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SoupSandwich




Registered: 12/08/14
Posts: 4,440
Loc: Lost
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Re: Evaporation speed, and effect on cubes. [Re: randoman]
#21318186 - 02/23/15 02:48 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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It was a great question and people should definitely feel free to ask questions, whether 'great' or ...not, without fear of being shat upon or dismissed. Right?
Anyways, thanks for asking the question! Look forward to hearing more from you...
Sincerely, Fellow Noob.
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secretagent
Stranger


Registered: 10/26/14
Posts: 54
Loc: Europa
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Re: Evaporation speed, and effect on cubes. [Re: SoupSandwich] 1
#21322712 - 02/24/15 01:17 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
SoupSandwich said: Misting and fanning will increase evaporation though.
If done in equal measure, right? Over misting will not though.[/image]
Misting in itself can increase evaporation, unless you aren't increasing the surface concentration of H2O(l). So if your surface is completely wet, you will not increase evaporation by adding more water (misting). Or rather, the rate of evaporation will not be increased.
For fanning: Absolutely, it will definitely increase evaporation if we assume there is a higher concentration on the surface. This is both due to air exchange (lower RH%/less C_H2O in the containers gas-phase) and that you are causing forced convection!
If you fan, reducing concentration of H2O(g) and evaporating some of the H2O(l) on the surface below saturation (100% wet surface). It would most likely be a good idea to re-mist.
I know that most of this is already common knowledge, I'm just trying explain the processes taking place!
Hope that helps!
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
Loc: Nibiru
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Re: Evaporation speed, and effect on cubes. [Re: secretagent] 2
#21322791 - 02/24/15 01:39 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Increasing FAE increases evaporation and the frequency of needing to mist to prevent your cake from drying out.
Too much misting can create a larger fruit without actually increasing the dry weight. A soggy fruit is bigger because it has more water in it.
Misting allows the cake to absorb some moisture while at the same time evaporation keeps high RH at the surface level where it's most important. without having time for the cake to absob some of the moisture, it will dry out. We don't want the moisture to evaporate too fast.
IME, rapid evaporation and high frequency misting causes the substrate to get a thick rubbery texture and prevents pinning.
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wowimflabbergasted
supercalifragilistic



Registered: 07/16/12
Posts: 18,919
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Re: Evaporation speed, and effect on cubes. [Re: SpitballJedi]
#21322813 - 02/24/15 01:45 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
SpitballJedi said: Increasing FAE increases evaporation and the frequency of needing to mist to prevent your cake from drying out.
Too much misting can create a larger fruit without actually increasing the dry weight. A soggy fruit is bigger because it has more water in it.
Misting allows the cake to absorb some moisture while at the same time evaporation keeps high RH at the surface level where it's most important. without having time for the cake to absob some of the moisture, it will dry out. We don't want the moisture to evaporate too fast.
IME, rapid evaporation and high frequency misting causes the substrate to get a thick rubbery texture and prevents pinning.
Nice SBJ. I've noticed over misting/fast evap. causes that too. It gets all matted and is hard to fruit.
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Kizzle
Misanthrope


Registered: 08/30/11
Posts: 9,870
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Re: Evaporation speed, and effect on cubes. [Re: secretagent] 1
#21322874 - 02/24/15 02:04 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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The point of misting is to rehydrate the substrate not to increase evaporation. And for that to happen the moisture needs to stay there long enough to be absorbed or you'll have to mist more often to make up for it. Keep in mind it is evaporation from the pins and mycelium that increases growth not evaporation of moisture near or on the them. Useful evaporation is caused by having sufficient fresh air exchange not by fanning.
Seriously I've compared fanning substrates to not fanning substrates for years and have no intention of ever fanning a substrate again.
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tripdawg420
low life with no life



Registered: 02/02/09
Posts: 7,653
Loc: illinois
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Re: Evaporation speed, and effect on cubes. [Re: Kizzle]
#21322936 - 02/24/15 02:18 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kizzle said:
Seriously I've compared fanning substrates to not fanning substrates for years and have no intention of ever fanning a substrate again.
i have found the exact opposite tubs get stale air pockets like a weed grow box thats why you put a fan in a grow box fc are no differant as many holes a sgfc has they still benifit from spraying and fanning why wouldnt a mono with way less holes
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Kizzle
Misanthrope


Registered: 08/30/11
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Re: Evaporation speed, and effect on cubes. [Re: tripdawg420] 1
#21323010 - 02/24/15 02:34 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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They really don't. They benefit from misting for sure and they benefit from fresh air exchange. You may not have noticed it but when you mist there is huge amounts of air movement. There are no stale air pockets after a mist. Waggling the lid around afterwards though is an exercise in futility that's all.
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wowimflabbergasted
supercalifragilistic



Registered: 07/16/12
Posts: 18,919
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Re: Evaporation speed, and effect on cubes. [Re: Kizzle]
#21323020 - 02/24/15 02:37 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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So you're saying misting has nothing to do with evaporation...?
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tripdawg420
low life with no life



