Home | Community | Message Board

Magic-Mushrooms-Shop.com
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]
InvisiblePenelope_Tree
Shamanic Panic
 User Gallery


Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 8,535
Loc: magic sugarcastle
Dialogue vs debate
    #21282978 - 02/16/15 01:44 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Which is more important? Where does the balance lie?

To me, it can be parsed as such: dialogue is constructive activity, and debate is a destructive one. That isn't to say debate doesn't have its role; we all know the saying, "there is no creation without destruction."  Too much agreement without checks & balances leads to cancer. Too much discordance, and we have dis-ease amongst ourselves and our community (ahem). Both are equally important within a larger context and should be given value as they relate to the larger community as a whole.

The teacher appears when the student is ready, and the student is ready when he sees himself in relation to, not only himself, but the roles he plays.

What do you think?


--------------------
full blown human

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Female User Gallery


Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: Dialogue vs debate [Re: Penelope_Tree]
    #21283004 - 02/16/15 01:50 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

I want to separe the act of arguing (sustaining opposing points of view) from the negative emotional reactions people tent to get as a result. Needless to say that simply discussing can arise negative emotional reactions. I don't think one's better than the other, and, like you said, discussing without evidence is nocive.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
Re: Dialogue vs debate [Re: Penelope_Tree]
    #21283032 - 02/16/15 01:55 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

dialogue is constructive activity, and debate is a destructive one




This is a conclusion not a premise.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemaynard
Stranger
 User Gallery


Registered: 08/02/13
Posts: 164
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
Re: Dialogue vs debate [Re: Penelope_Tree]
    #21283067 - 02/16/15 02:02 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

You seek to win a debate, but you seek to carry on a dialogue. Debate is confrontational, but dialogue is shared.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
Re: Dialogue vs debate [Re: maynard]
    #21283089 - 02/16/15 02:05 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Debate is not done solo thus it is shared.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Dialogue vs debate [Re: Penelope_Tree]
    #21283178 - 02/16/15 02:20 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

I prefer to masterbate.

See I'm physic. The above response also works for OC.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (02/16/15 02:21 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePenelope_Tree
Shamanic Panic
 User Gallery


Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 8,535
Loc: magic sugarcastle
Re: Dialogue vs debate [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #21283240 - 02/16/15 02:33 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
I want to separe the act of arguing (sustaining opposing points of view) from the negative emotional reactions people tent to get as a result. Needless to say that simply discussing can arise negative emotional reactions. I don't think one's better than the other, and, like you said, discussing without evidence is nocive.




I had to google "nocive" :thumbup:


When I think of debate, I think of separating components into smaller parts. When I think of dialogue, I think of putting pieces together. Sure, each has elements of the other (they are analogous, after all). There is no reason debate has to be confrontational, just as dialogue can transform ways of being, entrenched in minds for years. I think it all comes from intention, respect, and compassion. :flowers: The hoped-for end-result of each is a deeper understanding, right?


One time, I was on a date at a flea market (real classy, I know) and saw a carved wooden sign with a painted picture of a fish that read "master baitor." My date asked me what it said, and I didn't realize until I had said it out loud :lol: :blush: when is your bday, Ice? I think I know what to make you for a gift. :lol:


--------------------
full blown human

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
Re: Dialogue vs debate [Re: Penelope_Tree]
    #21283274 - 02/16/15 02:39 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Sometimes I just don't want a deeper understanding of stupidity and ignorance; mostly because it is impossible.

Example: Trying to figure out why people would kill over a cartoon. There is no respect nor middle ground for such deranged thinking.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePenelope_Tree
Shamanic Panic
 User Gallery


Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 8,535
Loc: magic sugarcastle
Re: Dialogue vs debate [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #21283329 - 02/16/15 02:50 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Hurt people hurt people. :shrug: Surely, without an understanding, we can't meaningfully alter thoughts or behavior.


And yes, I just called you Shirley.


--------------------
full blown human

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
Re: Dialogue vs debate [Re: Penelope_Tree]
    #21283397 - 02/16/15 03:02 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

What's your vector, Victor?


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleTropism
ChasingTail


Registered: 09/12/09
Posts: 2,039
Re: Dialogue vs debate [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #21283454 - 02/16/15 03:14 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
I don't think one's better than the other, and, like you said, discussing without evidence is nocive.




