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OfflineMind-Rip
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Terence Mckennas Novelty Theory
    #21272981 - 02/14/15 11:58 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Anyone really read about his Novelty Theory? Its says basically that the creation of new major situations in the world happens in a fractalic fashion. Back 50,000 years ago,life was basically at a stand still in terms of new things that were around to see or learn or experience. And once the ball got rolling, it happened faster and faster. Albeit still quite slow in the beginning. Now there are new things literally being created every single day. This is normal today but think about only 150 years ago. everything new was the next big thing. and only a few people were creating these things.

Terence would say that were moving towards a singularity where at some point everything is going to happen all at once.
My opinion is this is going to happen at the moment when we both join our minds with computers and are concious enough to then realize we are not what we thought we are and that we can do and be anything we desire.

Any thoughts on this?


--------------------
The mushroom is love.
The mushroom is life.
Eateth of the fruit body
And you will become one with everything.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Terence Mckennas Novelty Theory [Re: Mind-Rip]
    #21272995 - 02/14/15 12:01 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Who's TM?:confused:  Why would anyone here know anything about him?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (02/14/15 12:01 PM)

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Terence Mckennas Novelty Theory [Re: Mind-Rip]
    #21273026 - 02/14/15 12:09 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

The TM Singularity and the Kurzweil Singularity are different ideas altogether.


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: Terence Mckennas Novelty Theory [Re: Mind-Rip]
    #21273056 - 02/14/15 12:16 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

I love novelty theory, you can actually use the timewave to track the novel points in your life, novelty is in a constant struggle with entropy, which Terence renamed habbit at Rupert shedrakes request. When the wave dips down, those are the novel high points, when the wave spikes up, these are times of habbit and recidivism.

Mckenna built the timewave by taking the king-wen sequence of I-ching hexagram, inverting it upon itself, then graphing it out.

The sad thing is since 2012 has past, when your using the timewave software it picks a random end date of the wave, so the timewave probably isn't accurate any more....they should set the end date the exact ammount of time that the azetec calender is long into the future, I think the calender is a guide so you know when the wave starts and ends, the world was not suposed to end in 2012, you just have to recalibrate the end date on your timewave calender on that date.

The strange thing is you really can feel the ups and downs in novelty,  sometimes it feels like the whole world is having a "bad day" other times the world seems to have an excelleration in creative energy all in sync. These ups and downs are observeable in real life!

Mckenna had a counciling service called " Anamnesis" where he would have people come in and he would see over sn extended period of time weather the wave mathched the ups and downs in novelty in that persons life.

I love mckennas novelty theory.
Another good theory is rupertvsheldrskes morphogenetic fields

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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: Terence Mckennas Novelty Theory [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #21273063 - 02/14/15 12:18 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

At the end it was suposed to say another good theory is Rupert shrldrakes morphogenetic fields.

There are talks called trialogues between Terence mckenna, Ralph Abraham, and Rupert sheldrake, these are all really good as well.

-E. Borodin

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OfflineMind-Rip
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Re: Terence Mckennas Novelty Theory [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #21273086 - 02/14/15 12:25 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

But wouldn't they have to overlap at some point to complete Mckennas theory? He was always such an advocate for technology.


--------------------
The mushroom is love.
The mushroom is life.
Eateth of the fruit body
And you will become one with everything.


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: Terence Mckennas Novelty Theory [Re: Icelander]
    #21273101 - 02/14/15 12:29 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Who's TM?:confused:  Why would anyone here know anything about him?




Terence Mckenna and his brother Denis published one of the first psychedelic mushroom grower guides under the psuedonyms O.T Oss and O.N. Oeric.
Mckenna also started botanical dimentions, a green house in Hawaii that saves psychedelic plants and the history behind them.
Mckenna has been an active member of the psychedelic community promoting psilocybin, ayahuasca, DMT, and shamanism.
Mckenna has done a good deal for the psychedelic community in several different ways, unfortunately he passed away in 2000.

