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Offlinem4dScientist
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Help. I <3 my mother, but she's killing me.
    #21249947 - 02/09/15 06:23 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

I'll make this as brief as possible.

Due to some financial issues, I've been living with my mom for the past 4 months. I've always had a great relationship with my mother growing up, but as I've gotten older, I see how unhealthy her little quirks are n over the years they've started to bother me more and more.

my mom is highly sensitive and if I bring any of these things to her attention, I just end up feeling guilty because she takes everything so deeply personal. but the bitterness I have over my current living situation makes me very short with her, n I often cant even stand being in her presence. I feel like a horrible son for this, since shes always been my biggest supporter my entire life, but I cant help but feel like I just wanna be halfway across the world from her.

I find myself angry just being in the same room with her often, and I don't know what to do anymore as I cant afford to move out on my own at the moment. im sure someone here has been in this same position before. anyone who cares to chime in, itd be greatly appreciated.

thanks!!!

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OfflineSpacerific
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Re: Help. I <3 my mother, but she's killing me. [Re: m4dScientist]
    #21250273 - 02/09/15 07:16 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Dude, you can't even begin to understand how much truth you're speaking :biggrin:

I have a somewhat similar situation here, as in there's some overlap, but of course also structural differences. If it's OK with you I'll share, maybe it offers some insights on your situation.

Quote:

Due to some financial issues, I've been living with my mom for the past 4 months.



Same here, for about 2 months or so.

Quote:

I've always had a great relationship with my mother growing up, but as I've gotten older, I see how unhealthy her little quirks are n over the years they've started to bother me more and more.



Here the similarities end.

I found myself a few years ago (well around a decade actually) being a completely tense, anxious, trembling idiot, packing IMMENSE frustration at most, if not ALL aspects of life. Self-loathing to the max.

Then as I went to university and started gaining physical, and especially psychological distance from my family, I've started very slowly noticing something. I couldn't put my finger on it initially, but it's something like:

- many people were more patient than my folks
- many people were more emotionally caring, emotionally warmer
- many people were more fun, interesting, fascinating, playful

And the more I spent time around these people (whether IRL or taking in their audiobooks, lectures, seminars) the more I became calmer, more playful, more fun to be around, less stressed and stressful to others.

This was a process taking years and years, and over this past year, my full on solo bohemian travels in the NEtherlands, complete with tripping and meeting all manner of cool people and also assholes, it was like a full reset. I've cracked the code to being calm, to being happy, to prospering and thriving. Well at least emotionally :biggrin:

However, in various ways life brought me back here again living with my mom for a few months, as I prep more travels, and I've started noticing EXACTLY the same stuff as you do. '

- When around her, even small things that she does make me want to scream at her, curse, drop objects in anger, smash things, literally get very angry.
- When around her, most of my patience is gone. I am talking out the window gone. I can come here and spend HOURS posting stuff to help out some completely unknown anon, and that's fine. But for this female here, my patience is often gone in 2 seconds flat, and I mean physiologically. Frowning, angry eyes, increased heart rate, etc.

I'm sure you've noticed the same signs.

Now this was my normal state (ever-irritated) while my dad was alive and I lived among these people. When I first tripped (and briefly during sex) I would know what it's like to not be irritated, hateful, angry, ready to snap. I got a glimpse of calmness, and then larger and larger oases of calmness, I've even gotten glimpses of the eternal infinite ocean of calmness, and then I was brought back here.

Not as stupid as I left, far far from it. Now I have the super senses. I can see through other people, infer neurological activity and emotional dynamics through a myriad of signs and also I am WAY more careful with my own states as well. I know full well some of my anger is mine alone, not to be thrown on others or pointing fingers.

The reason I share all this is because my conclusions (and feelings) are quite different from yours. For instance:

- I don't consider myself a bad son for wanting to be physically away. I consider myself sincere. That's it. If she were a more likable person, I'd like her more.
- The anger impulses I have now, they're not a figment of my imagination, neither are they pathology. Now that I'm an adult and I can observe both myself and her, I am quite clear what's happening. This is a woman that's been rushing and nervously worrying her entire life. Nervous rushing people are careless. They behave in superficial ways. They disconnect early and reconnect rarely (emotionally). There was a FANTASTIC pattern of emotional disconnection going on in this house, probably with no connection to me or my behavior. These are people that never really hugged, they wasted TREMENDOUS amounts of worry on money issues, although we didn't really have any. Not really. Right now she lives in a huge house, 3 bedrooms 3 baths 2 kitchens 3 TV's and a gym/art studio, and never have we really lacked for much materially. But emotionally, holy fuck, this is as sub-mediocre and barren as can be.

- There's emotional blackmail, attempts at emotional blackmail and a COMPLETE disregard for psychological boundaries. A fucking endless fidgeting and worrying about shit that's WAY out of her area of jurisdiction to worry about. A certain endless neediness that I MUST like her because she's my mother, coupled with a need to at the same time fuck with me, trample on boundaries, break promises, seriously endlessly GENERATE drama. I know it's not intentional, but it is compulsory.

