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apsous
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Registered: 01/16/15
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Grow Bag (mycobag) Incubation Problems for Oyster Mushrooms. Mycobag conditions information .
#21252033 - 02/10/15 06:42 AM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Dear all,
This post is to discuss some problems I faced during my first big trial of Mycobags. What we are going to see is a problem that came up in 500 Mycobags (15kg each). Data: Incubation (Room): 1)temperature: 25 C (77F), 2)RH: 95% with misting the bags every 10 hours (to keep humidity levels of the room close to 85%) 3) CO2: 2500 ppm. Incubation Bag (inside the mycobag): 1) RH: 100% (water easily seen at the bottom), 2) Bag Center temperature: from 32C (86F) to 36C (96,8F), CO2: Couldn't measure. Those conditions were at the incubation room for 3 weeks. In the middle of the incubation, we saw in some bags mycelium (small growth) on the surface but after some days it was gone (surface temperature close to 27C/80,6F). After 14 days of "incubation" green mold appeared in some bags mostly on the surface of the bags (as photos attached, inner straw was clean). That's the data (most of them). P.S.: The spawn was bought from a Dutch company and it was used after 10 days of its "Used Before". Bag Diameter: 11" (28cm) and packed very tightly with green stripes (photos). Important notice: Holes were opened to the bag after 12 even 24 hours the bags were packed.
Questions: 1) Is it possible bad pasteurization? 2) Could be possible overheat of the spawn and that's why the center of the bags is clean from green mold? 3) When is optimum to cut the bags (open holes to the bags)? After spawning or after 10 days of incubation? 4) Since humidity is not so important in mycobags incubation, it is totally useless... What should be the RH inside the bag during incubation? 5) Is misting the bags necessary to have pin appearance? 6) The straw is extremely compressed especially in the center (As described it was tightly packed using green stripes and a machine to push them/ compress them in the bag). Could this be the reason for the center un-development of the mycelium? Like it couldn't "breath"? Could the delay for the holes cutting increased the CO2 levels inside ti bag and this affected the colonization as well? 7) Why green mold didn't develop in the inner environment of the bag as well and spread only at the surface? 8) Could it be the fact that the Spawn that was used, was not suitable since it expired already 10 days after its Best Before date? 9) Can I re-pasteurize (70C/158F-75C/167F for 1 hour) those bags and spawn run them again?
Here are the photos: General look of the Bags: Opened bag were you can see the center clean and the surface contaminated: Bag with Clean surface, some mycelium, and contamination (center clean again): Opened bags to see the center (spawn is easy to see as well): 