-E. Borodin

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OfflineMind-Rip
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Re: Terence Mckennas Novelty Theory [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #21273174 - 02/14/15 12:52 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

I do believe he was jesting my good man
:pipesmoke:


--------------------
The mushroom is love.
The mushroom is life.
Eateth of the fruit body
And you will become one with everything.


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Terence Mckennas Novelty Theory [Re: Mind-Rip]
    #21275797 - 02/15/15 04:36 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Terrence McKenna was a psychedelic transhumanist, and I think the reason for his popularity with the next-generation post-Leary (who was a psychedelic transhumanist!---see a pattern?) counter-culture generation was because the ideas he was pushing out fitted the oligarchy's agenda of Transhumanism and the whole sick goal for immortality.
It was mcKenna who was largely responsible for the 2012 prophecy which turned out to be a total anti-climax. 2012 was supposed to be THE DATE that his Novelty Theory really kicked off. But it was just a big let down for a lot of McKennaites

Wht he and his elite backers dream off is H E L L. it is the arrogant, satanic take over of nature by mindsets who are not even human let alone trans-human. They do not even know human-ness. if they did do you think the world they rule would be like it is? Do I have to make a list?

Look at this. This is their dream:




also chekout here

Edited by zzripz (02/15/15 04:38 AM)

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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: Terence Mckennas Novelty Theory [Re: Mind-Rip]
    #21275805 - 02/15/15 04:46 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Probably, but still most people don't know "why" mckenna is held in such high regards, it goes beyond his wild theories and entertaining lectures, he did a good deal of real world work that the psychedelic community needs to appreciate, aside from being one of the first to teach the common person how to grow psychedelic fungi, he was the public relations voice of the fungi, he set the stage for people to WANT to try these things, which must have been difficult in mycophobic American society. Aside from that there is "botanical dimentions" (Which is run by mckennas ex-wife Kathleen Harrison along with others like Ralph metzner) this Hawaiian green house not only saves ethnobotanicsl plants, but it saves the history, lore, and culture that comes with them, all things our future generations would NOT have had it not been for Terrence (and Denis).

-E. Borodin

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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: Terence Mckennas Novelty Theory [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #21275807 - 02/15/15 04:48 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

My post above was in response to mind-rip saying "I think he was just jesting"

The post with the info and vid link came in while I was writting my response to mind-rip, so sorry if anything was said twice...

-E. Borodin

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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: Terence Mckennas Novelty Theory [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #21275839 - 02/15/15 05:07 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Zzripz said: Terrence McKenna was a psychedelic transhumanist, and I think the reason for his popularity with the next-generation post-Leary (who was a psychedelic transhumanist!---see a pattern?) counter-culture generation was because the ideas he was pushing out fitted the oligarchy's agenda of Transhumanism and the whole sick goal for immortality. It was mcKenna who was largely responsible for the 2012 prophecy which turned out to be a total anti-climax. 2012 was supposed to be THE DATE that his Novelty Theory really kicked off. But it was just a big let down for a lot of McKennaites.

2012 turned out to be the zero point at which we are to reset the end date on the timewave calender. If you have not used the timewave software its hard to understand the timewave itself or novelty theory. Terence never said anything WOULD happen, he speculated on what COULD happen, it was all speculation, that was mckennas thing,  and he broke down many walls in conventional thought in the process.

The ideas were what was important, mckenna was a generator of unique and novel concepts, so to ask "is anything he says true" is sort of missing the point.

Mckenna was a philosopher and a master of speculation and language, he may have been the reincarnation of Plato. Mckennas job was to release a novel philosophy into the minds of humanity, and he DID! Mckennas philosophy has spread and multiplied in minds every where!

