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Offlinepoint5wonder
Stranger
Registered: 01/31/15
Posts: 84
Last seen: 9 years, 22 days
Re: Why has Africa never developed??? [Re: Turtletotem] * 2
    #21229178 - 02/05/15 03:31 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Turtletotem said:

That damn reich would have fallen apart the second Hitler kicked the bucket. There where many high ranking Germans who wanted a slice of that reich, and don't forget all the conquered nations that didn't look too kindly on the brutal oppressors.
If the Nazi's won the war, a civil war would have followed soon.

And what is this with our tech level lacking? Who are we competing against anyway? This is not a game of civilization, we're not rushing down some tech tree.




we could both sit here and say that Germany may or may not have had a civil war. Fact is we may never know. But what we do know is that Hitler took his country from rags to riches. And his people loved him for it that's an indisputable fact. Muslims countries were also in favour of Germany even some african countries. Don't say civil war would have erupted like its a fact, we both would never know.

Secondly only you are thinking about competition. But if technology was on the level most people beleive it should be now. Things like hunger would be a thing of the past. Free energy would be the norm and space exploration would be also be much more of a trend.

Maybe you like war, hunger and stagnation but I would like to believe that humanity is better then that and should strive towards better things.

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OfflineTurtletotem
Dutch Delight
 User Gallery


Registered: 09/02/13
Posts: 3,763
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
Re: Why has Africa never developed??? [Re: point5wonder]
    #21229271 - 02/05/15 05:15 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

point5wonder said:
Quote:

Turtletotem said:

That damn reich would have fallen apart the second Hitler kicked the bucket. There where many high ranking Germans who wanted a slice of that reich, and don't forget all the conquered nations that didn't look too kindly on the brutal oppressors.
If the Nazi's won the war, a civil war would have followed soon.

And what is this with our tech level lacking? Who are we competing against anyway? This is not a game of civilization, we're not rushing down some tech tree.




we could both sit here and say that Germany may or may not have had a civil war. Fact is we may never know. But what we do know is that Hitler took his country from rags to riches. And his people loved him for it that's an indisputable fact. Muslims countries were also in favour of Germany even some african countries. Don't say civil war would have erupted like its a fact, we both would never know.

Secondly only you are thinking about competition. But if technology was on the level most people beleive it should be now. Things like hunger would be a thing of the past. Free energy would be the norm and space exploration would be also be much more of a trend.

Maybe you like war, hunger and stagnation but I would like to believe that humanity is better then that and should strive towards better things.




Hitler's economy was based on conquest, and once that train stopped riding who knows how far the German people would have fallen?

And I still do not understand how you believe technology is behind somehow.
It's moving forward at an alarming pace.

Sure, I'd have loved to see a lot more space exploration, but it is what it is. The people just don't understand the immense importance of our ability to master that alien environment.

And I do not like war, hunger or stagnation. That is a very insulting and disrespectful thing to say.
Are you that arrogant, that you believe you alone have the answers to human problems that have existed as long as humanity itself?
For shame.

I believe technology alone is not the answer. It can get you a long way to a better world, but on it's own it will achieve no such thing, not as long as people's mindsets are still in the stone age.

Humanity being better then that... striving towards better things... clearly you have not met a lot of people in your life.
There are good people, there are bad people, and most of all there are people who are just being people.
It is what it is.


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Offlinepoint5wonder
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Registered: 01/31/15
Posts: 84
Last seen: 9 years, 22 days
Re: Why has Africa never developed??? [Re: Turtletotem]
    #21229351 - 02/05/15 06:20 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Actually your are wrong again. After World War One Germany was the definition of a shit hole thanks to the war and the reparations they had to pay. Crime was at an all time high and drug abuse was the norm and many people were homeless. They didn't make money using the world economy that was making them pay reparations. No instead they used a currency that would work only for them and it got people working!

Hitler restoring Germany to its honour is why they absolutely adore him there was no conquest in Germany. That came during the war out of Germany.

At what point did I say I have the answers to humanity? never said anything of the sort. For your information I've met a shit ton of people to be honest. I've been to U.K, Germany, Dubai in the UAE, South Africa, Mozambique and Ofcourse here in Kenya.

All those countries are quite different culturally and just like you said there are good people and bad people.

One thing that is similar about all those people all the good people share respect for those around them and have a love for life and all the bad people are just people who have had bad things happen to them so they close up a and view the world from their bad experience.

driving towards something better is what all man is trying to do otherwise why would people invent in the first place?

