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CosmicJoke
happy mutant



Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Re: Tipping [Re: hTx] 1
#21246953 - 02/09/15 07:08 AM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
hTx said: Most if not all servers make well below minimum wage (think 2.13/hr) which serves to pay the taxes on their tips..which they survive off of.
If anything the social custom of tipping is cheapness on the restaurants half. But its not your servers fault. If nothing went major wrong i always tip at least 15 percent because they honestly live off of tips..and some restaurants do a tipshare of 3-5 percent total sales. Which means if you do not tip, technically the server is paying for you to eat.
Point: your kind of a cheap asshole if you refuse to tip without solid reason. (Like the server ignoring your table)
Nah, it varies significantly by jurisdiction -all of the West Coast states make minimum wage + tips $9-9.45, $2.13 is the federal minimum tipped wage, pretty much all of the South goes by that, where the Midwest and Northeast states have laws to pay above the minimum wage, somewhere between $3-6.
http://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm
The great variance in minimum wage is just another shitty reality of the situation. Of course, we can just talk about how people who don't tip are assholes , but I imagine most of us are in agreement on this, the idea was to scratch beneath the surface here.... It's a hard thing to do when people are so enamored with how good they are.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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As bad as service is at many restaurants where tipping is customary, one can only imagine how much worse it will be where it isn't customary. Further, if it isn't customary, unless somehow somebody gets offended by being paid more, then the tipper becomes the hero.
Whatever happened to Tipper Gore?
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant



Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Quote:
LunarEclipse said: As bad as service is at many restaurants where tipping is customary, one can only imagine how much worse it will be where it isn't customary. Further, if it isn't customary, unless somehow somebody gets offended by being paid more, then the tipper becomes the hero.
Whatever happened to Tipper Gore?
I don't see why, if they had a salary instead, they'd still want to keep their jobs and get raises.. Sushi Yasuda, in NYC, has banned tipping - their employees get a salary and health care, their yelp review looks pretty good 4.5/5 w/ 1288 reviews:
http://www.yelp.com/biz/sushi-yasuda-new-york
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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Lakefingers
Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,440
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Post deleted by Lakefingers
Reason for deletion: No reason.
Edited by Lakefingers (02/09/15 07:49 AM)
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Lakefingers
Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,440
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Re: Tipping *DELETED* [Re: Rahz] 1
#21247039 - 02/09/15 07:43 AM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Post deleted by Lakefingers
Reason for deletion: No reason.
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant



Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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It varies greatly within this country, I've spent months in NYC and it was quite common place to call out when you are ready for your check... Lo and behold, they come give it to you. In the Midwest, people would sit and grumble about where the fuck is the waiter and judge how they're going to tip them. I don't anymore, I simply call out "check please"... It works .
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Personally I hate the big display of "oh how's your meal" that typically happens about 3 bites into it. The anxious ones always seem to time it just perfectly that you have a full mouthful then they stare you down and get impatient you don't want to talk to them that second. Is that the kind of service you like? Not me. Come by when it makes sense, not when it's annoying and disruptive. I'll let y'all know if the food sucks, trust me folks.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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Lakefingers
Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,440
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Post deleted by Lakefingers
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,485
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so, some of us like to complain about service and we all know they are paid very little and some of us (not me) have traveled to many countries and have experienced better and worse behavior by hospitality service personnel under regimes of varying legislation about tips in places around the world.
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Jockin John C
Trip Trappen



Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 1,091
Loc: outsideinsideout
Last seen: 5 years, 30 days
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I tip 20% out of social obligation. You have to really suck for me to short you. Sometimes when I'm feeling cheap I might short it a dollar. I usually tip $1 on drinks I get at the bar and think it is acceptable if someone tips under 20% say if they bought an expensive bottle of wine with the meal or something.
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Lakefingers
Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,440
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Post deleted by Lakefingers
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,485
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that's a generous warning, thanks
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,395
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Quote:
Lakefingers said:
Quote:
Rahz said: The only good point in abolishing tips is that an employee might be paying more into SS, though I feel certain most people who work for tips would find themselves making less. Many businesses would simply pay minimum wage. The trend is to pay out the least amount possible.
Let's assume that is the only good and correct point, then we have the underlying problem of wage legislation. Minimum wage is dismally low in the US, but changing it is difficult because the system is based on 'paying out as little as possible' and Americans have been disciplined into expecting to have to work in comparatively poor conditions for longer hours and for less pay just to stay afloat (Penelope_Tree made a thread, On the grind, about this a while back).
I don't see how this relates to tipping if doing away with it would generally result in servers earning less. Shouldn't the conversation be about how minimum wage should be increased?
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace I am I feel I do I love I speak I see I know āScience advances one funeral at a timeā ~Max Planck
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The Lizard King
Student Strawman



Registered: 12/23/12
Posts: 2,429
Loc: Babylon
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Re: Tipping [Re: Rahz] 1
#21251383 - 02/09/15 11:23 PM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Interesting thread.
I'm a waiter and I make $4.25/hour. As was already said, most waiters don't keep a lot of their tips as we have to "tip out" other workers as well.
Until we have a better system for paying waiters fairly, please tip (or at least let your waiter know that you don't plan on tipping beforehand).
Here's the history of tipping, as done by CollegeHumor.
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viktor
psychotechnician



Registered: 11/03/10
Posts: 4,293
Loc: New Zealand
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
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It's a bizarre custom and a relic from a more aristocratic age. I found it disgusting when I was in the USA and I'm glad almost nowhere else does it.
-------------------- "They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."
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Lakefingers
Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,440
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Re: Tipping *DELETED* [Re: Rahz] 1
#21251747 - 02/10/15 02:54 AM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Post deleted by Lakefingers
Reason for deletion: No reason.
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant



Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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On tangent, have you noticed how artists are being further pushed into what's comparable to a tipping sector? In an age of digital piracy, many musicians and authors are turning away from overly restrictive forms of copyright protection (DRM) and moving towards releasing their works for free under a creative commons license, which can be converted to any file format, copied and redistributed to others, etc.
Rather than fighting copyright wars, which they'll never win (all forms of DRM are inevitably hacked), they're embracing a new business model of giving their stuff away and accepting donations, which, imo, amounts to a tip. For some, like the author Corey Doctorow, this business model is greatly increasing his income, while preserving people's rights to do as they wish with their data (say convert their ebook from a Kindle format to some format for another brand of e-reader).
I don't think it's ideal for artists, but sometimes you have to adapt to the times rather than fight a losing battle.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant



Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Quote:
The Lizard King said:
Here's the history of tipping, as done by CollegeHumor.
Good find.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Man what a great idea that gave me. I'll go over to Portland by a busy Metro station, take my guitar and my big old fancy hat, and play for people who walk by. I bet a few might even drop in some $$.
Thanks.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,485
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Quote:
Lakefingers said: Raising minimum wages to free ineffectively rewarded service personnel from an ineffective, meager, discriminatory, irrational dependency on tips would incorporate these people into a more balanced, rational financial framework. Accordingly, minimum wage would be adjusted so that waiters would earn what conincidentally equates to a few dollars more per hour than what they earn (tips plus minimum wage) today. Like in many places, you could still tip if you wanted to and maybe a new tipping culture would arise, but there wouldn't be a dependency on irrational tipping and the average wage would still be higher for most people working in the sector.
The very system of tip-dependency is in stark opposition to what is considered a modern labor system in other sectors in democratic societies. Imagine paying your doctor, your lawyer, your mechanic, your ISP, your gas company, your babysitter, your university, your grocery stores, your banks, your creditors, your employees, etc. only because you thought it was "polite" or only when it "made you feel good." You'd get locked up or beaten up if you tried it and people would see you for what an elitist narcissist you are.
OP is about the custom and social obligation of tipping and its economic effect, so yes minimum wage is an underlying economic issue.
my narcissim has not been hiding, so this is not a problem, but I guess your motivation is strong.
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