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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,916
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Ok Violet, you're next [Re: Psilicon]
#21359726 - 03/04/15 07:21 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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I'm just giving my 2cents. I'm still waiting for someone other than violet to post some nice results. pastywhyte had the best results out of anyone other than violet who has tried
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19219682#19219682
I suggest anyone try it out if they want.
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Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


Registered: 08/26/12
Posts: 7,057
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
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Re: Ok Violet, you're next [Re: bodhisatta]
#21359785 - 03/04/15 07:40 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: I'm just giving my 2cents. I'm still waiting for someone other than violet to post some nice results. pastywhyte had the best results out of anyone other than violet who has tried
Nah, mine was better than Pasty's. It was in the original V-tek post, but I think Violet got pissed at me and took it down. 
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,916
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Ok Violet, you're next [Re: Psilicon]
#21359810 - 03/04/15 07:46 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Guardian187
Neophyte


Registered: 11/29/14
Posts: 716
Loc: Center of the Universe
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Re: Ok Violet, you're next [Re: bodhisatta]
#21359908 - 03/04/15 08:10 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Nice fruits!
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FreeWorldOrder


Registered: 12/24/13
Posts: 2,002
Loc: Indiana, USA
Last seen: 11 months, 20 days
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Quote:
Fuzz-nutter said:
Quote:
Mushroom_J said: The basic theory behind the fertilizer is that in cow fields.. they piss everywhere. It's not just cow poo. The urine has ammonia in it... ammonium nitrate i believe. And if you look at the main ingredient that they derive the nitrogen from... it's urea... at least with miracle grow.
First off, horse shit is what we want
second, they don't piss on their shit
third, we let the shit age for months before using it, long enough that any piss present is long gone
fourth, mushrooms are decomposers, you don't feed them the way you feed plants

And may add..... you do NOT want ammonia! That is one of the reasons we utilize aged (leached & dried) manure. The aging process allows the ammonia to leach out and evaporate away. The ammonia content would surely throw the PH way off and burn everything up....
I've heard of people using cow shit, but horse & sheep manure work so well I wouldn't bother with cow shit. JMO
-------------------- "They who can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin
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PastyWhyte's Easy Agar TEK
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,916
Loc: Milky way
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cow shit is like "the" substrate for cubes.
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Guardian187
Neophyte


Registered: 11/29/14
Posts: 716
Loc: Center of the Universe
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Re: Ok Violet, you're next [Re: bodhisatta]
#21359994 - 03/04/15 08:38 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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I wish poo was readily available here 
Edit: I didn't realize how inexpensive cow dung is online.
Edited by Guardian187 (03/04/15 08:40 AM)
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tourrat
humanbeinganimal


Registered: 01/16/14 
Posts: 394
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
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Re: Ok Violet, you're next [Re: bodhisatta]
#21360021 - 03/04/15 08:47 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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I think some of the vtek stuff has some merit . Particularly for testing cultures and such and violet you seem like a genuine sweet person.So please simply take this as constructive criticism and not as a bash because it is sincerely not meant to bash you ....but your means of delivery sound like a shady infomercial. Just sounds like you're trying too hard and I personally (as is human nature )automatically assume that someone is bullshitting me ( and that is usually the case) when they use hard sales tactics.
The bottom line is ,the effort and materials that are used in "bulk" methods are really minimal considering the eventual rewards ,your tek doesn't hold a candle compared to bulk methods as far as real production goes. And no amount of clouding the matter with nonsense facts and statistics is going to change that...no one cares about spending an extra three dollars on grains...or spending an extra three bucks on coir when they are looking for bulk production.
You would be way better off ( and get way better response) if you "sold" your tek as what it is....a GREAT way to test cultures....a GREAT way for the home hobbiest to try a bunch of different genetics.
The folks who make Honda civics aren't trying to take over the truck market..." but look you can fit a bale if hay in the back seat!" They know that truck people drive trucks because they love trucks...they focus their energies on the crowd that drives cars...civics are great cars!!!! But they aren't trucks...ya dig?
-------------------- Knee deep in the hotel tub.....
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FreeWorldOrder


Registered: 12/24/13
Posts: 2,002
Loc: Indiana, USA
Last seen: 11 months, 20 days
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Re: Ok Violet, you're next [Re: bodhisatta]
#21360099 - 03/04/15 09:08 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: cow shit is like "the" substrate for cubes.
I know brother...
Hence people picking wild ones from pastures.
I assume the ammonia has either broken down to nitrogen or evaporated off when considering a dry cow pie...lol.
I was just referring more to the ease of use of h-poo and sheep-poo. Every county fairground and local horse stable usually has all the horse shit a person could want free for the taking.
Sorry for the confusion. I honestly believe that wet, ammonia laden manure was in itself, bad for use as a substrate until thoroughly leach and preferably sun dried (to dissipate the ammonia)...
My apologies...
-------------------- "They who can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin
Lets Grow Mushrooms Videos
PastyWhyte's Easy Agar TEK
Agar's Liquid Inoculant TEK
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up



Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 19,243
Loc: Babylon
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
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Re: Ok Violet, you're next [Re: tourrat]
#21360100 - 03/04/15 09:08 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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the 1 person you really cant trust when he's talking about the cased grains is violet. less work, less contam prone etc etc is just whack! bodhi knows what he's talking about, it isnt fair to say he's talking bad about violet he's simply stating whats wrong with the tek and/or reasoning behind hit!
And there's a good reason why there arent many if any good pics of grows like this by newbs and there's tons of newbs with beautiful pristine brf cake grows!
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,916
Loc: Milky way
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yes cpoo and hpoo and any other grass eating animal poo needs to be aged properly.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,916
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Ok Violet, you're next [Re: bodhisatta]
#21360133 - 03/04/15 09:19 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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it's a lot more work to do the cased grain cups just because you want to keep a culture sterile all the way to fruiting and not "interrupt" the mycelium network.
if interrupting the mycelium network was so detrimental to performance I would think every single farm on the planet would be reconsidering the use of spawn.
Quote:
Violet said: I'm not ashamed of having a 35-50% contam rate with bulk because it is proven to not have been my fault.
Quote:
Violet said: nobody else here would seriously claim that I am a poor enough grower to not be able to spawn to bulk right, especially if they really knew how much I have grown and still do. I have too many successful grows under my belt. Likely more than you, even for all my struggles before I mastered vtek (if I even have mastered it yet, sometimes I think not)
If you need to do cups to keep your media sterile through to fruiting because you get a lackluster success with bulk then maybe that's what you have to do. I'm guessing it was an act of god since it wasn't the cultivators fault. I investigated myself and found no wrongdoing.
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Ok Violet, you're next [Re: Psilicon] 1
#21360201 - 03/04/15 09:32 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
van der griegen said:
Quote:
bodhisatta said: I'm just giving my 2cents. I'm still waiting for someone other than violet to post some nice results. pastywhyte had the best results out of anyone other than violet who has tried
Nah, mine was better than Pasty's. It was in the original V-tek post, but I think Violet got pissed at me and took it down. 

No, I don't think I've seen that picture before. It's a pretty good one.
I do think I had pictures by other growers in one of the tek posts, including one of yours, but changed some out in revisions somewhere along the way. Kinda recall the one I had of yours was fruiting in a converted aquarium or something? I don't remember being pissed at you although I have been irked at you before, however even so that wouldn't make me take down a good picture. In fact, I think I might even add that one. Edit: well actually I shouldn't, the container is almost double over-filled...
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!
PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
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Edited by Violet (03/04/15 09:38 AM)
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Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