Examples would include making sure I'm always warm (and holy fuck, I am by default a guy that's SUPER mindful of body temp and insulation level, due to trips, no connection to her). Seriously I'm the first guy to start wearing gloves in autumn and hats and polartec vests and hoodies WAY before everyone else, and we've had COUNTLESS discussions about basically, BITCH, LEAVE IT! :mad2: and days later I'll see her fidgeting around that exact boundary again. talking of socks, hats, etc. It's an instant internal I HATE YOU CUNT DIE DIE DIE RIGHT FUCKING NOW :mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2: and on this fucked up disconnected behavior she expects that I like her.

Another interesting bit is that we have this dog, and it's ALSO a packet of nerves, just like when I was when I was young. Now she's getting more chill with me around, because unlike my family, I've learned the importance of physical closeness, and I take ample time to play with it, pet it, be chill, be relaxed. To my surprised this dog, although she likes me greatly, she had terrible fear of licking hands and fingers, and I know for a fact that's not how she used to be some years ago. Like all dogs (as that's how they express affection) she'd try to sniff and lick hands, fingers, play, be close. Well I wanted to dig deeper into this matter and started feeding her treats from the hand, and she would VERY ANXIOUSLY take them then run away. I asked my mom about this, and she said that she absolutely hates letting dogs (including her own dog, and her own two cats) lick her hands and fingers.

This is not a minor preference, this is a pattern of emotional distance, of not being present, of insulating oneself from present moments and true connection, and resorting to rules and laws instead. My dog should protect me cause I feed it. Not because we're close and truly like each other. Same for cats, same for everything.

So all in all I see the same problems you mention, but as I get it, in my life, the message from the universe is that I will get to the calm ocean of peace AFTER I learn to deal with these wound up nervous people that have HUGE problems accepting themselves and the present moment.

I've had some severely angry moments here as well, because the thing is, while she's around and I work on my tolerance of all her bullshit, the disturbances she creates prevent me from progressing with my art, from resting, the conflicts burn energy that I then later lack for other constructive interactions with others, but it is what it is. I'm probably going to have to pack and change cities in a few months, because although physically there's place for at least a full family in this house, she behaves in ways that just won't let others be :shrug:

So if I have some conclusions, they'd be:
- You're not a bad son for needing distance. IMO she's being a bad mom now, possibly (unintentionally) she planted emotional issues between you two years ago. Don't give yourself grief for wanting distance, that's normal.

- Notice what works, what doesn't, notice WHERE you're looking for support in her and get CONSTANTLY hurt, let down, disappointed, fucked with. Stop expecting her to change. Simply notice and DO NOT look for her support in that area. Throw out the window this BS idea that she's your mom and she should support you. That's pure theory and superstition. The practical reality is that she does some things well (like own a house) and others HORRIBLY badly (like understanding you, offering you space, respecting your boundaries, or even taking care of her own emotional needs, spending her time constructively).

As soon as you stop leaning on her (as you used to when you were a kid) you will start noticing tremendous strength and everything you need. As soon as you give her ANY energy, invest yourself emotionally and expect to be cared for in areas that she sucks at, you WILL be hurt and fucked with again.

Consider this: Imagine a guy that's been cut in the palm of his hand over and over and over. Now someone comes to shake hands with him, and he just snaps, screams in agony, punches things. If you didn't see the previous trauma to that region, you'd assume he's fucking crazy, as that's not a normal reaction to shaking hands.

Well psychologically, whatever small issues and tiny cuts our parents do, over years they can add up. Something that's tolerable over a year becomes excruciating over 2-3 decades. And WE DO have those scars to deal with. THEY DO heal by themselves (with distance, as you intuitively know as well) but that's at a premium when living in the same house.

So plan for distance. Plan for a time out in some weeks/months from now.

Until then,
- identify WHERE the cuts and scar tissues and sensitive areas are, and
- DEAL WITH THEM. YOU deal with them. Don't ask, don't comment, don't text, don't expect your mom to change one molecule in her behavior. YOU compensate for it. If she's a shitty talker, design around that. If she's a shitty cook, design around that. Stop expecting help because the cavalry isn't coming, not from her. Man up, become WAY more self-reliant and you'll find you have abundant inner resources.

Hope this helps. Oh and do plan your exit, travel, city change, what have you. Plan it and track it, count the days on the calendar. Anger is a powerful motivator :hellfire:


--------------------
Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.



For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it,
and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
- Matthew 13:16

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OfflineSpacerific
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Re: Help. I <3 my mother, but she's killing me. [Re: Spacerific] * 1
    #21250388 - 02/09/15 07:37 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

I'd like to add, I've seen this pattern in others, not just my mother, people who are restless and not accepting of themselves, trembling, and if you spend time around them they WILL at least attempt to unconsciously draw you in toward the exact same state.

The mechanism is something like:

- They're in a position of power over you
- They do something that's BEGGING for you to tell them bitch, you suck!
- THen you have two options. You tell them, and they get to go boo hoo, see? I loved you and cared for you and you're so mean, and they get to play the victim game OR you don't tell them how you really feel, and that creates that internal tremor inside you, the physical sensation of nervousness, elevated heart rate, you're basically having to fight against yourself, and while you do that, you're EXACTLY at their level. Tell me this doesn't sound extremely familiar, having to always censor yourself around your mom, as you instinctively feel she can't handle your real feelings.

