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Offlinebw86
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understanding how mushrooms work together
    #21268509 - 02/13/15 11:04 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

maybe i have lost my mind, maybe its sharper then ever:shrug:
So this is not intend to improve upon anything just a conversation. 
Im curious to know what you guys think about combing differnt species.
for instance casing cubensis with mexicana :facepalm: okay, so it wouldn't be a true casing layer but would the cubensis just not fruit?( i'm sure it would). Would the different species connect to each others myc?
would there be a difference if you applied the p mex at the same time you spawn the cube?
what if the p -mex is the bottom layer, will it make its way to fruit?

I think there could be some real benefits to a controlled poly culture, especially in outdoor growing.
Lets say i have a nice establish elm oyster or rugosu or w/e patch in my garden. would putting a cube patch in the middle of it be certain death?Or could that giant mass of myc actually be helping to channel water and or nutrients?


:dandyzoom:

Edited by bw86 (02/13/15 11:37 AM)

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InvisibleAbshroom
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Re: understanding how mushrooms work together [Re: bw86]
    #21268629 - 02/13/15 11:43 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

:threadmonitor:

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OfflineCuniairous
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Re: understanding how mushrooms work together [Re: Abshroom]
    #21268674 - 02/13/15 11:56 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Can't find the thread on here now but Muda I think did this cubes cased with oysters I know I seen a pic of it not long ago


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Offlinebw86
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Re: understanding how mushrooms work together [Re: Cuniairous]
    #21268712 - 02/13/15 12:06 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

pics are always great:thumbup: try and find the link
[/url]

so what going on under there??

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InvisibleJvF
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Re: understanding how mushrooms work together [Re: bw86]
    #21268723 - 02/13/15 12:10 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

:popcorn:


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OfflineCuniairous
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Re: understanding how mushrooms work together [Re: JvF]
    #21268734 - 02/13/15 12:15 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

The pic I seen was a cube cake cased in oyster then birthed I've been threw all my posts can't find it tho I'll keep looking


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Offlinebw86
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Re: understanding how mushrooms work together [Re: Cuniairous]
    #21272284 - 02/14/15 08:45 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

:notsureif:

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OfflineCuniairous
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Re: understanding how mushrooms work together [Re: bw86]
    #21272801 - 02/14/15 10:59 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

It happened bro


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: understanding how mushrooms work together [Re: Cuniairous]
    #21272869 - 02/14/15 11:16 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

I think that was oyster spores flowing into his grow. happens a lot when you dont harvest oysters before they sporulate all over.

but to bw's question, I think they'd rather be fighting or competing for survival and nutes/water etc in the tub rather than working together.

I figured you arent asking if they will mate and become a new species.

I base this answer solely on the pics I've seen on combined fruiting,
you never seem to get a full canopy of either species, so I think their competing more than helping each other.

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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: understanding how mushrooms work together [Re: spacechildo]
    #21272890 - 02/14/15 11:23 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

very closely related species might be able to mate in very rare or lab circumstances but probably wouldn't produce viable offspring for some reason or another. but crossing a cube and an oyster just won't happen. mules come from a donkey and a horse but the mule isn't sexually viable. but you can't cross a horse with a tiger for instance.

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Re: understanding how mushrooms work together [Re: bodhisatta]
    #21273011 - 02/14/15 12:05 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)



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Invisiblemustangbob3
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Re: understanding how mushrooms work together [Re: bodhisatta]
    #21273073 - 02/14/15 12:21 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
very closely related species might be able to mate in very rare or lab circumstances but probably wouldn't produce viable offspring for some reason or another. but crossing a cube and an oyster just won't happen. mules come from a donkey and a horse but the mule isn't sexually viable. but you can't cross a horse with a tiger for instance.




ive always wondered is say a monokrayotic mycelium of say cubensis in the wild was growing and 'bumped' into say 'azurescens' mycelium if they would swap some information and become dikrayotic so the cubes could fruit but the spore be sterile because of not being fully compatable.

i think some plants can be pollentated by a donor plant but the hybrid seeds be infertile, wonder if can happen with mushrooms?


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Offlinebw86
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Re: understanding how mushrooms work together [Re: mustangbob3]
    #21275971 - 02/15/15 06:54 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

no no no i wouldn't be making some noob assumption about mixing spores to get a new species.
i simply wanted to talk about the relationship between mushrooms and mycielum.

edit- i guess move this to advance mycology :shrug:

Edited by bw86 (02/15/15 06:55 AM)

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Invisiblemustangbob3
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Re: understanding how mushrooms work together [Re: bw86]
    #21275994 - 02/15/15 07:06 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

sorry you misunderstood, i didnt mean to make a new species. what i meant to say was- i wonder if this happens naturally in nature if by chance the two was growing but had none of its own species around.
like in some sort of attempt to survive and breed.
even if they could i assume they would be infertile/sterile anyway.

EDIT: would i be right in thinking infomation about if different myceliums 'share' captured nutrients or water between each other or is it a competition of who gets to it first is what your looking for.

like one can supplement another? in the way mycorrhizal fungi does water with plants for instance.