Edited by apsous (02/10/15 08:09 AM)
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Yerow
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Re: Grow Bag (mycobag) Incubation Problems for Oyster Mushrooms. Mycobag conditions information . [Re: apsous]
#21252185 - 02/10/15 07:34 AM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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You shouldnt mist your jars/bags when they are colonizing 
''Bag Center temperature: from 32C (86F) to 36C (96,8F)'' You telling me your bags had that temp while colonizing and/or fruiting? In any case that is waaaaaay to hot and will just promote mold growth.
''(water easily seen at the bottom)'' Not good either, you should have poked holes for water to drain, or let the straw dry up enough to not get water pooling
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apsous
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Re: Grow Bag (mycobag) Incubation Problems for Oyster Mushrooms. Mycobag conditions information . [Re: Yerow]
#21252285 - 02/10/15 08:07 AM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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"You shouldnt mist your jars/bags when they are colonizing."
- I stopped that since I saw that there was no reason for it.
"You telling me your bags had that temp while colonizing and/or fruiting? "
- Colonizing.
''(water easily seen at the bottom)'':
-After stopping misting, it stopped as well since no extra water was entering the bag.
1 usefull info: The bags where cutted after 24 hours. Can this cause any problem as well (CO2 levels)?
Edited by apsous (02/10/15 09:35 AM)
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RedRum42
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Registered: 01/05/15
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Loc: Minneapolis
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Re: Grow Bag (mycobag) Incubation Problems for Oyster Mushrooms. Mycobag conditions information . [Re: Yerow]
#21252416 - 02/10/15 08:57 AM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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What he said. Don't open your bags to mist (or at all) also don't cut the bags during incubation. Bags should be water-tight, and airtight minus a filtered hole for GE. keep temp 70-80, and way less moisture- it should be damp without any visible water other than very minor condensation. Humidity doesn't matter that much until fruiting time- though moisture needs to be consistent during incubation. Never have anything 'compact', substrate should be light and fluffy as possible.
Edited by RedRum42 (02/10/15 09:04 AM)
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apsous
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Re: Grow Bag (mycobag) Incubation Problems for Oyster Mushrooms. Mycobag conditions information . [Re: RedRum42]
#21252460 - 02/10/15 09:09 AM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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"keep temp 70-80, and way less moisture- it should be damp without any visible water other than very minor condensation. Never have anything 'compact', substrate should be light and fluffy as possible."
I stopped misting and I just keep my eye on the room RH to be close to 80% or higher. That way I won't worry about drying the straw inside the bag. I loosen the bags from the Green stripe as well in order to make it easier to "breath". We will see. I'm not impatient, even though I had to through away lot's of bags (and money) but I'm missing experience, that's why I post it to find out what went wrong.
Edited by apsous (02/10/15 09:15 AM)
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Yerow
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Re: Grow Bag (mycobag) Incubation Problems for Oyster Mushrooms. Mycobag conditions information . [Re: apsous]
#21252565 - 02/10/15 09:43 AM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yeah thats alot you have thrown out man. Makes my eyes hurt.
1, allow your grain jars/bags to colonize 100% IMPORTANT 2, pasteurize your straw. IMPORTANT 3, Take a plastic bag or whatever, fill one layer of straw in the bottom, gently pack it throughout the sides so it's even, then a layer of colonized grains, layer of straw, grains, straw. and so on. No need to use a machine and pack that straw as tough as you can in. Just drop it in, pack it slightly, and so on. 4, Close the bag, try to leave as little air as possible where you close it, then tighten it with some fishing line or thin steel wire, whatever you got at hand. 5, Poke holes all around the bag and a few in the very bottom, just in case water needs to run out. 6, wait! 7, fruit!
You do not need to overthink ''RH'' or anything at the stage you got to. Just throw the bags at a shelf in room temperature, as long as you are comfortable, they will be too. Take a look at your bag, if the straw appears moist. Condensation will always form and is fine.



This is after 3 days, just doing it as simple as i just wrote.
Edited by Yerow (02/10/15 09:53 AM)
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apsous
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Re: Grow Bag (mycobag) Incubation Problems for Oyster Mushrooms. Mycobag conditions information . [Re: Yerow]
#21252898 - 02/10/15 11:19 AM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yerow said:
5, Poke holes all around the bag and a few in the very bottom, just in case water needs to run out.
You do not need to overthink ''RH'' or anything at the stage you got to. Just throw the bags at a shelf in room temperature, as long as you are comfortable, they will be too. Take a look at your bag, if the straw appears moist. Condensation will always form and is fine.
:
What kind of holes and size of them? What if we re-pasteurize this straw and spawn it again?
I'm familiar with the meaning of RH etc and we have the ability to measure, that's why I'm asking. Waiting for more replies in order to trace the source of the problem.
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Yerow
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Re: Grow Bag (mycobag) Incubation Problems for Oyster Mushrooms. Mycobag conditions information . [Re: apsous]
#21252908 - 02/10/15 11:21 AM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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No, you should not re-pasteurize if you can see molds and whatever in them.. Even if you couldnt, i dont think it is a good idea.
I dont know what size the holes are, i just took a scissor and poked holes all around.  Probably do like 1/4'' holes or less
Edited by Yerow (02/10/15 11:22 AM)
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Yerow
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Re: Grow Bag (mycobag) Incubation Problems for Oyster Mushrooms. Mycobag conditions information . [Re: Yerow]
#21252937 - 02/10/15 11:28 AM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Your problems are pretty easy, you misted the bags while they were colonizing, possibly waterlogging the straw and just promoting molds and so on. I say this since you wrote you could easily see water pooling at the bottom..
Your temperatures, also promoting bad growth. Way too high, keep it at a comfortable room temp.
'' Bag Center temperature: from 32C (86F) to 36C (96,8F), Those conditions were at the incubation room for 3 weeks.'' 
Another reason might be that the bags were packed way too tightly, no way the mycelium in the middle could breath or make its way out maybe 
And last but not least, you tried to take a faster way through it: ''The spawn was bought from a Dutch company and it was used after 10 days of its "Used Before"'' 
Make your own from scratch, dont make so many bags, start out slowly.
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apsous
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Re: Grow Bag (mycobag) Incubation Problems for Oyster Mushrooms. Mycobag conditions information . [Re: Yerow]
#21252961 - 02/10/15 11:34 AM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yerow said: No, you should not re-pasteurize if you can see molds and whatever in them.. Even if you couldnt, i dont think it is a good idea.
I'll give it a shot and post it here.
Quote:
Yerow said: Your problems are pretty easy, you misted the bags while they were colonizing, possibly waterlogging the straw and just promoting molds and so on. I say this since you wrote you could easily see water pooling at the bottom..
Your temperatures, also promoting bad growth. Way too high, keep it at a comfortable room temp.
'' Bag Center temperature: from 32C (86F) to 36C (96,8F), Those conditions were at the incubation room for 3 weeks.'' 
Another reason might be that the bags were packed way too tightly, no way the mycelium in the middle could breath or make its way out maybe 
And last but not least, you tried to take a faster way through it: ''The spawn was bought from a Dutch company and it was used after 10 days of its "Used Before"'' 
Make your own from scratch, dont make so many bags, start out slowly.
We started to go slowly and we will see how it goes... From my point of view the expired spawn couldn't be the reason, but I'm not the expert.
More opinions are welcomed of course.
Edited by apsous (02/10/15 11:35 AM)
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Yerow
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Re: Grow Bag (mycobag) Incubation Problems for Oyster Mushrooms. Mycobag conditions information . [Re: apsous]
#21252979 - 02/10/15 11:40 AM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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NumeroEno
I come from the land of lizards