Registered: 02/02/09
Posts: 7,653
Loc: illinois
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Re: Evaporation speed, and effect on cubes. [Re: Kizzle]
#21323066 - 02/24/15 02:46 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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if you mist hows all that moister going to evaporate in time if there aint alot of fae i hardly ever mist a mono but i have i want the suface to dry out see how dry my suface is i wish i had better pics
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Kizzle
Misanthrope


Registered: 08/30/11
Posts: 9,870
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Misting reduces evaporation from the pins/mycelium temporarily. That's unavoidable. You can't expect to rehydrate a substrate while at the same time dehydrating it via evaporation. If you're misting and are concerned that the moisture is staying pooled for too long then you're misting too much.
Intentionally misting too much, and I've seen people do this particularly in regard to misting monotubs, in the hope that fanning away that excess moisture will provide some kind of benefit over simply misting less is silly.
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tripdawg420
low life with no life



Registered: 02/02/09
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Re: Evaporation speed, and effect on cubes. [Re: Kizzle]
#21323146 - 02/24/15 03:05 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Kizzle
Misanthrope


Registered: 08/30/11
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Re: Evaporation speed, and effect on cubes. [Re: tripdawg420] 1
#21323218 - 02/24/15 03:21 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Mist only what you need so that the droplets disappear relatively quickly and ideally they should be disappearing because they've been absorbed not simply because they evaporated. Evaporation from a pool of water atop the substrate is not the same as transpiration from a fruit body which increases the flow of nutrients.
If you've ever put fresh mushrooms in a plastic bag you know they transpire far more than the mycelium does. That's partly responsible for their fast growth. Moisture from the rest of the mycelium is drawn into the fruit body to replace the lost moisture and it carries with it more nutrients.
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Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


Registered: 08/26/12
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Re: Evaporation speed, and effect on cubes. [Re: Kizzle]
#21323276 - 02/24/15 03:33 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kizzle said: Mist only what you need so that the droplets disappear relatively quickly and ideally they should be disappearing because they've been absorbed not simply because they evaporated. Evaporation from a pool of water atop the substrate is not the same as transpiration from a fruit body which increases the flow of nutrients.
If you've ever put fresh mushrooms in a plastic bag you know they transpire far more than the mycelium does. That's partly responsible for their fast growth. Moisture from the rest of the mycelium is drawn into the fruit body to replace the lost moisture and it carries with it more nutrients.
It's also probably necessary for the formation of Buller's drops.
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: Evaporation speed, and effect on cubes. [Re: Kizzle]
#21323434 - 02/24/15 04:04 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kizzle said: Mist only what you need so that the droplets disappear relatively quickly and ideally they should be disappearing because they've been absorbed not simply because they evaporated. Evaporation from a pool of water atop the substrate is not the same as transpiration from a fruit body which increases the flow of nutrients.
If you've ever put fresh mushrooms in a plastic bag you know they transpire far more than the mycelium does. That's partly responsible for their fast growth. Moisture from the rest of the mycelium is drawn into the fruit body to replace the lost moisture and it carries with it more nutrients.
That is some great fucking information. thanks Kizzle
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wowimflabbergasted
supercalifragilistic



Registered: 07/16/12
Posts: 18,919
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Re: Evaporation speed, and effect on cubes. [Re: Kizzle]
#21323484 - 02/24/15 04:15 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kizzle said: Intentionally misting too much, and I've seen people do this particularly in regard to misting monotubs, in the hope that fanning away that excess moisture will provide some kind of benefit over simply misting less is silly.
QFT
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taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



Registered: 10/16/14
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That's what I was trying to explain to the other guy,
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
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Re: Evaporation speed, and effect on cubes. [Re: taGyo] 1
#21332996 - 02/26/15 01:05 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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kizzle has nailed it here....soup i know people love this little tc tag but don't take others posts for granted, there are always tc's watching and when someone is wrong they normally get called on it as for the high co2 thing that is something us humans learned to take advantage of and as stated earlier in this thread it simply helps make sure the mycelium doesn't totally consume the substrate during colonizing, we want most of this to happen at fruiting which is why you see subs shrink a fuck ton once fresh air exchange is intoduced, not because of moisture loss but because it is being eaten
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SoupSandwich




Registered: 12/08/14
Posts: 4,440
Loc: Lost
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Re: Evaporation speed, and effect on cubes. [Re: cronicr]
#21333010 - 02/26/15 01:09 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Good call.
Yeah, I like that we have you TC's to look up to. Otherwise it's just chaos.
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taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



Registered: 10/16/14
Posts: 18,802
Loc: Journal Land
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Re: Evaporation speed, and effect on cubes. [Re: SoupSandwich] 1
#21333027 - 02/26/15 01:14 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Learn to listen to other people. A TC tag means nothing. Kizzle is not a TC. I would give my left tit for a fraction of Kizzle's knowledge. You will miss out on a lot only listening to TCs.
But don't listen to me,
I'm just an arrogant little noob bitch.
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows
TNF Q&A
AMU Q&A
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tripdawg420
low life with no life



Registered: 02/02/09
Posts: 7,653
Loc: illinois
Last seen: 1 hour, 13 minutes
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Re: Evaporation speed, and effect on cubes. [Re: taGyo]
#21333033 - 02/26/15 01:16 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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wonder when imma get a tag
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