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Edited by mustangbob3 (02/15/15 07:20 AM)

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Offlinebw86
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Re: understanding how mushrooms work together [Re: mustangbob3]
    #21276001 - 02/15/15 07:10 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

i didn't say that in response to what you said. I said it in response the general feel of the thread.I thank you for at least sharing your  thoughts:thumbup:

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Invisibleblindingleaf
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Re: understanding how mushrooms work together [Re: bw86]
    #21276063 - 02/15/15 07:36 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

i think its understudied as far as indoor stuff is concerned.

outdoor could hold crazy possibilities though.  my friend is obsessed with chicken of the woods, and has tried several times to fruit indoors.  in the wild, many times trametes will grow right along with the COTW, possibly aiding in fruiting, so maybe a dual inoculation would be a cool experiment.

i have only done something like this by accident, and basically, i was stoned, and dropped two wedges in the same jar, one being reishi, and the other cubensis.  reishi devoured the cubes needless to say.  other than that, i've not really thought about it much.

a lot of permaculture people are into companion planting with the species u mentioned.  I'm mainly familiar with SRA and elm oysters being used, but I'm sure there are others we just don't know about or fully understand yet.


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MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!!

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Offlinebw86
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Re: understanding how mushrooms work together [Re: blindingleaf]
    #21298381 - 02/19/15 11:29 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Can i mod move this to the advanced forum, i would like to see if anyone has any thoughts/knowledge.I few things that come to mind when i think about this are.

primary/secondary decomposers
parasitic fungi(ones that eat fungus)
response to spores from other species

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OfflineMidwestPsychonaut
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Re: understanding how mushrooms work together [Re: bw86]
    #21298408 - 02/19/15 11:37 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

I believe this might have something to do with a link Munch sent me. Check this out.


Not 100%, someone more advanced could chime in. But in this video he's talking about different strains of the same species competing, even on agar. The plates he shows are pretty neat.

EDIT: Apparently it's known as the fungal zone of incompatibility?


--------------------

Not in cruelty, not in wrath,
The reaper came today;
An angel visited this gray path,
And took my cubes away.

Edited by MidwestPsychonaut (02/19/15 11:37 AM)

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Offlinebw86
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Re: understanding how mushrooms work together [Re: MidwestPsychonaut]
    #21298430 - 02/19/15 11:41 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

I need a plug in to display the content.You have a link? I am more interested in what happens between species. I wanna develop a good polycultre technique for outdoor beds
thank you for sharing.

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OfflineMidwestPsychonaut
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Re: understanding how mushrooms work together [Re: bw86]
    #21298468 - 02/19/15 11:50 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

bw86 said:
I need a plug in to display the content.You have a link? I am more interested in what happens between species. I wanna develop a good polycultre technique for outdoor beds
thank you for sharing.




Here ya go man Fungal zone of incompatibility Paul Stamets , and yeah, hopefully someone with more advanced knowledge will pull in, munch linked me to this when I was discussing crumbling cakes to bulk. Only reason I could come up with why is because i'm using MS KSSS to noc some jars that i'm gonna crumble to bulk, so there would be a lot of genetic info goin on, possibly causing slow colonization? Dunno. I've seen a lot of people do it, but not 100% if they were going off MS or clone/isolate


--------------------

Not in cruelty, not in wrath,
The reaper came today;
An angel visited this gray path,
And took my cubes away.

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Offlinebw86
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Re: understanding how mushrooms work together [Re: MidwestPsychonaut]
    #21298501 - 02/19/15 11:55 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

beautiful, thank you for a little bit of food for thought :thumbup:
:themoreyouknow:

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Offlineurthtown
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Re: understanding how mushrooms work together [Re: bw86]
    #21298548 - 02/19/15 12:02 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

OP are those your grows? the mexicana with the cubes?


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Offlinebw86
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Re: understanding how mushrooms work together [Re: urthtown]
    #21298586 - 02/19/15 12:08 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

yes

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Offlineurthtown
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Re: understanding how mushrooms work together [Re: bw86]
    #21298614 - 02/19/15 12:16 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

I have a pint of WBS galindoi and a pint of WBS cubes - both MS - that I haven't figured out what to do with yet. I'm up for a novelty grow and it'd be worth it even if I don't learn much for beautiful pics like those!

Do you layer or mix thoroughly?


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Offlinebw86
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Re: understanding how mushrooms work together [Re: urthtown]
    #21298692 - 02/19/15 12:31 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

i don't  remember :facepalm: it was years ago. I'm 99% sure i did not mix them evenly.

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Offlineurthtown
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Re: understanding how mushrooms work together [Re: bw86]
    #21303072 - 02/20/15 09:50 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

I'm wondering about this whole idea now. In that video Stamets points out that because the two mycelium samples joins seamlessly on an agar plate it can be understood to be the same individual. That is neat.

But there must be an ability for different individuals to share resources amongst the same species right? Two different individuals (different genetics) of the same species may show a 'fungal zone of incompatibility' but if they didn't communicate/share resources somehow then a MS grow like a mono tub would never work right? There are thousands if not tens or hundred of thousands of individuals in each MS mono tub grow but they fruit together.

Is there solid evidence that two species like P mex and P cubensis cannot share resources/communicate in a similar way? I kinda want to just mix these two pints evenly into some pasteurized coir and case it to see what comes up. I could easily calculate BE for this grow as well to see how it does. If it can get anywhere near the same BE output of a single species grow there must be some nutrient/h20 sharing going on right??


--------------------
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Veil Tear GIF
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"All mushrooms are edible, but some only once."
-- Croatian Proverb


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