Registered: 07/24/14
Posts: 9,652
Loc: Gamehendge
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Re: Grow Bag (mycobag) Incubation Problems for Oyster Mushrooms. Mycobag conditions information . [Re: Yerow]
#21253031 - 02/10/15 11:57 AM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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I dunno OP. I have a quart of king oyster spawn that I'm gonna g2g to 6 quarts in a bag and then spawn to sawdust in 2 bags. If you'd like I'll post a start to finish grow log in gourmet and maybe that will help you troubleshoot.
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Let it grow! Let it grow! Greatly yield! What shall we say, shall we call it by a name As well to count the angels dancing on a pin Water bright as the sky from which it came And the name is on the earth that takes it in DOG FOOD AGAR MY ELECTRIC INOCULATION LOOP
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apsous
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Re: Grow Bag (mycobag) Incubation Problems for Oyster Mushrooms. Mycobag conditions information . [Re: NumeroEno]
#21253122 - 02/10/15 12:23 PM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
NumeroEno said: I dunno OP. I have a quart of king oyster spawn that I'm gonna g2g to 6 quarts in a bag and then spawn to sawdust in 2 bags. If you'd like I'll post a start to finish grow log in gourmet and maybe that will help you troubleshoot.
So far, I'm buying the spawn ready. My action takes place with pasteurization-spawning-colonizing-pinning-fruiting. That's the steps. So far I faced the problems I mentioned and pinning is another one but it is not for this post. Any information is use full I guess though...
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NumeroEno
I come from the land of lizards



Registered: 07/24/14
Posts: 9,652
Loc: Gamehendge
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Re: Grow Bag (mycobag) Incubation Problems for Oyster Mushrooms. Mycobag conditions information . [Re: apsous]
#21253135 - 02/10/15 12:27 PM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
apsous said:
Quote:
NumeroEno said: I dunno OP. I have a quart of king oyster spawn that I'm gonna g2g to 6 quarts in a bag and then spawn to sawdust in 2 bags. If you'd like I'll post a start to finish grow log in gourmet and maybe that will help you troubleshoot.
So far, I'm buying the spawn ready. My action takes place with pasteurization-spawning-colonizing-pinning-fruiting. That's the steps. So far I faced the problems I mentioned and pinning is another one but it is not for this post. Any information is use full I guess though...
Okay. Well first off straw is a trich magnet. You have to be flawless with your pasteurization to pull straw off. For oysters I'd recommend sawdust. You can get pellet stove fuel practically anywhere, and a 40lb bag will get you close to half a cubic yard of sawdust and costs around 5 bucks. Straw is one of the least forgiving substrates around and sawdust is one of the most forgiving
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Let it grow! Let it grow! Greatly yield! What shall we say, shall we call it by a name As well to count the angels dancing on a pin Water bright as the sky from which it came And the name is on the earth that takes it in DOG FOOD AGAR MY ELECTRIC INOCULATION LOOP
Edited by NumeroEno (02/10/15 12:30 PM)
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cronicr


Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
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Re: Grow Bag (mycobag) Incubation Problems for Oyster Mushrooms. Mycobag conditions information . (moved) [Re: apsous]
#21253145 - 02/10/15 12:29 PM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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This thread was moved from Mushroom Cultivation.
Reason:
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
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Re: Grow Bag (mycobag) Incubation Problems for Oyster Mushrooms. Mycobag conditions information . [Re: NumeroEno]
#21253189 - 02/10/15 12:42 PM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
NumeroEno said:
Quote:
apsous said:
Quote:
NumeroEno said: I dunno OP. I have a quart of king oyster spawn that I'm gonna g2g to 6 quarts in a bag and then spawn to sawdust in 2 bags. If you'd like I'll post a start to finish grow log in gourmet and maybe that will help you troubleshoot.
So far, I'm buying the spawn ready. My action takes place with pasteurization-spawning-colonizing-pinning-fruiting. That's the steps. So far I faced the problems I mentioned and pinning is another one but it is not for this post. Any information is use full I guess though...
Okay. Well first off straw is a trich magnet. You have to be flawless with your pasteurization to pull straw off. For oysters I'd recommend sawdust. You can get pellet stove fuel practically anywhere, and a 40lb bag will get you close to half a cubic yard of sawdust and costs around 5 bucks. Straw is one of the least forgiving substrates around and sawdust is one of the most forgiving 
Straw is not a trich magnet, shitty technique is wood is trichs favorite food, lime helps with straw though but some good dudes here will have some great input
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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apsous
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Re: Grow Bag (mycobag) Incubation Problems for Oyster Mushrooms. Mycobag conditions information . [Re: NumeroEno]
#21253193 - 02/10/15 12:43 PM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Okay. Well first off straw is a trich magnet. You have to be flawless with your pasteurization to pull straw off. For oysters I'd recommend sawdust. You can get pellet stove fuel practically anywhere, and a 40lb bag will get you close to half a cubic yard of sawdust and costs around 5 bucks. Straw is one of the least forgiving substrates around and sawdust is one of the most forgiving 
Ok but what is the cultivation differences between straw and sawdust. Take under consideration that I'm not planning to cultivate mushroom for my own use.
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NumeroEno
I come from the land of lizards



Registered: 07/24/14
Posts: 9,652
Loc: Gamehendge
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Re: Grow Bag (mycobag) Incubation Problems for Oyster Mushrooms. Mycobag conditions information . [Re: cronicr]
#21253194 - 02/10/15 12:43 PM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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I was told trich loves straw. I've never seen it on sawdust personally. I've gotta defer to your much greater experience though
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Let it grow! Let it grow! Greatly yield! What shall we say, shall we call it by a name As well to count the angels dancing on a pin Water bright as the sky from which it came And the name is on the earth that takes it in DOG FOOD AGAR MY ELECTRIC INOCULATION LOOP
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apsous
Stranger

Registered: 01/16/15
Posts: 72
Last seen: 9 years, 2 days
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Re: Grow Bag (mycobag) Incubation Problems for Oyster Mushrooms. Mycobag conditions information . [Re: cronicr]
#21253205 - 02/10/15 12:45 PM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
lime helps with straw though but some good dudes here will have some great input
More specific if possible?
I agree shitty techniq is Trichs favourite! That's what I'm planning to find out.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
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Re: Grow Bag (mycobag) Incubation Problems for Oyster Mushrooms. Mycobag conditions information . [Re: NumeroEno]
#21253207 - 02/10/15 12:45 PM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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It does love straw i was just poking lol....i used to love straw though
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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