-E. Borodin

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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Terence Mckennas Novelty Theory [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #21275966 - 02/15/15 06:51 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

and THAT is what I worry about!

he didn't even share about the massive bummer he had had with shrooms so much so he stopped taking them, and yet advised others to take 'heroic doses'

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OfflineMind-Rip
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Re: Terence Mckennas Novelty Theory [Re: zzripz]
    #21276177 - 02/15/15 08:42 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

This is true but he had become the voice that showed others what free thinking and the understanding of the importance of direct experience can do in the world. And to suddenly say "I had a really bad experience, everyone change because if it" wouldn't be fair to the values that he'd laid down for so many years.


--------------------
The mushroom is love.
The mushroom is life.
Eateth of the fruit body
And you will become one with everything.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Terence Mckennas Novelty Theory [Re: zzripz]
    #21276280 - 02/15/15 09:12 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
Terrence McKenna was a psychedelic transhumanist, and I think the reason for his popularity with the next-generation post-Leary (who was a psychedelic transhumanist!---see a pattern?) counter-culture generation was because the ideas he was pushing out fitted the oligarchy's agenda of Transhumanism and the whole sick goal for immortality.
It was mcKenna who was largely responsible for the 2012 prophecy which turned out to be a total anti-climax. 2012 was supposed to be THE DATE that his Novelty Theory really kicked off. But it was just a big let down for a lot of McKennaites

Wht he and his elite backers dream off is H E L L. it is the arrogant, satanic take over of nature by mindsets who are not even human let alone trans-human. They do not even know human-ness. if they did do you think the world they rule would be like it is? Do I have to make a list?




zzripz, I sympathize with the thrust of your comments here.  Transhumanism, it seems to me, has no appreciation of what it means to be human in the here and now -- they are only concerned about the purportedly glorious future.  It is also, when you really look at it, a deeply cynical worldview -- nothing here and now is good enough, we must strive for physical immortality (psychological (DA) issues run amok?), everything about humans is inferior, let's just build civilization up a little more and everything will be okay.  These are fundamentally cynical and existentially quite negative tenets.

However, it seems to me that their dream of superintelligent AI will be realized, and it strikes me that, at this point, that is really the only way out.  So, in some ways I am with you here, but I assert that civilization has so much momentum that transhumanism is going to remain fully supported, and in the sense that this will fuel the AI revolution, perhaps this is a good thing, purely as a matter of expediency.  Certainly, it is not going anywhere.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Terence Mckennas Novelty Theory [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #21276443 - 02/15/15 09:50 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Quote:

zzripz said:
Terrence McKenna was a psychedelic transhumanist, and I think the reason for his popularity with the next-generation post-Leary (who was a psychedelic transhumanist!---see a pattern?) counter-culture generation was because the ideas he was pushing out fitted the oligarchy's agenda of Transhumanism and the whole sick goal for immortality.
It was mcKenna who was largely responsible for the 2012 prophecy which turned out to be a total anti-climax. 2012 was supposed to be THE DATE that his Novelty Theory really kicked off. But it was just a big let down for a lot of McKennaites

Wht he and his elite backers dream off is H E L L. it is the arrogant, satanic take over of nature by mindsets who are not even human let alone trans-human. They do not even know human-ness. if they did do you think the world they rule would be like it is? Do I have to make a list?




zzripz, I sympathize with the thrust of your comments here.  Transhumanism, it seems to me, has no appreciation of what it means to be human in the here and now -- they are only concerned about the purportedly glorious future.  It is also, when you really look at it, a deeply cynical worldview -- nothing here and now is good enough, we must strive for physical immortality (psychological (DA) issues run amok?), everything about humans is inferior, let's just build civilization up a little more and everything will be okay.  These are fundamentally cynical and existentially quite negative tenets.

However, it seems to me that their dream of superintelligent AI will be realized, and it strikes me that, at this point, that is really the only way out.  So, in some ways I am with you here, but I assert that civilization has so much momentum that transhumanism is going to remain fully supported, and in the sense that this will fuel the AI revolution, perhaps this is a good thing, purely as a matter of expediency.  Certainly, it is not going anywhere.