I've noticed this at quite some lengths. There are people who habitually maneuver like this, and they always put others in a situation that offers 2 very bad options (snap and be angry, or protect their feelings by suppressing yours, in which case you'll start getting sick, passive aggressive, nervous like them, because you're sapping your energy, running conflicting neurological states against each other inside you).

This thing goes DIAMETRICALLY OPPOSED to what I've seen happening during both meditation and tripping, when one is sincere, seeks proper distance, goes towards fun people and away from tense annoying ones.

So what I'm saying is that there are people who really can't handle sincerity, they don't want it. They're upholding a fragile ego based on needy illusions and what they want is for you to respect and validate the little rules they base their value on (I'm your mom, like me whatever I do) and push you in this way, so that you burn your own power going against yourself. It's also a way of insuring dependency, because if you burn so much energy not snapping over something that should be snapped about, then you won't be able to thrive and shine profesionally and leave the home. They most certainly don't know they're doing this, but they are doing it (and very effectively I might add) nonetheless.

REad about Transactional ANalysis, or that book Games People Play, you'll :eek: about some shit, it'll be eerie how close to home it hits. I actually recommend this book because it gives some ingenious pattern breakers (lines that you can say and questions that you can ask that just break the game, they give the emotional blackmail away and put you back in control of your emotions).


--------------------
Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.



For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it,
and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
- Matthew 13:16

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OfflinePDU
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Re: Help. I <3 my mother, but she's killing me. [Re: Spacerific]
    #21250552 - 02/09/15 08:05 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

I can relate.

I am living with my mom for the next year and a half while I go to school, I don't have to, and don't want to, but financially it makes the most sense. It gives me the opportunity to focus on my studies, and not much else .... it also helps her out.

I've got a twist though - she is not well, has been dealing with a vague diagnosis of chronic pain for about 15 years now. Additionally, her husband (my stepfather) just passed away of Cancer a couple months back. Long story short - she's completely dysfunctional, NEVER ever follows through on anything she says she's going do (for example, still has christmas cards, with money sitting in them, to be sent out ... sitting on the kitchen counter.) She hasn't even got off the couch besides to use the washroom in 2 days!

It's ridiculous - she has tons of money, and can't even bother to get dressed. The only reason i go upstairs is to eat, and then she's right there, pausing the TV and rewinding it when i turn the sink on. Might tell me to wipe up around the stove or something.... It drives me crazy to see her like this. It's not right in any way - and I have to fight feeling all sorts of bad feelings towards her. I want to help her, but she is unreceptive. Sometimes i just want to scream. I have basically written her off.

I am actually going to see a counsellor at school to help me deal with this. It sucks, because I am essentially bound to staying here (not that it's bad, i've got everything i could want, besides a mentally stable mother.)

I don't know what to do. It makes sense that if you are bound to someone for financial reasons, and you disagree with them, there is a conflict of interests. In this situation, it is almost inevitable to feel deeply conflicted if there are any issues, because your hands are tied. Put up and shut up is how I feel, don't bite the hand the feeds you. :S


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GO OUTSIDE.

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OfflineSpacerific
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Re: Help. I <3 my mother, but she's killing me. [Re: PDU]
    #21250646 - 02/09/15 08:22 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Additionally, her husband (my stepfather) just passed away of Cancer a couple months back.



My dad died of cancer too.

Now at the risk of sounding a bit ghoulish, I think there's actually a connection between not expressing feelings and getting cancer. As I said, if we chronically, habitually go against ourselves and never express our true feelings (because those around us can't take them) then we block certain things (breath, tone of voice, and I highly suspect also parts of our immune system) that then makes the body MUCH more likely to develop cancer, or develop it earlier.

Here's a bit of a vid on it. It's kinda long, but IMO required viewing for all people living with others that are "difficult"



Quote:

Sometimes i just want to scream. I have basically written her off.



I've seen this stuff before, specifically with TV, with electronics. IMO electronics allow a certain kind of zombified emotionless existence that's neither alive nor dead, it's just crawling. If she didn't have that TV, she'd HAVE TO start going out, calling a friend over for coffee, something. Because there's that TV (or for other people it's computer games, or porn) then that makes it bearable to day after day wither away in apathy.

Quote:

not that it's bad, i've got everything i could want



So you have an awesome place to bring girls home, get laid, be inspired and thrive, make art, prosper, you have all that?

If you look a bit at how you feel/act with girls, after living with a mom in that situation, you should notice a distinct drop in awesomeness outdoors, compared to how you feel when living alone for instance. What we do and how we feel outdoors, how we interact with others, has a strong basis in what we have indoors, where we rest and eat. If there the atmosphere is depressing, stressful, annoying, spent, lifeless, then that's what we take out there. Good luck landing quality girls when you compete with peeps that are just living in awesome campus rooms, free to trip, smoke weed, laugh and sing and dance together, etc.

