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Offlinerandoman
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Evaporation speed, and effect on cubes.
    #21279887 - 02/15/15 09:03 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

I was just sitting here wondering if anyone has done some type of research on the frequency of evaporation, in correct fruiting conditions. In correlation with fruit growth, pinning and effects of sped up or slowed down growth.
I read this forum allot and I have checked the search engine to the best of my ability.
People here have done just about everything I can ever think of doing when it comes to experimentation I am sure. I just cant find the info.
This is a surprise for me.
For instance if you are home allot on the weekends and you have time to mist you sgfc 5 times per hour would it make since to leave the lid off for a day? Would it be acceptable to have a fan pointed directly at fruiting cakes at any point? Assuming that you are keeping up with all the hydration needs.
Any feedback would be quenching to my brain..

Edited by randoman (02/16/15 07:26 AM)

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OfflinePinPornProducer
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Re: Evaporation speed, and effect on cubes. [Re: randoman]
    #21279939 - 02/15/15 09:15 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

I'm sure if you could maximize certain conditions without decreasing others it would be nothing less than beneficial

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OfflineMonty514
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Re: Evaporation speed, and effect on cubes. [Re: PinPornProducer]
    #21280084 - 02/15/15 09:52 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

:threadmonitor:

Interesting questions.

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Offlinerandoman
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Re: Evaporation speed, and effect on cubes. [Re: Monty514]
    #21280106 - 02/15/15 09:57 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Wish I had an ask RR button sometimes!


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Offlinegogochoco
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Re: Evaporation speed, and effect on cubes. [Re: randoman]
    #21280678 - 02/15/15 11:28 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Eeeehhhh.... Somebody has their thinking cap on. I like your questions!

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OfflineSpeckles
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Re: Evaporation speed, and effect on cubes. [Re: gogochoco] * 2
    #21280905 - 02/16/15 12:38 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

I'm no mycologist but I'm pretty stoned and I'm thinking if I was mycelium the only way I would know that I'm growing into the air is evaporation and the sexy pure energy of light bashing into my cells.

As the casing layer evaporates, the cells making up those hyphae reaching towards the light are probably shedding water as well. Perhaps the myc responds to certain cells loosing water at a much higher rate than the other 99.9% of cells tucked within the substrate and thinks, "here is the open air, where we can become a mushrooms and send our spores out to colonize other shit."

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OfflineJudPie
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Re: Evaporation speed, and effect on cubes. [Re: Speckles] * 1
    #21280910 - 02/16/15 12:40 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Speckles said:
I'm no mycologist but I'm pretty stoned




Dick... I just laughed so hard I sprayed iced tea everywhere lol

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Offlinerandoman
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Re: Evaporation speed, and effect on cubes. [Re: JudPie]
    #21280953 - 02/16/15 01:02 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Just something I will have to give a shot for a couple grows.
There are allot of new people here that worry about fanning and misting. They think they are doing it too much or too little. Then they freak out until they get there first pin.
If they are like myself they most likely want to sit and dote over their babies anyway.
I have noticed the days that I am home and can soak the hell out of my cakes. Then fan allot and keep the lid off to allow to speed up the process of evaporation. This is done carefully with a fan blowing indirectly at the sgfc. The mushrooms that are fruiting seem to grow faster and pins appear quickly compared to when I can not give them this attention.
I really wish somebody could find a link where something like this has been done.
Maybe it is called the doting tek.:rolleyes:


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Invisibleinsanemike

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Re: Evaporation speed, and effect on cubes. [Re: JudPie]
    #21280959 - 02/16/15 01:05 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

I have been logging the weight of my trays from spawn til pins. My trays, before introducing to FC, lose an average of 7 grams of weight a day. From what I've read, 20% of that weight is not moisture but a loss of CO2 from mushroom metabolism. This is all in it's infancy, so I don't have a lot of info on the subject but I'm hoping to change that over the next 6 months. It's refreshing to see someone asking the same exact questions I have been asking myself.


