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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Me, Not-Me
    #2127210 - 11/21/03 01:20 PM (13 years, 15 days ago)

*Drip, drip, drip*

Was sitting in the sauna a few days ago sweating profusely watching the water drip onto the wooden slats. Is/was that water part of my body? When is it part of "me"? When I drink it? When it becomes part of my blood and other fluids? Is urine no longer part of me when in my bladder or after I pass it? Perhaps the concept of all being one is not only metaphysical, but physical. All water is borrowed for a time; there really is not "my" water nor a specific time when I can say now it is part of my body and now it is not.

*Drip, drip, drip*

The moral of this diatribe is: do not do mushrooms in a public spa.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinesirreal
devoid
Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 1,775
Loc: In the borderlands
Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
Re: Me, Not-Me [Re: Swami]
    #2127219 - 11/21/03 01:23 PM (13 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
*Drip, drip, drip*

Was sitting in the sauna a few days ago sweating profusely watching the water drip onto the wooden slats. Is/was that water part of my body? When is it part of "me"? When I drink it? When it becomes part of my blood and other fluids? Is urine no longer part of me when in my bladder or after I pass it? Perhaps the concept of all being one is not only metaphysical, but physical. All water is borrowed for a time; there really is not "my" water nor a specific time when I can say now it is part of my body and now it is not.







If you buy into the idea that atoms communicate with each other, no matter the distance between them, then yes, everything is one. It is also happening at the same time.


--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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Invisiblechunder
marker

Registered: 08/11/02
Posts: 965
Loc: The City
Re: Me, Not-Me [Re: sirreal]
    #2127289 - 11/21/03 01:51 PM (13 years, 15 days ago)

Perhaps the concept of all being one is not only metaphysical, but physical.

Right on! I sometimes think about the currrents of energy that flow through us every day, invisible to our eyes. The air we breath, the food we eat, almost every action we perform is some small allegory for the model of "All is One".

Sometimes the interconnectedness of it all seems absurdly clear, but all too often we become engrossed in other dramas and forget to take time to stop and experience the infinitely gigantic flowing system that we are all a part of.

The process of conception and birth is also another good example of the Oneness of life.

Good post! Peace.


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Me, Not-Me [Re: sirreal]
    #2127298 - 11/21/03 01:53 PM (13 years, 15 days ago)

I think the "being" is merely a form. Its contents can change to the nth degree, but the form is relatively stable (i.e. recognizable).


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Offlinesirreal
devoid
Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 1,775
Loc: In the borderlands
Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
Re: Me, Not-Me [Re: Sclorch]
    #2127300 - 11/21/03 01:55 PM (13 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

Sclorch said:
I think the "being" is merely a form. Its contents can change to the nth degree, but the form is relatively stable (i.e. recognizable).





But it is all made up of the same stuff.


--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/08/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
Re: Me, Not-Me [Re: Swami]
    #2127348 - 11/21/03 02:14 PM (13 years, 15 days ago)

I was not doing mushrooms in a public spa, but was doing salvia while lying in bed. After smoking, I experienced myself as being both my normal self and the bed! The feeling was bizarre to say the least. I was alone, but I remember what I shouted then, to the cosmos, "You've gotta be kidding me!! I AM that?!"

When I pulled back the covers it was like pulling back my own skin (not in a painful way). It seems to be a trick of consciousness to identify ourselves with boundaries. And those boundaries are indeed fluid.


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I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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Anonymous

Re: Me, Not-Me [Re: Swami]
    #2127365 - 11/21/03 02:24 PM (13 years, 15 days ago)

Weak argument for Pantheism.  :lol:

We can speak about ourselves in many different ways.  In purely physical terms our bodies are our flesh, bones, organs, hair, etc.  I have never heard of bodily fluids being classified as a part of us.  They are merely passing through.

This has been a issue with the courts and their rulings followed the description I just explained.

Cheers,

MM


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Anonymous

Re: Me, Not-Me [Re: ]
    #2127369 - 11/21/03 02:25 PM (13 years, 15 days ago)

I think this is why they can't do mandatory blood testing or hair testing unless you are guilty of a crime. And then YOU have to decide to do it.


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Invisiblechunder
marker

Registered: 08/11/02
Posts: 965
Loc: The City
Re: Me, Not-Me [Re: ]
    #2127413 - 11/21/03 02:43 PM (13 years, 15 days ago)

Without bodily fluids, we wouldn't be alive Mr. M. So I think that makes them a pretty integral part of the definition of the physical self.

And screw the laws!  :grin:


--------------------


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InvisibletrendalM
point of inflection
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 19,376
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: Me, Not-Me [Re: chunder]
    #2127433 - 11/21/03 02:54 PM (13 years, 15 days ago)

Does anyone remember Dune?