Just curious, to people in this situation (like you guys and myself) how do you feel it impacts how many friends you bring home? Do you in practice bring home as many friends and girlfriends as you would, if you lived alone? For me it's damn near wasteland levels. It has to do with location as well, but the things is I don't WANT TO bring friends here, because I don't feel welcome here. Why would I bring more people in an environment that bugs me? I see friends outdoors, but I have less energy than I would have, if I had a restful house to live in, without people fucking with me.


--------------------
Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.



For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it,
and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
- Matthew 13:16

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OfflineBjorn_Stormcrow
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Re: Help. I <3 my mother, but she's killing me. [Re: Spacerific]
    #21250802 - 02/09/15 08:52 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Its really not that strange OP. my mother and I discovered a long time ago that our relationship works best when we have at least one mountain range and the majority of a continent in between us. so long as we have that distance we get along fantastically. put us in the same room together and its a very different story.


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Live Mythically


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OfflinePDU
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Re: Help. I <3 my mother, but she's killing me. [Re: Bjorn_Stormcrow]
    #21251499 - 02/10/15 12:03 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Spacerific - I don't really bring people here. I am in limbo with a relationship right now, and wouldn't be "fooling around" with anyone around here anyways. I basically live in the boonies, and it's a decent drive from town ... Also don't have many friends, nor time to socialize!

However, to the point - NO. It provides me with food, a study space, places to exercise and pursue hobbies, and a bedroom.

It is not a home to me, it is a very comfortable house which i live in, but feel somewhat uncomfortable at all times in.

Sure, i'd like to live with roommates and get back into the world - but this is where I am right now, for several reasons and it's just the way it is.


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GO OUTSIDE.

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Offlinem4dScientist
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Re: Help. I <3 my mother, but she's killing me. [Re: PDU]
    #21251990 - 02/10/15 06:23 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

I haven't got to any posts yet except for @ space,

you mentioned above that our relationships differ in some ways, but reading through your post, I think our situations are a lot more similar than you think.

in my situation, I experience the same thing. ive already made mention of possibly moving across the country, where it would be more affordable to live since im in one of the most expensive states to live in in the u.s., but where does this get me? nowhere, but emotionally manipulated into feeling bad for her. she lists off the reasons why it would be a bad idea for me to move, and I would be leaving behind the only people who are TRULY there for me, my family. she also makes mention of how she would be so devastated if I were to move.

the drama? forget about it. everything with her is over exaggerated, when she hears of snow on the weather channel, oh boy. im told two days in advance to park my car across the street because its illegal to park on the one side when theyre plowing. this is mentioned 5 times a day in the days leading up to the snow. the day before, im also told that I probably must call out of work because the snow is so bad. she gets soo worked up, in all these HYPOTHETICAL situations in life, the snow being one example. its an endless need to worry about something, even when there isn't a need for it whatsoever.

im hoping things will begin turning around for me soon. ive been sleeping on the couch for 4 months now. and in this small apartment, the living room is the only room she hangs out in. which means when im home, im trapped in the same room with her all day long, although she knows I like my privacy and being alone, she continues to physically smother me. I just got a twin mattress from someone that I threw on the floor in a spare room so atleast now I can start separating myself from her a little bit. this was only 2 days ago, so im hoping the distance makes things a little bit easier on me.

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Offlinem4dScientist
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Re: Help. I <3 my mother, but she's killing me. [Re: Spacerific]
    #21252005 - 02/10/15 06:31 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Spacerific said:
I'd like to add, I've seen this pattern in others, not just my mother, people who are restless and not accepting of themselves, trembling, and if you spend time around them they WILL at least attempt to unconsciously draw you in toward the exact same state.

The mechanism is something like:

- They're in a position of power over you
- They do something that's BEGGING for you to tell them bitch, you suck!
- THen you have two options. You tell them, and they get to go boo hoo, see? I loved you and cared for you and you're so mean, and they get to play the victim game OR you don't tell them how you really feel, and that creates that internal tremor inside you, the physical sensation of nervousness, elevated heart rate, you're basically having to fight against yourself, and while you do that, you're EXACTLY at their level. Tell me this doesn't sound extremely familiar, having to always censor yourself around your mom, as you instinctively feel she can't handle your real feelings.

I've noticed this at quite some lengths. There are people who habitually maneuver like this, and they always put others in a situation that offers 2 very bad options (snap and be angry, or protect their feelings by suppressing yours, in which case you'll start getting sick, passive aggressive, nervous like them, because you're sapping your energy, running conflicting neurological states against each other inside you).

This thing goes DIAMETRICALLY OPPOSED to what I've seen happening during both meditation and tripping, when one is sincere, seeks proper distance, goes towards fun people and away from tense annoying ones.

So what I'm saying is that there are people who really can't handle sincerity, they don't want it. They're upholding a fragile ego based on needy illusions and what they want is for you to respect and validate the little rules they base their value on (I'm your mom, like me whatever I do) and push you in this way, so that you burn your own power going against yourself. It's also a way of insuring dependency, because if you burn so much energy not snapping over something that should be snapped about, then you won't be able to thrive and shine profesionally and leave the home. They most certainly don't know they're doing this, but they are doing it (and very effectively I might add) nonetheless.

