between the stages of sporophore development indicating that there was no change in the levels of mannitol.



Edited by mustangbob3 (02/17/15 03:46 AM)

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OfflineMushroom_J
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Re: If light is so important [Re: Inocuole]
    #21286385 - 02/17/15 03:45 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Inocuole said:
I think it's a good starting point to replicate nature, up until we're doing better than nature, at which point, I think it's alright to let our own scientific exploration take the reins.

We are not quite there with all woodlovers.




I don't think we're doing it better than nature at all.
No one can get mushrooms to propagate themselves indoors continuously.
By taking them out of nature we have to go to the ends of the earth
and take the most careful steps just to get them to grow.
Nature doesn't have these problems.

Mother nature is superior.


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Invisiblemustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist
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Re: If light is so important [Re: Mushroom_J]
    #21286389 - 02/17/15 03:47 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

:whathesaid:

its like if we took humans and put them in a 'bubble' we would need all sorts of life support systems that nature would have taken care of for us!

same for mushrooms!!

nature is something to emulate and strive to acheive for as it clearly works better.

even with all the science and inventions we have not inproved on nature when growing plants indoors and all hydroponic/indoor growers try to relicate nature as close as possible with the exception of nutrient delivery.
why should we presume we need to perfect/ out do nature with mushrooms?

they extract air to mantain temps and have fresh air like nature.
grow lights try to replicate the sun s frequencys and intensity as closely as possible.
light cycles imitate the season
introduction of beneficial microbes.... the list is endless

all striving to replicate nature not out do it :smile:

Edited by mustangbob3 (02/17/15 03:58 AM)

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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: If light is so important [Re: mustangbob3]
    #21286391 - 02/17/15 03:54 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

The balance that nature provides is superior for something to be able to live an existence of uncertainty.  Large mycelial masses can sustain themselves pretty effectively for years or decades but consider how many spores germinate in the wild vs the ones we germinate ourselves.

Consider how much contaminant competition a good grower's mycelium has to deal with.  Or how often nutrient deficits might come up in a home grow.

There's a lot of reasons I think home grown mushrooms are the shit.  Being cleaner and free of bugs is just the tip of the iceberg.

We absolutely can't say that for a lot of other species, but for cubes?  I think we can safely say we've more or less mastered their cultivation.  How much easier could it POSSIBLY get?  There's gotta be at least one popular tek on this site that you like enough to run it in bulk with minimal effort.


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Invisiblemustangbob3
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Re: If light is so important [Re: Inocuole]
    #21286394 - 02/17/15 04:01 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

There's a lot of reasons I think home grown mushrooms are the shit.  Being cleaner and free of bugs is just the tip of the iceberg.




yes but imagine being able to grow as successful as nature but with the benefits of indoor. best of both worlds and that really what we are talking about.

and i dont think were talking what is easier or best for us but what the mushroom would concider easier and best in conjuction with our methods :smile:

optimal for the mushrooms best growth not optimal in regard to what we want:smile:


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Edited by mustangbob3 (02/17/15 04:04 AM)

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