As for tech i don't know why you don't want to research anything about it but Nikola Tesla already solved the free energy problem 100 years ago. Why the hell are we still using fossil fuels?
Simple because it's profitable. Sorry but we are seriously laggin behind in what tech we should have had. Right now everything is just from the 1960's just with a better coat of paint.

And your right aslong as we still have backward way of thinking the only thing tech is going to help us with is killing better and faster.

More then technical innovation we need a consiousness innovation.

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OfflineSteelPanther

Registered: 05/28/12
Posts: 3,453
Loc: The Energy
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
Re: Why has Africa never developed??? [Re: point5wonder] * 1
    #21229602 - 02/05/15 08:48 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Technology is by no means behind where it should be, its just that technology which is available to the public market is manipulated. If you strategically let out slightly newer stuff every so often you make much more money than if you skip through a lot of stuff right to the best technology.

Also not every human is driving towards something better

Also you do seem to think you are in some way enlightened because you come from Kenya, although your people have in no way proved any thing of the sort. You share a common trait with your people, you think your always right.


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Everything I say on here is not true, I am an insecure person who lies about doing drugs and stuff to make myself feel good. So any illegal things I may have talked about are all fictional.

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: Why has Africa never developed??? [Re: kr0nik0] * 1
    #21229726 - 02/05/15 09:42 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

kr0nik0 said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

kr0nik0 said:
I thought you would have had a thorough response to my post about not having a concise answer as to why African countries haven't been prosperous in modern history Zappa.

I look forward to one. No sarcasm.




I have no answer.  I just know they have failed.  I don't think they have an excuse.  Whatever it is is indigenous.  Westerners colonized the entire world a few centuries ago or so.  Where else is there such abject failure?




India for starters.

The Portuguese fucked a lot of things up across Asia and in Brazil.

I can't generalize Europeans as being the sole cause for the shit state of countries, but they certainly have done their part at times.



India is nowhere near as fucked as sub Saharan Africa.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: Why has Africa never developed??? [Re: Turtletotem]
    #21229739 - 02/05/15 09:47 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Turtletotem said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
:flowstone:Will you kindly enlighten me as to when Africa has ever been prosperous?  I mean since the invention of the wheel and thrown rocks as weapons?

There is an enormous amount of desperation to deflect blame away from the people who are fucking up all by themselves.




Ethiopia, Mali, Great Zimbabwe & other kingdoms where among the most prosperous kingdoms in a time where Europe was mainly inhabited by illiterate barbarians. Read some classical texts on the subject, you'll find that the Egyptian economy was once ruined by a king (Mali? I gotta re-read some stuff) that handed out gold to all the poor when he was on an official visit.

"Why was Africa never developed?"
It was developed. You have been lied to, are lying yourself, or are wilfully ignorant.




They were prosperous when prosperity was measured in terms of how much food you could grow.  Since the Europeans were illiterate barbarians while Africa was prosperous how come Europeans were able to so quickly surpass them in every way?


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: Why has Africa never developed??? [Re: Turtletotem]
    #21229747 - 02/05/15 09:49 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Turtletotem said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Actually Egypt would qualify but I get tired of writing Sub Saharan Africa all the time. Egypt did used to be something and I'm not talking about the stupid fucking pyramids.




Back in the day the Sahara was a whole lot smaller and more fertile, and people travelled more freely through that region.
Many Egyptians where actually of sub-Saharan descent, as where a couple of pharaos.
The first pyramid builders where sub-Saharan, the Numibian(Spelling?) culture constructed (much more modest) pyramid tombs for their kings, and eventually the practice travelled to Egypt.

Things are not what they seem, Zappaisgod! When talking about ancient Egypt and sub-Saharan Africa, you must realise the two intermingled all the time.



Egypt accomplished things that endured.  What accomplishment does sub Saharan Africa have to point to?


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Offlinerickpsfuckyou
listening to Mozzy
Male


Registered: 11/26/05
Posts: 1,860
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Re: Why has Africa never developed??? [Re: zappaisgod] * 2
    #21229864 - 02/05/15 10:19 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

every other culture and race in the world was more advanced than cave dwelling parasite white people that crawled out of their caverns after the last ice age and began a genocidal rampage of cultural theft, and imperial enslavement world wide. They have never invented anything, they have stolen all the technological, scientific, spiritual, and cultural acheivements of every society on earth. the only thing they invented was mass murder and sexual perversion.

the truth hurts however, and whites that benefit from institutionalized racism never have the intellectual honesty to objectively study true history and come to terms with the roles their ancestors and race have played in the development of africa or any 3rd world country, for that matter, and admit the truth. they can't even admit they still heavily benefit to this day. a white person is not even qualified at all to speak on racial matters, because their day to day experience is a whole other world compared to any minority, and whites benefit every single second of every day from this white supremist society. they simply cannot comprehend or imagine a non white experience. it took moorish influence in europe for them to even learn to read write and count.

their whole culture is genocide, rape, theft and sexual perversion. this is all fact not conjecture or opinion. just look at how they laughably try to whitewash ancient egypt, china or india. they still do it to this day, perfect example, look at the last 100 years of stealing black music. white people are truly the real niggers.