REad about Transactional ANalysis, or that book Games People Play, you'll :eek: about some shit, it'll be eerie how close to home it hits. I actually recommend this book because it gives some ingenious pattern breakers (lines that you can say and questions that you can ask that just break the game, they give the emotional blackmail away and put you back in control of your emotions).




space, this was as spot on as could be.

the fact that I have to withhold my emotions in fear of hurting hers, does create this inner turmoil that makes me a shaky, angry mess. and I withhold this reaction because 1) I will only be manipulated into thinking theres something wrong with me for having these feelings and 2) that im somehow irrational, or ungrateful of the things she has done for me.

I may just check out that book, because Im scared this situation is slowly but surely destroying our relationship.

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Offlinem4dScientist
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Re: Help. I <3 my mother, but she's killing me. [Re: PDU]
    #21252021 - 02/10/15 06:39 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

PDU said:
In this situation, it is almost inevitable to feel deeply conflicted if there are any issues, because your hands are tied. Put up and shut up is how I feel, don't bite the hand the feeds you. :S




that theory does make sense. and I agree with it to a certain extent. but I don't believe stuffing and stuffing emotions deep down inside is a good idea. this creates an inner tension that will continue to build until you explode one day. I try to remind myself to be grateful, that I have a roof over my head for free, but it can be difficult when all you want is some alone time which seems hard to come by in this environment.

I guess im mad at myself in a sense which causes even more chaos. im 28 years old and I really have NO direction in life, and not to mention I just lost my job of two years the other day. im having a problem humbling myself and grabbing any old job to pay the bills

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OfflinePDU
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Re: Help. I <3 my mother, but she's killing me. [Re: m4dScientist]
    #21252380 - 02/10/15 08:44 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

In my case I am not "holding it in" with regards to my living situation. I am very greatful. However, I am mad at my mom for throwing her life around - she's 53, rich, and sits around in her house coat all day feeling defeated by quasi illness which I am sure she can work to overcome.

Any personal interactions that we have, frustrating as they are at times, are just a slight annoyance when compared with the deep disappointment and frustration regarding her situation.

Our situations are different, but similar.

I am 29 btw - although am living at home so i can go to school, feeling pretty driven these days. Eating humble pie though.


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Offlinem4dScientist
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Re: Help. I <3 my mother, but she's killing me. [Re: Bjorn_Stormcrow]
    #21252506 - 02/10/15 09:26 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Ulfrick said:
Its really not that strange OP. my mother and I discovered a long time ago that our relationship works best when we have at least one mountain range and the majority of a continent in between us. so long as we have that distance we get along fantastically. put us in the same room together and its a very different story.




that is the EXACT same situation as with my mom and I. only IM the only one who sees it from that perspective. my mom is an EXTREMELY codependant person, who would rather live in a toxic environment as long as there are others to enmesh herself with, than live alone and be free of stress n tension. its fuckin sickening. but back to your point, when I lived across the country for years, we had a great relationship.

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Offlinem4dScientist
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Re: Help. I <3 my mother, but she's killing me. [Re: PDU]
    #21252523 - 02/10/15 09:30 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

PDU said:
In my case I am not "holding it in" with regards to my living situation. I am very greatful. However, I am mad at my mom for throwing her life around - she's 53, rich, and sits around in her house coat all day feeling defeated by quasi illness which I am sure she can work to overcome.

Any personal interactions that we have, frustrating as they are at times, are just a slight annoyance when compared with the deep disappointment and frustration regarding her situation.

Our situations are different, but similar.

I am 29 btw - although am living at home so i can go to school, feeling pretty driven these days. Eating humble pie though.




our situations are much different, lol. you actually seem to be quite content with your living situation, where spacerific and I seem to battle this turmoil on a daily basis. you seem more upset at the fact that you cant control your mothers behavior. me and you actually had this talk a while ago, but I can see how frustrating that could be.

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Re: Help. I <3 my mother, but she's killing me. [Re: m4dScientist]
    #21253274 - 02/10/15 01:00 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

m4d mate, please take the time to watch the video I posted. If you do nothing else of value that day, with those 30 mins, watch that video. Take it offline if you have to, put it on an mp3 player but watch it.

What I can tell you is that it can get better. If you actually take time, not to snap, but to explain, here are my boundaries. Get her confirmation that she understands. You'll see she doesn't want you to have clear boundaries, she'll sort of say a half-voice ok :rolleyes: and breathe out in disapproval, but if you actually do set boundaries, like mom, we're done with the car. We'll not speak of where I park my car ever again. It may bring some conflict, but it'll take away the power from that particular game.

SHe WILL look for other things to do this with, but if she sees that whatever she does, you start putting in place actual mature boundaries (psychologically) as opposed to reverting back to suffering child mode again, then your boundaries will actually trigger her to start acting more mature as well, less emotionally draining and blackmailing.

But it starts with you. Not asking, not seeking approval, like is this OK with you? But simply stating it. If it's your car, just claim it. Fully. If not, then take some other boundary. Your room with the mattress. Whatever boundary you can actually defend, defend it, lock it, be at peace with it there. TAKE SPACE that's yours, that's yours alone. Push her not at the very boundary, fidgeting and fucking with it, but actually SOME DISTANCE AWAY so you can breathe VERY easily. Take space in which you can go phew! :biggrin:

I hope you have some time to look into this, if you do please watch the vid I posted above, and you'd also benefit greatly from learning about boundaries, from this guy called Dr. Paul Dobransky. He has a few programs (audio) and also vids on youtube, lectures, etc. Amazing guy. One of the 3 therapists ON THE PLANET that I actually trust with my head. Other two are CG Jung and Paul McKenna, but Dr. Paul is also way up there, he's awesome.