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Offlinerandoman
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Re: Evaporation speed, and effect on cubes. [Re: insanemike]
    #21280966 - 02/16/15 01:09 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

and this for you!


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Invisibleinsanemike

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Re: Evaporation speed, and effect on cubes. [Re: randoman]
    #21280982 - 02/16/15 01:23 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

:bigweed:

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OfflineSockadin
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Re: Evaporation speed, and effect on cubes. [Re: randoman] * 1
    #21281175 - 02/16/15 04:24 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

randoman said:
Just something I will have to give a shot for a couple grows.
There are allot of new people here that worry about fanning and misting. They think they are doing it too much or too little. Then they freak out until they get there first pin.
If they are like myself they most likely want to sit and dote over their babies anyway.
I have noticed the days that I am home and can soak the hell out of my cakes.Then fan allot and keep the lid off to allow to speed up the process of evaporation. This is done carefully with a fan blowing indirectly at the sgfc. The mushrooms that are fruiting seem to grow faster and pins appear quickly compared to when I can not give them this attention.
I really wish somebody could find a link where something like this has been done.
Maybe it is called the doting tek.:rolleyes:





I think you are way ever thinking it. The evaporation process is going to happen through convection. This means an elevated SGFC that will allow air to pass through the chamber. I would not use a normal pedestal fan or anything else even indirectly blowing at it. The natural air currents of the room should be just fine to help pull fresh air through the chamber. Think of it like this, if the sub looks dry you should mist it. A few HOURS later if it looks to wet, you can manually fan it with the lid.

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Offlinebummerhigh
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Re: Evaporation speed, and effect on cubes. [Re: Sockadin]
    #21281188 - 02/16/15 04:38 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

In an ideal environment I would assume that the rate of evaporation would be moderately slow. although i'm an no expert.

I always try to mist no more then once an hour and If i'm doing something wrong the mushrooms will let me know

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Offlinetombosley8
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Re: Evaporation speed, and effect on cubes. [Re: Sockadin]
    #21283589 - 02/16/15 03:42 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Sockadin said:
I think you are way over thinking it. The evaporation process is going to happen through convection. This means an elevated SGFC that will allow air to pass through the chamber. I would not use a normal pedestal fan or anything else even indirectly blowing at it. The natural air currents of the room should be just fine to help pull fresh air through the chamber. Think of it like this, if the sub looks dry you should mist it. A few HOURS later if it looks to wet, you can manually fan it with the lid.


:whathesaid:
Misting and fanning when done right in my conditions is only needed 3-4 times per day. Once an hour is way over the top as you most likely are not allowing the cakes to evaporate enough or if they are dry by that time there is too much airflow around the tub causing it to dry out. NO FAN in the room with your sgfc is key to allow the air to pass from the bottom of the tub to the top causing humidity and evaporation which is all you need.


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Edited by tombosley8 (02/16/15 05:43 PM)

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Offlinesecretagent
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Re: Evaporation speed, and effect on cubes. [Re: randoman]
    #21283894 - 02/16/15 04:34 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

If you read up on mass transfer you can probably simplify the problem quite nicely. Assume you can ignore all but the top surface of the substrate. And that the concentration at the surface (both air/gas and surface/fluid) are constant.

You can also compare forced evaporation (fan) vs natural evaporation (no fan), but you will need flow rate.

Without a science background it's more than likely just a waste of time, and you will need experimental data to fit a more complicated, and accurate, model of the heat and mass transfer.

Just my 5c

Edited by secretagent (02/16/15 04:38 PM)

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Offlinerandoman
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Re: Evaporation speed, and effect on cubes. [Re: secretagent]
    #21284341 - 02/16/15 05:38 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Agreed.