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Offlinerickpsfuckyou
listening to Mozzy
Male


Registered: 11/26/05
Posts: 1,860
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
Re: Why has Africa never developed??? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21229871 - 02/05/15 10:20 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Turtletotem said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Actually Egypt would qualify but I get tired of writing Sub Saharan Africa all the time. Egypt did used to be something and I'm not talking about the stupid fucking pyramids.




Back in the day the Sahara was a whole lot smaller and more fertile, and people travelled more freely through that region.
Many Egyptians where actually of sub-Saharan descent, as where a couple of pharaos.
The first pyramid builders where sub-Saharan, the Numibian(Spelling?) culture constructed (much more modest) pyramid tombs for their kings, and eventually the practice travelled to Egypt.

Things are not what they seem, Zappaisgod! When talking about ancient Egypt and sub-Saharan Africa, you must realise the two intermingled all the time.



Egypt accomplished things that endured.  What accomplishment does sub Saharan Africa have to point to?



the oldest precious metals mines on earth, and ancient astronomical obervatories...


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: Why has Africa never developed??? [Re: rickpsfuckyou]
    #21229875 - 02/05/15 10:21 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

rickpsfuckyou said:
every other culture and race in the world was more advanced than cave dwelling parasite white people that crawled out of their caverns after the last ice age and began a genocidal rampage of cultural theft, and imperial enslavement world wide. They have never invented anything, they have stolen all the technological, scientific, spiritual, and cultural acheivements of every society on earth. the only thing they invented was mass murder and sexual perversion.

the truth hurts however, and whites that benefit from institutionalized racism never have the intellectual honesty to objectively study true history and come to terms with the roles their ancestors and race have played in the development of africa or any 3rd world country, for that matter, and admit the truth. they can't even admit they still heavily benefit to this day. a white person is not even qualified at all to speak on racial matters, because their day to day experience is a whole other world compared to any minority, and whites benefit every single second of every day from this white supremist society. they simply cannot comprehend or imagine a non white experience. it took moorish influence in europe for them to even learn to read write and count.

their whole culture is genocide, rape, theft and sexual perversion. this is all fact not conjecture or opinion. just look at how they laughably try to whitewash ancient egypt, china or india. they still do it to this day, perfect example, look at the last 100 years of stealing black music. white people are truly the real niggers.



:lolsy:


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Offlineqman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 1 day, 23 hours
Re: Why has Africa never developed??? [Re: rickpsfuckyou]
    #21229883 - 02/05/15 10:23 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

rickpsfuckyou said:
every other culture and race in the world was more advanced than cave dwelling parasite white people that crawled out of their caverns after the last ice age and began a genocidal rampage of cultural theft, and imperial enslavement world wide. They have never invented anything, they have stolen all the technological, scientific, spiritual, and cultural acheivements of every society on earth. the only thing they invented was mass murder and sexual perversion.

the truth hurts however, and whites that benefit from institutionalized racism never have the intellectual honesty to objectively study true history and come to terms with the roles their ancestors and race have played in the development of africa or any 3rd world country, for that matter, and admit the truth. they can't even admit they still heavily benefit to this day. a white person is not even qualified at all to speak on racial matters, because their day to day experience is a whole other world compared to any minority, and whites benefit every single second of every day from this white supremist society. they simply cannot comprehend or imagine a non white experience. it took moorish influence in europe for them to even learn to read write and count.

their whole culture is genocide, rape, theft and sexual perversion. this is all fact not conjecture or opinion. just look at how they laughably try to whitewash ancient egypt, china or india. they still do it to this day, perfect example, look at the last 100 years of stealing black music. white people are truly the real niggers.




Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.  :goodluckwiththat2:

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Offlinerickpsfuckyou
listening to Mozzy
Male


Registered: 11/26/05
Posts: 1,860
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
Re: Why has Africa never developed??? [Re: qman]
    #21229894 - 02/05/15 10:27 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)





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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: Why has Africa never developed??? [Re: rickpsfuckyou]
    #21229896 - 02/05/15 10:28 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

rickpsfuckyou said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:

Egypt accomplished things that endured.  What accomplishment does sub Saharan Africa have to point to?



the oldest precious metals mines on earth, and ancient astronomical obervatories...



You mean like Stonehenge only gone?  I would hope they would have the oldest mines but am not surprised that it was for froo froo

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze_Age


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Offlinerickpsfuckyou
listening to Mozzy
Male


Registered: 11/26/05
Posts: 1,860
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Re: Why has Africa never developed??? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21229916 - 02/05/15 10:33 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

http://www.viewzone.com/adamscalendar.html

Ancient Human Metropolis Found in Africa

By Dan Eden for viewzone.

They have always been there. People noticed them before. But no one could remember who made them -- or why? Until just recently, no one even knew how many there were. Now they are everywhere -- thousands -- no, hundreds of thousands of them! And the story they tell is the most important story of humanity. But it's one we might not be prepared to hear.

Something amazing has been discovered in an area of South Africa, about 150 miles inland, west of the port of Maputo. It is the remains of a huge metropolis that measures, in conservative estimates, about 1500 square miles. It's part of an even larger community that is about 10,000 square miles and appears to have been constructed -- are you ready -- from 160,000 to 200,000 BCE!

The image [top of page] is a close-up view of just a few hundred meters of the landscape taken from google-earth. The region is somewhat remote and the "circles" have often been encountered by local farmers who assumed they were made by some indigenous people in the past. But, oddly, no one ever bothered to inquire about who could have made them or how old they were.

This changed when researcher and author, Michael Tellinger, teamed up with Johan Heine, a local fireman and pilot who had been looking at these ruins from his years flying over the region. Heine had the unique advantage to see the number and extent of these strange stone foundations and knew that their significance was not being appreciated.

    "When Johan first introduced me to the ancient stone ruins of southern Africa, I had no idea of the incredible discoveries we would make in the year or two that followed. The photographs, artifacts and evidence we have accumulated points unquestionably to a lost and never-before-seen civilization that predates all others -- not by just a few hundred years, or a few thousand years... but many thousands of years. These discoveries are so staggering that they will not be easily digested by the mainstream historical and archaeological fraternity, as we have already experienced. It will require a complete paradigm shift in how we view our human history. " -- Tellinger

Where it was found

The area is significant for one striking thing -- gold. "The thousands of ancient gold mines discovered over the past 500 years, points to a vanished civilization that lived and dug for gold in this part of the world for thousands of years," says Tellinger. "And if this is in fact the cradle of humankind, we may be looking at the activities of the oldest civilization on Earth."

To see the number and scope of these ruins, I suggest that you use google-earth and start with the following coordinates:

Carolina -- 25 55' 53.28" S / 30 16' 13.13" E
Badplaas -- 25 47' 33.45" S / 30 40' 38.76" E
Waterval -- 25 38' 07.82" S / 30 21' 18.79" E
Machadodorp -- 25 39' 22.42" S / 30 17' 03.25" E

Then perform a low flying search inside the area formed by this rectangle. Simply Amazing!

Did gold play some role in the dense population that once lived here? The site is just about 150 miles from an excellent port where maritime trade could have helped to support such a large population. But remember -- we're talking almost 200,000 years ago!

The individual ruins [see below] mostly consist of stone circles. Most have been buried in the sand and are only observable by satellite or aircraft. Some have been exposed when the changing climate has blown the sand away, revealing the walls and foundations.

    "I see myself as a fairly open-minded chap but I will admit that it took me well over a year for the penny to drop, and for me to realise that we are actually dealing with the oldest structures ever built by humans on Earth.

    The main reason for this is that we have been taught that nothing of significance has ever come from southern Africa. That the powerful civilizations all emerged in Sumeria and Egypt and other places. We are told that until the settlement of the BANTU people from the north, which was supposed to have started sometime in the 12th century AD, this part of the world was filled by hunter gatherers and so-called Bushmen, who did not make any major contributions in technology or civilization." -- Tellinger

A Rich and Diverse History

When explorers first encountered these ruins, they assumed that they were cattle corals made by nomadic tribes, like the Bantu people, as they moved south and settled the land from around the 13th century. There was no previous historical record of any older civilization capable of building such a densly populated community. Little effort was made to investigate the site because the scope of the ruins was not fully known.