Enjoy, and kudos on the new room with the mattress, mattresses are awesome, I love'em :thumbup:


--------------------
Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.



For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it,
and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
- Matthew 13:16

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Re: Help. I <3 my mother, but she's killing me. [Re: Spacerific]
    #21253595 - 02/10/15 02:27 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:


you mentioned above that our relationships differ in some ways, but reading through your post, I think our situations are a lot more similar than you think.



Well indeed the situations are similar, what I'm saying is that IMO, for me at least, I've been put in this situation to deal with it constructively, to learn to deal with this kind of interference, so that I can get to the next level.

See, I want certain things from the psychedelics, and so far they've been giving me ample treasure. They've shown me super powers, super senses, super speed, strength, perception, tricks of the mind like attracting females, all manner of magic that actually works IRL, that current mainstream science is completely stone age about, they have no idea. None. So I've been shown what's possible. But then there's also a cost for it, that to access these abilities, one has to learn to actually pay attention to what's happening, FAR DEEPER than the superficial surface level, and also to work on those deeper levels.

It connects to archetypes that we have, boundaries, needs, electrical functioning, emotions, everything. And all the hints and messages I got are telling me that it's 100% ludicrous to keep chasing festivals, enlightenment, super senses super powers, what have you, WITHOUT dealing with the past, dealing with people who need help from those extra perceptions.

So in other words, it's very much doable, that a guy retreats from most sources of interference and stress, trips a few times, breathes and takes in the wisdom, works on himself and clears his stuff pretty good. This WILL strengthen electrical functioning, you WILL be better faster stronger, calmer, more perceptive (you'll literally see and hear more, infer neurology and truth from very faint hints, like vocabulary used). That is all doable. But the universe asks, if I give you peace and power, what will you do with it? Hoard it? Run away with it, OR come back here in the mud and share it, Boddhisattva style?

So I know for a fact that as soon as I've completed this level (be able to live with a very disruptive mom that has all manner of emotional crap running, for decades, maybe for her whole lifetime) - as soon as I can do my inner peace stuff even to a moderate level in this aggressive context, I'll be given more tools and gifts and access to festivals, travels and adventure. But ONLY if I can respond to stress with peace, bring long attention span where others bring it short, bring deep analysis where others are superficial. This has nothing to do with my mom at all, it's between me and the universe at large. It's a test of patience, of practicing what the trips have shown is good to practice. A LOT of overlap between this stuff and Buddhism, and (as much as I am amused by it) even the Bible.

'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.' - Matthew 25:40

The universe wastes nothing. You use the muscles, you get extra strength and health. You idle, you start withering, those proteins and stuff go to other beings in the ecosystem. It's the same on a neurological level, if you use patience, the universe will start giving you more ways and reasons to use it. If you use joy, patience, good design, acceptance, you'll get more and more things to practice on. But if you use anger, stress, frowning, short attention span, monkey behavior, more of that will find its way to you. So the question is, what do you really want to be made of? Attachment? WHining? Snapping? Temper tantrums? How thick is your armor? How much stupid can you handle, before you break down? Will you deal with whatever's given, OR start cowering in fear, wallowing in self pity, shame, boo hoo and all that?

I know this stuff because I've done A LOT of the monkey behavior and victim games as well. Now I just know that that's the challenge of the game. Do you have anything better than that, and if so what? Are you better than the crap around you, or made precisely of it?

So that's what I was pointing out, that difference. That this kind of stress we find ourselves in, it's not some waste or some tragedy. It's the anvil that we learn these neurological skills on, it's the training grounds, because later in life, and more importantly after this life, we'll need a ton of skills and compassion and energy tools, to deal with the adventures that lie ahead. I've seen the psychedelic wonders and would love to have them today, but I know I won't, until I learn to deal with the drunk, the moron, the superficial idiot. None of them are sent my way without reason. They're there to test if I'm ready and truly walking the walk.

By all means if your nerves are spent and worn down now, find a way to move away, get some distance for at least a good couple of months. You need to recharge, your mom needs to make her own choices. Start living life together with other people, or release herself into more apathy, TV, electronics and basically slow death. That's her choice, you can only provide some support, you can't make it for her, nobody in this whole universe can, as we all have free will to use our energy and attention precisely as we like.

So take distance, and know that at some point you'll be given more of these emotional draining people to deal with, some like your mother, some only partially (lighter versions, easier level) and some much worse. Being able to help them then, is based on your dealing with your mother now. So by all means start observing your reactions, her actions, the signs, the tone of voice, breathing and movement patterns, you WILL need this stuff throughout your life.