I am really with you on the first part/paragraph of what you say. It is totally the not being satisfied and using fear-based mind control to make the 'masses' not satisfied with the natural world. Look in that video the IMAGE they make 'ordinary people' to be. Clownish factory workers pumping out useless turd shapes. But themselves--as 'gods'--are looking to a brave new world bla bla. Well this is what they were also saying in times past, the '50s and '60s and look at the state of things?

Now in the next nit you say you believe A1 is possible? I do not. Because machines are not organisms and are completely different:
The Myth Of AIA Conversation With Jaron Lanier

It's rekindling our lost relationship with nature is what is needed, not getting the techno chips inserted.
I don't care of BILLIONS are all into their hype, and only three of us are not. I will not be forced into their sick worldview because I am very knowing about it from the past and now!

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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Terence Mckennas Novelty Theory [Re: zzripz]
    #21276656 - 02/15/15 10:24 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
It's rekindling our lost relationship with nature is what is needed, not getting the techno chips inserted.
I don't care of BILLIONS are all into their hype, and only three of us are not. I will not be forced into their sick worldview because I am very knowing about it from the past and now!




I agree that that might be spiritually (and environmentally) desirable, but I do not think it is possible at this point in any large-scale meaningful way -- esp. in a world of billions.  But I definitely sympathize with you.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Terence Mckennas Novelty Theory [Re: Mind-Rip]
    #21277385 - 02/15/15 12:42 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

McKenna's hypothesis about the timewave thing has been debunked by his own people.

Here's an excerpt of Peter Meyer, the guy who wrote McKenna's software:

Quote:

I regard the time wave as having no explanatory or predictive power at all, and so is useless as a cognitive aid. It can, however, be entertaining, as long as one doesn't believe it gives any knowledge of any kind. Unfortunately (as I suspect) a lot of people do believe it, so they're fooling themselves (as people tend to do).

The problem is that the construction of any of the sets of 384 numbers is arbitrary. That would not be a fatal objection if the theory could be used to explain or predict, but it can't (in a way which withstands criticism). It doesn't predict or explain anything at all. -- Peter Meyer, author of McKenna's Timewave software




Even McKenna discounts his own hypothesis:

Quote:

Recently, while in Mexico at the classic Maya site of Palenque, I made the acquaintance of a young British mathematician and psychokinesiologist named Matthew Watkins. Watkins offered the strongest and most interesting critique of the timewave and the assumptions of its construction yet made. Watkins is confident that he has condensed the theory of the timewave into a formula (given below) and is further convinced that there is no rational basis for assuming that the timewave represents the fluctuation of any quantity which can be meaningfully understood as 'novelty'. -- Terence McKenna




And finally a few excerpts from McKenna's mathematician-friend Matthew Watkins's book "Autopsy for a Mathematical Hallucination":

Quote:

Strangely, McKenna's description of the derivation fails to yield the data points which appear in the appendix and which have been used since...

By the final discussion he [McKenna] seemed to have fully grasped the nature of the problem, and had admitted that the theory appeared to have "no basis in rational thought"...

As a mathematician who has met and talked with Terence McKenna, who is sympathetic with the majority of his other work, and who is only interested in spreading clarity, I must conclude that the "timewave" cannot be taken to be what McKenna claims it is. -- Matthew Watkins, mathematician




--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: Terence Mckennas Novelty Theory [Re: Diploid]
    #21279573 - 02/15/15 07:40 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

The delusions of reference are clear cut symptoms of schizophrenia related mental illness.  The whole "time wave" is a delusion of reference that even he eventually figured out was full of shit.


--------------------
L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

Edited by Cognitive_Shift (02/15/15 08:13 PM)

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InvisibleBreathlessVision
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Re: Terence Mckenna Novelty Theory [Re: Mind-Rip]
    #21281435 - 02/16/15 07:19 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Although Mckenna's theory was interesting and it is something that I enjoy thinking about - I can't help but think that his time wave theory was a bunch of arbitrary nonsense.

The novelty idea makes sense, out of systems come more complex systems etc..


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