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The possibility of physical and mental collapse is now very real. No sympathy for the Devil, keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride. Hunter S. Thompson
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Offlinerandoman
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Re: Evaporation speed, and effect on cubes. [Re: randoman]
    #21312959 - 02/22/15 12:59 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Bump....??? Anyone actually tried it? This for sure was not at all a controlled experiment, I did however speed up the evaporation process and it grew so fast the cap cracked.

Can anyone with the means and motive give this a shot or have they...?


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The possibility of physical and mental collapse is now very real. No sympathy for the Devil, keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride. Hunter S. Thompson
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Offlinesecretagent
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Re: Evaporation speed, and effect on cubes. [Re: randoman]
    #21312973 - 02/22/15 01:05 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

How did you speed up evaporation, by using forced convection (a fan)?
Did you keep the surface constantly hydrated or did it go for enough time to even marginally dry out?

It's an interesting problem - as there might be some signals to fruit/release spored if exposed to period of decreased humidity.
But fuck if I know, I'm just grabbing at shadows with hopefully decent guesses! :kingtard:

Edited by secretagent (02/22/15 01:06 PM)

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Offlinepsyder
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Re: Evaporation speed, and effect on cubes. [Re: randoman]
    #21312991 - 02/22/15 01:11 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

All I can do is give you my experience for comparison.
I have a small tub with 3 holes at two sides each just above water level on tub (~1") the rest of the holes are in upper part total 14 (all aligned on same height) on sides and 12 on lid.
I mist and fan 12 hrs apart, ->> only two times per day. The rest of the time the tub is left alone. That is enough for hyphal knots on day three and pins on day 5. The fruits are picked 5 days after pinning. 10 days total.
Theese results where obtained by mixing grain spawn and soil (20:30) and pressed into trays (cube cake hahaha) after 2 days and visible hyphals the "cakes where taken out of the tray and returned into FC on a shallow tray.

Edited by psyder (02/22/15 01:17 PM)

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InvisibleSoupSandwich
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Re: Evaporation speed, and effect on cubes. [Re: psyder] * 1
    #21313014 - 02/22/15 01:16 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Found this post, may be useful for ya. Maybe not, as it mainly talks about CO2.


Quote:

There's many pinning triggers, but since this thread centers on one of them, I'll stick with it. Bear in mind, that doesn't diminish the others, and a wall-to-wall canopy requires the grower be good at juggling all of them.  Remember, none of us ever sees a huge wall-to-wall canopy of fruits in nature, so we're not mimicking nature, we're improving on it to get the best possible results. 

We often refer to lowering the CO2 level as a pinning trigger. We also refer to loss of moisture from the substrate as a pinning trigger.  Are they the same thing?  When we apply fresh air exchange, the CO2 level naturally lowers, which is a secondary pinning trigger.  Also, when we apply fresh air, the lower humidity of the fresh air causes evaporation, resulting in a loss of moisture from the substrate, a primary pinning trigger.  One really can't be separated from the other, nor should they be.

However, while lowering the CO2 is one of many factors involved in pinning, it's not the primary reason for keeping a high CO2 level during colonization.  We keep a high CO2 level during colonization because the mycelium seems to consider its job in nature is to break down solid matter, releasing its carbon as CO2.  Left unchecked in open air, most of the substrate will have been consumed by the time fruiting happens.  We see this in cow fields.  The cow patties with mushrooms are noticeably smaller than ones with no mushrooms.  The mycelium has significantly digested most of the manure, liberating it as CO2 into the air.

If the mycelium is forced to run through the substrate in a very high CO2 environment, metabolism is slowed, allowing colonization with very little of the final substrate consumed, making it available to support bigger flushes and more of them.  This is the reason we keep substrates tightly closed during colonization except for a small amount of gas exchange to prevent the mycelium from suffocating itself.

It is a fact that air exchange during spawn run will result in faster colonization.  However, we don't do it for the reasons explained above.  Remember, this reply only considered CO2, not the half dozen or so other factors involved.
The venerable, RR



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