If you ever start a family of your own, knowing how to thrive is THE base for helping them thrive. Missing signs when they start acting stressed, drained, irritated, will be the basis for them falling and you not being able to help them, as you're not strong/well trained/perceptive enough to do it. The perception to do that is trained in situations like you have with your mother, and it's always a choice of perceive, take it in and analyze, or start making more noise, cut analysis short, disconnect and go on your own tantrums and self-defense related fears. That's the game for all of us, all the time. All living things I mean, regardless of age gender species.

I've been VERY angry for a lot of my life, because my folks had such poor skills at internal thriving, sincere open sharing and internal emotional alchemy, but now I also know that that was my starting point. If I had a better family, I NEVER would have put in the time and courage to venture so far into adventure, Ayahuasca, tripping, traveling, psytrance, retreating in nature, exploring these methods. I never would have found the magic that I did, and the amazing things that are sure to come. 

You'll learn your own magic stuff sooner or later, then you'll look back and see how these current challenges prepped you to take that specific journey. It is connected, you're not being put there just to be drained and ruined. You're just building a thick skin, you're learning. Make sure you don't harden up completely, stay soft and cheerful/colorful on the inside, or life isn't all that worth living. Good vibes :biggrin:


--------------------
Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.



For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it,
and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
- Matthew 13:16

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Offlinem4dScientist
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Re: Help. I <3 my mother, but she's killing me. [Re: Spacerific]
    #21253689 - 02/10/15 02:46 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

space, well said my man. n yes, mattresses are awesome, especially when you spend 4 months sleeping on a couch that you are to big for!  :biggrin:

but a few of the things you said definitely hit home for me. I try not to, but often fell prey to the victim role as you said. ive always taken responsibility for the decisions ive made which got me to the point im at in life right now, although sometimes its hard for me NOT to wonder how things could've been different if my mother hadn't manipulated me into moving around the country with her when she was trying to figure her own shit out. I know im the one responsible for getting hooked on drugs n alcohol, ending up in rehabs and getting multiple dui's, dropping out of college and really having no direction in life. this is the result of the decisions I have made, but I cant help but wonder how my life turned out if I would've just stayed where I lived as I wanted to after highschool.

I am grateful for my mother. had it not been for her, I probably would've been dead or in prison a long time ago. shes always been my biggest supporter and is the one person I can really go to for ANYTHING. BUT, at the same time, I wonder how different my life would have turned out, if all these unhealthy behaviors hadn't been bred into me at an early age. going back to the responsibility thing. I take responsibility for my actions, yet certain behaviors are adapted as children, from witnessing our parents actions.

all in all, youre right. this is mere preparation for the much larger obstacles in life. and I could benefit to practice some more patience, in all aspects of life. a large part of it is me being angry at myself. and unfortunately in situations like these, we often lash out at the people closest to us. I definitely will take your advice to heart, and see how I could improve on the situation.

:thumbup:

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Re: Help. I <3 my mother, but she's killing me. [Re: m4dScientist]
    #21255095 - 02/10/15 07:20 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

I take responsibility for my actions, yet certain behaviors are adapted as children, from witnessing our parents actions.




Dude I can positively tell you that MOST of the things I learned at home, were bad habits. Like seriously I look at all the shit I know now, in ANY area of life, from cooking to speaking to thinking to writing to painting to dealing with girls and other humans and animals, ALL of it I've learned from trips or from other people, and usually I've had to un-learn bad habits that I had from home.

Bad habits like:
- rushing, being short-attention-span
- rigid thinking, believing completely bullshit rules and "truths" that just aren't so
- snapping at people or at myself
- self-criticism
- victim mentality

All this took YEARS of living away from family (living on my own, jobs in other cities, or traveling around Europe) and ONLY THEN have I found how life can actually be.

The only thing I can say is leave it with the past, stop playing games in your head, endles woulda beens coulda beens shoulda beens. THat's gone. Those are trains that left long ago. You're here now. You have PLENTY of potential to make AWESOME things happen in your life. Just get some boundaries, some space to think freely in (like your new room) and start getting more people in your life.

IMO we're just folding external stimuli. What you put in (food, information, psychedelics, TV, booze, meth, good vibes, bad vibes) is EXACTLY what you'll fold inside yourself and put out later.

Get more positive people in your life, spend MUCH more time with them, than with your mother.

Get more positive hobbies in your life. Go to the library more. Go do martial arts or whatever, do not be physically in the house. If budget is an issue, always look to the library, they're free. Go draw there. Go listen to music on your mp3 player there, just DO NOT be inside your house alone with your mom any more than you have to.

When you have to (or want to) then yes, show up and make some quality time together. Cook something nice, put on some music instead of the TV and ask how she's doing, or start getting her engaged in some nice artistic hobby. Anything. Bring home some stuff, some knitting needle and thread and a knitting book or magazine or whatever they make about knitting these days. Or painting or anything. No need to push, but make them available. No idea, but always assume there are positive options to take, and just look for them. They're bound to be there :thumbup:


--------------------
Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.



For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it,
and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
- Matthew 13:16

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Re: Help. I <3 my mother, but she's killing me. [Re: Spacerific]
    #21257520 - 02/11/15 08:49 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

I have the same relationship wih my mom, minus the living wih her part. I do live close, though, only an hour away. She just told me that she is scheduling an appointment with a family therapist and what day works best for me? At first I was relieved - yay finally a professional will help us sort this out, but now I'm apprehensive, thinking this is just another ploy to further "enmesh" herself into my life. Basically I just want her to get her shit together and stop using me as emotional validation for her existence, and then Using fear, guilt, and blame when I don't engage in her games.