Registered: 08/26/12
Posts: 7,057
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
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Re: Ok Violet, you're next [Re: Violet]
#21360233 - 03/04/15 09:41 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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The bigger reason you shouldn't is that it's MS, and you're pretty passionate about your clones.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,916
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Ok Violet, you're next [Re: Violet] 1
#21360235 - 03/04/15 09:41 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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as for testing cultures quickly. make brf cake mix. put about 1/2 pint into a quart or pint wide mouth sterilize let it cool down inoculate wait a week fruit in-vitro
stays sterile the whole time too. but the turn around is way faster and they pin faster and the yields are the same
 fruited in-vitro
 little 3rd flush ape cubes
From start to finish about two weeks til you can harvest.
tell me again how making a vtek cup to test strains is easier way of testing cultures than a simple cake.
mind you these are never broken up or exposed to air either and you can get sterile or more clean spore prints/swabs doing this too.
best part about it is you still don't need a SGFC either just because their cakes doesn't mean you need a special fruiting chamber.
pint wide mouths containers are just as easy to harvest from or use like the pp5 cups. if you put cake mix into your test jars it sterilizes quicker and you skip grain prep which adds a day onto the time it takes to have everything ready to test your cultures.
Edited by Trusted cuItivator (03/04/15 09:46 AM)
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Ok Violet, you're next [Re: bodhisatta] 1
#21360338 - 03/04/15 10:05 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Bod that's essentially like my vtek invitro but with a pf substrate and in glass. Really it's not any easier.
Quote:
bodhisatta said: cow shit is like "the" substrate for cubes.
GRAIN is like "the" substrate for Cubie. We can grow with only grain. Not so only manure. We effectively always grow with grain. Cubensis is a grass lover; our grows pretty much prove that too. Manure is partially digested grass/grain mixture. If you substitute a grow's manure for an equal dry weight of straw, do you think the straw would yield less?
For those of you on about ammonia being bad (well of course if you hydrate your substrate with it it will be, does that make it bad on a bio level? No) and about how urine is "aged out" before use... (For starters, I challenge anyone to prove that cows somehow specifically avoid altogether urinating on the shit paddies that litter their fields) I clearly have never claimed that adding animal piss to substrates would be a good idea. The natural bacterial flora of nitrobacter and nitrosomonas have converted useful materials in all natural elements (which includes urea) into forms that can bustle along the metabolic cycle, just another stage of nature's reallocation of resources. Nature always has a way to convert wastes into forms usable for something else, and comes around full circle. I have consistently agreed that mycelium cannot use the same/similar elements in fertilizer. I have always stated that we count on life's ability to process wastes into re-usable forms to increase the content potential of our substrates, like is done with stable manure for the betterment of fungi such as shaggy mane.
It's not hard to find connections between urea and mushrooms, especially where composting (using the natural bacterial bio conversion that occurs in nature including the pasture), with simple google searches.
Just 10 seconds doing one search and finding a first result... From OSU: http://extension.oregonstate.edu/gardening/mushroom-compost-use-carefully The recipe for mushroom compost varies from company to company, but can include composted wheat or rye straw, peat moss, used horse bedding straw, chicken manure, cottonseed or canola meal, grape crushings from wineries, soybean meal, potash, gypsum, urea, ammonium nitrate and lime. "Each mushroom growing facility has its own recipe," explained John Stout, general manager of PictSweet Mushrooms in Salem. "It's very precise. The compost ingredients are weighed out, then mixed in." At the PictSweet mushroom farm, huge piles of mushroom compost sit for about 30 days and do what compost does - heat up. The straw provides the structure and some food for bacteria, and the urea, cottonseed meal and chicken manure provide most of the nutrients. The bacteria multiply, forcing the temperature inside the pile up to more than 160 degrees F, killing any weed seeds or pathogens that might have been present in the straw or animal wastes. The result is mushroom compost, ready to grow a crop of commercial table mushrooms.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,916
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Ok Violet, you're next [Re: Violet]
#21360366 - 03/04/15 10:10 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Violet said: Bod that's essentially like my vtek invitro but with a pf substrate and in glass. Really it's not any easier.
yes it is that's why I test my cultures like that.
1. it takes less than 8 hours to actually get around to inoculation to test your culture you make the cake mix load sterilize cool down and inoculate. boom less than 8 hours. grain prep you add at least a whole day, and besides grass seed is expensive. ferts if you use them support bad companies with bad practices, and the yields are the same as you get from grain cups anyway but it's easier and less finicky to get those yields since all you have to do is wait for the fruits to pop up harvest your first flush then hydrate the cake for the second flush.
no microwave, no PC(unless you want to PC your cakes), way less energy, less money, less time, less maintenance, less hassle, more results, faster turn around.
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Ok Violet, you're next [Re: bodhisatta] 1
#21360401 - 03/04/15 10:18 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Any ease differences are far more minimal than you'd like to imply. It's the difference between grinding grain and mixing it with wet verm, and simply boiling grain.
Besides. You'll never convince me that you can get 20+ grams from one of those. "Yields the same" is either a bold claim or a bold-faced lie. I get 13-19 per container typically from grass seed, 15-26 from brown rice. And I believe more is possible.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!
PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
• Violet's Teks and Posts •
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,916
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Ok Violet, you're next [Re: Violet]
#21360415 - 03/04/15 10:21 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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I've pulled more off of a modest test cake than all 6 of my v cups put together. sure that's just one example and my first run with the cups but it was enough to make me not look back on culture testing methods.
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Ok Violet, you're next [Re: Psilicon] 1
#21360457 - 03/04/15 10:29 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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I would go into what that REALLY says about you, but we've been there enough times already.
Quote:
van der griegen said: The bigger reason you shouldn't is that it's MS, and you're pretty passionate about your clones.
That I am. Results with multi-spore vary even moreso with this method. Until I found my best cultures by following my culture tech, it does so happen that my largest first-flush yield came from multispore PE6:
  But past that, multi spore is unreliable and not worth expanding, especially when it comes to a method like this. Multispore great grows are a bit of a fluke.
Your cake is especially good for being from spore variety then. Perhaps you can imagine then what a consistent boss culture could do, lining a tote with them and occasionally watering. My grows look little different than monotubs do when the canopies come in.
Some comments were made about cultures and my techniques relative to bulk ones. Yes I have definitely said before that clone isolates I took from bulk grows, which did quite well on bulk grows, were shown to be far less awesome than I thought when used for my cases grain cakes. This is why I think vtek can show a culture's true potential more easily. Fewer cultures may prove to excel in all circumstances when put to a grow condition like these. Using vtek for culture tests puts them to a more grueling comparison. The ones that make it thru the crucible after tests with my teks have proven themselves to be gems worth keeping.
Cultures from bulky grows didn't show to do well with the vtek-style methods, but the cultures I obtain with my culture tech do great with them - and prove to be incredibly badass on bulks as well!
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!
PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
• Violet's Teks and Posts •
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