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Penelope_Tree
Shamanic Panic



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Dialogue vs debate
#21282978 - 02/16/15 01:44 PM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Which is more important? Where does the balance lie?
To me, it can be parsed as such: dialogue is constructive activity, and debate is a destructive one. That isn't to say debate doesn't have its role; we all know the saying, "there is no creation without destruction." Too much agreement without checks & balances leads to cancer. Too much discordance, and we have dis-ease amongst ourselves and our community (ahem). Both are equally important within a larger context and should be given value as they relate to the larger community as a whole.
The teacher appears when the student is ready, and the student is ready when he sees himself in relation to, not only himself, but the roles he plays.
What do you think?
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



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I want to separe the act of arguing (sustaining opposing points of view) from the negative emotional reactions people tent to get as a result. Needless to say that simply discussing can arise negative emotional reactions. I don't think one's better than the other, and, like you said, discussing without evidence is nocive.
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Quote:
dialogue is constructive activity, and debate is a destructive one
This is a conclusion not a premise.
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maynard
Stranger



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You seek to win a debate, but you seek to carry on a dialogue. Debate is confrontational, but dialogue is shared.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: Dialogue vs debate [Re: maynard]
#21283089 - 02/16/15 02:05 PM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Debate is not done solo thus it is shared.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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I prefer to masterbate.
See I'm physic. The above response also works for OC.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (02/16/15 02:21 PM)
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Penelope_Tree
Shamanic Panic



Registered: 07/31/09
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Loc: magic sugarcastle
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Quote:
MushroomTrip said: I want to separe the act of arguing (sustaining opposing points of view) from the negative emotional reactions people tent to get as a result. Needless to say that simply discussing can arise negative emotional reactions. I don't think one's better than the other, and, like you said, discussing without evidence is nocive.
I had to google "nocive" 
When I think of debate, I think of separating components into smaller parts. When I think of dialogue, I think of putting pieces together. Sure, each has elements of the other (they are analogous, after all). There is no reason debate has to be confrontational, just as dialogue can transform ways of being, entrenched in minds for years. I think it all comes from intention, respect, and compassion. The hoped-for end-result of each is a deeper understanding, right?
One time, I was on a date at a flea market (real classy, I know) and saw a carved wooden sign with a painted picture of a fish that read "master baitor." My date asked me what it said, and I didn't realize until I had said it out loud when is your bday, Ice? I think I know what to make you for a gift.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Sometimes I just don't want a deeper understanding of stupidity and ignorance; mostly because it is impossible.
Example: Trying to figure out why people would kill over a cartoon. There is no respect nor middle ground for such deranged thinking.
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Penelope_Tree
Shamanic Panic



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Hurt people hurt people. Surely, without an understanding, we can't meaningfully alter thoughts or behavior.
And yes, I just called you Shirley.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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What's your vector, Victor?
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Tropism
ChasingTail


Registered: 09/12/09
Posts: 2,039
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Quote:
MushroomTrip said: I don't think one's better than the other, and, like you said, discussing without evidence is nocive.
One issue I see here is there will always be a lack of evidence in philosophical debate. (Un)fortunately much of the topics exist outside of empiricism and rational discourse is the closest option as a substitute. There needs to be some discussion without evidence allowed, how else do we broach those topics?
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant



Registered: 04/05/00
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Oh, I'd say it's debate vs discussion, and dialogue is that ever elusive alternative.
Here's a pretty good chart comparing them, I'm curious what you think:
http://oregonstate.edu/oei/sites/default/files/comparing_debate_discussions_dialogue.pdf
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
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Quote:
The hoped-for end-result of each is a deeper understanding, right?
Meh, I don't know if that's always the case, at least not for me. I sometimes love being annoying and defiant.
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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Penelope_Tree
Shamanic Panic



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Wow, what a gem!!! Thank you for sharing!
I definitely agree that debate can take on an "alpha pride" feel to it. However, some of it's qualities, especially finding flaws in another's viewpoint, serve a vital function. I know I'm attracted to "debate" because I want to learn. Some subjects don't always have an emotional/communal component, and so debate becomes a form of play.
I think in instances of emotional or communal matters (read: matters where logic doesn't reign), a more emotionally intelligent approach is key. I also think this is why Socrates is so iconic: he made others realize the flaws in their logic without direct confrontation.
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



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Re: Dialogue vs debate [Re: Tropism]
#21284556 - 02/16/15 06:02 PM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tropism said:
Quote:
MushroomTrip said: I don't think one's better than the other, and, like you said, discussing without evidence is nocive.
One issue I see here is there will always be a lack of evidence in philosophical debate. (Un)fortunately much of the topics exist outside of empiricism and rational discourse is the closest option as a substitute. There needs to be some discussion without evidence allowed, how else do we broach those topics?
Oh, I agree. I think any possible topic should be discussed, and it's even better imo when all participants aren't fooling themselves (or trying to fool others) that their ponderings are facts.
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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Tropism
ChasingTail


Registered: 09/12/09
Posts: 2,039
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Sometimes it just feels too real not to be fact.

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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
MushroomTrip said: I want to separe the act of arguing (sustaining opposing points of view) from the negative emotional reactions people tent to get as a result. Needless to say that simply discussing can arise negative emotional reactions. I don't think one's better than the other, and, like you said, discussing without evidence is nocive.
God I hope you're typing on a tiny phone pad. If not I hate to be the one to break it to you but you've had a stroke.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



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Re: Dialogue vs debate [Re: Tropism]
#21284824 - 02/16/15 06:37 PM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
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Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
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Re: Dialogue vs debate [Re: Icelander]
#21284842 - 02/16/15 06:40 PM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
God I hope you're typing on a tiny phone pad.
Yeah I actually am.
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Good because you're too young to be cut down in such a senseless way.
But you can have one in a few years.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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