I take the same stance as Spacerific- without the hardships of the relationship with my mother, I wouldn't be who I am today (in the sense of an aware and emotionally intelligent individual), and focusin on the gratitude is important. However, it doesn't have to be guilt ridden.


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full blown human

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Re: Help. I <3 my mother, but she's killing me. [Re: Penelope_Tree]
    #21257712 - 02/11/15 09:53 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

those are some good points guys. and Penelope, that's exactly what it all is in the end. a ploy to further enmesh themselves into our lives, but in my case, in the most unhealthy way possible. it comes down to bribery, and manipulation, to assure her existence in my life. and she refuses to see the unhealthy characteristics of our relationship, as long as she is exactly THAT, enmeshed, shes okay with herself. its quite sickening actually.

and space, youre totally right. keeping busy is what I need to do. I lost my job a couple weeks back so its been hard for me lately. I often just hop in the car in the morning and drive around for an hour or two. but the library is a perfect idea. my brain has probably been less active as of late as it is. and I think just being out of the house is probably what I need at this point to relieve some of this bubbling frustration.

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Re: Help. I <3 my mother, but she's killing me. [Re: m4dScientist]
    #21259171 - 02/11/15 03:25 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

I often just hop in the car in the morning and drive around for an hour or two.



Dude, it's teh car that got me about 2-3 years ago. I was between jobs, or more actually not sure what to do next, as I no longer do 9 to 5 jobs (I mostly freelance, I can't/don't want to handle the square heads). So there I was between gigs, and since back then I wasn't bicycle-enabled, AND we live in the suburbs, my only way to get out in the city was my car.

BUT the car costs money to run, I had my pride and only spent the money I made myself, and so basically, slowly but surely, without me noticing, over weeks and then months, apathy and inactivity creeped in. I got out less, there was always this slight irritation/fear regarding gas money, that it's either

A) Money I don't have or
B) Money that I have to freelance for, doing shit I don't like doing,

So I spent more and more time at home indoors, doing things like:

- Being on my computer (porn videogames useless surfing, Facebook youtube whatever)
- Painting in my studio, but without a girl in my life, no massage on my shoulders and no romance and sexy times and laughter to inspire me and cheer me up, the painting would be hours upon hours wasted, frowning, worrying, insecurity put on canvas then covered over in anger and frustration. Basically I was literally practicing bad habits, how NOT to paint, breathe and think. Completely self-inflicted, easily avoided if I'd just been bike enabled and had a bike.

So consider INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT factors:

- Lymph movement. Your lymph moves when you move and pretty much only then, as it has no heart to pump it. You don't have sex or work out or walk around doing shit, out there, your lymph system works at partial capacity, you're living with more toxic crap in your body, and this WILL affect your mood, ability to think clearly, before you know it you'll get closer and closer to the thought patterns of your mother. THis is one HUGE aspect of the brain slowing down thing that you're sensing, brain being less active. It's not just your brain, it's your whole body. Same for oxygen, that you just don't get enough via apathetic shallow breathing. Not like when lifting, sprinting or banging some lovely girl(s).

- EDSO Start tracking ALL FOUR of these fuckers, and notice how they degrade if you're not exercising, not involved in a team (As you would be at work), don't achieve as many goals for Dopamine and don't hug/kiss/have sex for Oxytocin. Basically what's happening is that instead of a vibrant cycle of releasing all 4 reward chemicals, you start relying more and more on Dopamine alone, namely Dopamine derived from eating food. You eat more, you start craving more sugar (as that releases more dopamine) and it just becomes all blah. Spend a few weeks in this state, then once your internal chemistry is fucked, your EDSO is shot, your electric field is flimsy as a dying 99 year olds', then from that state good luck competing with other males for the time of day of awesome females :lol:

- Daylight. This exercise - moving outdoors under bright daylight, either in nature or among other cool people, this is worth its weight in gold. If you skimp on this (that is, either stay indoors for too long, or get out only evenings/nights because your sleep cycle is fucked) then that will further slow you down, get you back to crawling mode.

Notice that these three factors are what a bunch of people do wrong, and instead of looking for ways to start doing them (more outdoor time, more exercise, more sunlight, sex, team involvement, goal and dream achievement) - what they run to is
- therapist
- pills

So by all means consider getting a bicycle, buying a second hand one or something, and then using it (if feasible) while at the same time listening to positive self improvement material (Wayne Dyer, Stuart Wilde, Jim Rohn, Manly P. Hall, Paul Dobransky, whoever you like) and go to the library to start getting your thoughts in order, your ducks in a row. If you have a laptop, take it over there and do job searching in that environment, it will be LOADS more productive than back home. Even before the bike, you can get some running shoes and start working on some sort of outdoors sprinting habit, especially in the morning. Some short sprints and a few push ups can set the awesome tone for your whole day. Give it a shot :thumbup:


--------------------
Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.



For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it,
and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
- Matthew 13:16

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