One issue I see here is there will always be a lack of evidence in philosophical debate.
(Un)fortunately much of the topics exist outside of empiricism and rational discourse is the closest option as a substitute.
There needs to be some discussion without evidence allowed, how else do we broach those topics?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleCosmicJokeM
happy mutant
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
Re: Dialogue vs debate [Re: Penelope_Tree] * 1
    #21284165 - 02/16/15 05:09 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Oh, I'd say it's debate vs discussion, and dialogue is that ever elusive alternative.

Here's a pretty good chart comparing them, I'm curious what you think:

http://oregonstate.edu/oei/sites/default/files/comparing_debate_discussions_dialogue.pdf


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Female User Gallery


Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: Dialogue vs debate [Re: Penelope_Tree]
    #21284456 - 02/16/15 05:51 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:


The hoped-for end-result of each is a deeper understanding, right?




Meh, I don't know if that's always the case, at least not for me. I sometimes love being annoying and defiant. :lol:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePenelope_Tree
Shamanic Panic
 User Gallery


Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 8,535
Loc: magic sugarcastle
Re: Dialogue vs debate [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #21284534 - 02/16/15 05:59 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Wow, what a gem!!! Thank you for sharing!

I definitely agree that debate can take on an "alpha pride" feel to it. However, some of it's qualities, especially finding flaws in another's viewpoint, serve a vital function. I know I'm attracted to "debate" because I want to learn. Some subjects don't always have an emotional/communal component, and so debate becomes a form of play.

I think in instances of emotional or communal matters (read: matters where logic doesn't reign), a more emotionally intelligent approach is key. I also think this is why Socrates is so iconic: he made others realize the flaws in their logic without direct confrontation.


--------------------
full blown human

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Female User Gallery


Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: Dialogue vs debate [Re: Tropism]
    #21284556 - 02/16/15 06:02 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Tropism said:
Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
I don't think one's better than the other, and, like you said, discussing without evidence is nocive.




One issue I see here is there will always be a lack of evidence in philosophical debate.
(Un)fortunately much of the topics exist outside of empiricism and rational discourse is the closest option as a substitute.
There needs to be some discussion without evidence allowed, how else do we broach those topics?




Oh, I agree. I think any possible topic should be discussed, and it's even better imo when all participants aren't fooling themselves (or trying to fool others) that their ponderings are facts.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleTropism
ChasingTail


Registered: 09/12/09
Posts: 2,039
Re: Dialogue vs debate [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #21284760 - 02/16/15 06:31 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Sometimes it just feels too real not to be fact.

:feelsjohngoodman::ancientaliens:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Dialogue vs debate [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #21284816 - 02/16/15 06:37 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
I want to separe the act of arguing (sustaining opposing points of view) from the negative emotional reactions people tent to get as a result. Needless to say that simply discussing can arise negative emotional reactions. I don't think one's better than the other, and, like you said, discussing without evidence is nocive.




God I hope you're typing on a tiny phone pad. If not I hate to be the one to break it to you but you've had a stroke. :sad:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Female User Gallery


Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: Dialogue vs debate [Re: Tropism]
    #21284824 - 02/16/15 06:37 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

:tardpig:  :goat:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Female User Gallery


Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: Dialogue vs debate [Re: Icelander]
    #21284842 - 02/16/15 06:40 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:

God I hope you're typing on a tiny phone pad.




Yeah I actually am. :razz:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Dialogue vs debate [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #21284897 - 02/16/15 06:49 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Good because you're too young to be cut down in such a senseless way. 

But you can have one in a few years. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* the place of debate in rational discussion Sophistic Radiance 1,343 11 01/24/08 09:19 PM
by Diploid
* The Fallacies of Philosophical Debate kimikiri 1,662 7 09/06/07 07:58 AM
by fireworks_god
* God vs. Science debate
( 1 2 3 4 all )
Atheist 3,312 62 12/18/07 04:28 AM
by Seuss
* The Most Outrageous Scenario
( 1 2 all )
Swami 2,100 25 04/13/04 01:16 AM
by truekimbo2
* The Dialogue Continues........ ViBrAnT 711 6 05/07/03 01:48 AM
by Deiymiyan
* The art of debate.
( 1 2 all )
Huehuecoyotl 3,352 38 04/09/05 08:58 PM
by Ped
* Internal Dialogue peruvian spark 1,488 10 07/14/06 04:20 PM
by Huehuecoyotl
* internal Dialogue SneezingPenis 878 8 02/22/05 11:57 PM
by SneezingPenis

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
1,241 topic views. 2 members, 2 guests and 11 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.025 seconds spending 0.004 seconds on 14 queries.