The concept that the water in your body is only on loan to you?


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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Invisiblemuhurgle
Turtles all theway down

Registered: 10/29/03
Posts: 299
Re: Me, Not-Me [Re: ]
    #2127640 - 11/21/03 04:24 PM (13 years, 15 days ago)

Hehe. That's interesting. We could probably settle a lot of questions going by court rulings.


--------------------
"To make this mundane world sublime
Take half a gram of phanerothyme."

Aldous Huxley


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Me, Not-Me [Re: Sclorch]
    #2127651 - 11/21/03 04:33 PM (13 years, 15 days ago)

I think the "being" is merely a form.

So sclorch is a template that holds matter together in a certain way?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Me, Not-Me [Re: Jellric]
    #2127658 - 11/21/03 04:36 PM (13 years, 15 days ago)

After smoking, I experienced myself as being both my normal self and the bed!

I am cancelling my sleep-over at Jellric's house!


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Me, Not-Me [Re: Swami]
    #2127675 - 11/21/03 04:47 PM (13 years, 15 days ago)

to a hip-hop beat

*drip drip drip*

Well I was sittin' in the sauna,

*drip drip drip*

A man said "Hey, what's that on ya?"

(you add the next line)







--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinemanna_man
High onlife.....andcrack

Registered: 06/10/03
Posts: 481
Loc: Vancouver
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: Me, Not-Me [Re: Swami]
    #2127690 - 11/21/03 04:52 PM (13 years, 15 days ago)

What about a pregnant mother before and after birth?


On a similar note, philosopher John Locke argues that "you" is defined by your consciousness. In order for something to be apart of you, it has to partake of the same consciousness. For example, your hand is now a part of you because you are aware of it, in that you can control and feel it. Cut it off, and now ceases to be you.
He also argues that someone waking and sleeping are two different people, because they have different consciousnesses. If sleeping person managed to get out of bed (sleepwalk) and kill his/her entire family, then it would be unjust to punish waking person for what sleeping did.


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This post is protected under copyrite law.All above content is strictly the property of ?manna_man.Any infringement of copyright property is strictly prohibited.Any violators will be stretched, shot, and then vaporized into a state of anti-matter, where they will cease to exist.


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OfflineFlare
journeyman
Registered: 09/29/03
Posts: 71
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
Re: Me, Not-Me [Re: Swami]
    #2127701 - 11/21/03 04:58 PM (13 years, 15 days ago)

so everytime you alter ur self state of consciousness ur a different person ? like if u got drunk and killed someone you shoudnt get punished?


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InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/08/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
Re: Me, Not-Me [Re: Swami]
    #2127778 - 11/21/03 05:43 PM (13 years, 15 days ago)

I am cancelling my sleep-over at Jellric's house!

LOL !


--------------------
I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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Anonymous

Re: Me, Not-Me [Re: manna_man]
    #2128111 - 11/21/03 08:21 PM (13 years, 15 days ago)

For example, your hand is now a part of you because you are aware of it, in that you can control and feel it. Cut it off, and now ceases to be you.

if i hold a hammer in my hand, i am aware of it, and i can control it and feel it.

i cannot feel nor control my spleen. is it not a part of me?

it would seem as though by locke's statement, the hammer i hold is far more "me" than most of my internal organs.


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Invisiblechunder
marker

Registered: 08/11/02
Posts: 965
Loc: The City
Re: Me, Not-Me [Re: Swami]
    #2128313 - 11/21/03 10:09 PM (13 years, 15 days ago)

The Earths Magnetic Field.

I like this image. I can imagine a whole web of different energies, weaving together around the node of the earth. We're just a microcosm of the processes that are going on at celestial levels.


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Offlinemanna_man
High onlife.....andcrack

Registered: 06/10/03
Posts: 481
Loc: Vancouver
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: Me, Not-Me [Re: chunder]
    #2128530 - 11/22/03 01:21 AM (13 years, 15 days ago)

"if i hold a hammer in my hand, i am aware of it, and i can control it and feel it.
i cannot feel nor control my spleen. is it not a part of me? "

You can feel the hammer in your hand, but you cannot feel as the hammer, in that you can't feel the hammer's pain. You and the hammer do not partake of the same consiousness.
Your spleen is connected to your consciousness. I bet you'd be able to feel your spleen if it was infected or inflamed. True, you can't really control it, like make it flex or move or whatever, but subconsciously, your brain IS controlling it.



What about artificial limbs then? Or transplants? Think about that one.


--------------------
This post is protected under copyrite law.All above content is strictly the property of ?manna_man.Any infringement of copyright property is strictly prohibited.Any violators will be stretched, shot, and then vaporized into a state of anti-matter, where they will cease to exist.


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Amazon Shop for: Salvia

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