Over the past 20 years, people like Cyril Hromnik, Richard Wade, Johan Heine and a handful of others have discovered that these stone structures are not what the seem to be. In fact these are now believed to be the remains of ancient temples and astronomical observatories of lost ancient civilizations that stretch back for many thousands of years.

These circular ruins are spread over a huge area. They can only truly be appreciated from the air or through modern sattelite images. Many of them have almost completely eroded or have been covered by the movement of soil from farming and the weather. Some have survived well enough to reveal their great size [see above] with some original walls standing almost 5 feet high and over a meter wide in places.

Looking at the entire metropolis, it becomes obvious that this was a well planned community, developed by a highly evolved civilization. The number of ancient gold mines suggests the reason for the community being in this location. We find roads -- some extending a hundred miles -- that connected the community and terraced agriculture, closely resembling those found in the Inca settlements in Peru.

But one question begs for an answer -- how could this be achieved by humans 200,000 years ago?

An example of what you will see on google-earth.

This is what you will see on google-earth at 25 37'40.90"S / 30 17'57.41E [A]. We are viewing the scene from an altitude of 357 meters.

This is not a "special" location -- just one we picked at random, within the previously described area. It shows artifacts that are everywhere and we encourage you to search the area with this great internet technology.

The circular stone structures are obvious from this view, even though they may not be visible from ground level. Notice that there are many very long roads that connect groups of the circular structures. If you zoom out and follow these "roads" they travel for many miles.

The fact that we can see these structures is mainly because natural erosion has blown away the dirt and debris that has covered them for thousands of years. Once exposed to the wind, the rocks are scoured clean and may appear deceptively new.

If you look closely at what first appears to be empty land [C], you will notice many faint circles, indicating that even more dwellings lurk below the surface. In reality, the entire area is packed full of these structures and connecting roads.

Why has no one notices these before?

How the Site was dated

Once the ruins were examined, the researchers were anxious to place the lost civilization in a historical perspective. The rocks were covered with a patina that looked very old but there were no items sufficient for carbon-14 dating. It was then that a chance discovery revealed the age of the site, and sent a chill down the spine of archaeologists and historians!


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Offlinepoint5wonder
Stranger
Registered: 01/31/15
Posts: 84
Last seen: 9 years, 22 days
Re: Why has Africa never developed??? [Re: SteelPanther]
    #21229927 - 02/05/15 10:36 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

SteelPanther said:
Technology is by no means behind where it should be, its just that technology which is available to the public market is manipulated. If you strategically let out slightly newer stuff every so often you make much more money than if you skip through a lot of stuff right to the best technology.

Also not every human is driving towards something better

Also you do seem to think you are in some way enlightened because you come from Kenya, although your people have in no way proved any thing of the sort. You share a common trait with your people, you think your always right.




You just proved my point with your own comment. The tech is manipulated for no other purpose then profit! Therefore problems which can be solved today won't be simply because of companies that want their profits to soar. Nikola Tesla had plan to produce wireless energy! And only now Russian scientist are paying for the project it itself. Something that could have been done 100 years ago.

Funny you claim that I think I'm always right yet I have the humility to admit points made by others true no matter how distasteful I find them.
I have not seen you, not even once agree with any point anyone has made unless they mirror your own.

You really should stop projecting your insecurities on to others. By the way if we need to talk about enduring here's a few more facts for you.

-spoken language came from Africa
-laws as Ethiopia was the first country to do this
-international trade again Ethiopia and Asia began this hence even today you can find similarities in some Asian languages and african languages
-and of course art and philosophy

You can always check it for yourself

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Offlinepoint5wonder
Stranger
Registered: 01/31/15
Posts: 84
Last seen: 9 years, 22 days
Re: Why has Africa never developed??? [Re: rickpsfuckyou]
    #21229950 - 02/05/15 10:43 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Very interesting article something to read tonight! You'll find that it doesn't help in this thread these guys won't even bother reading just because they hate being proven wrong.

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Offlineqman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
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Re: Why has Africa never developed??? [Re: point5wonder] * 2
    #21229952 - 02/05/15 10:44 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Since Africa is so "great", maybe African-Americans could return back to their homeland!!    :awedance:

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Offlinerickpsfuckyou
listening to Mozzy
Male


Registered: 11/26/05
Posts: 1,860
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Re: Why has Africa never developed??? [Re: qman]
    #21229973 - 02/05/15 10:50 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Since Africa is so "great", maybe African-Americans could return back to their homeland!!    :awedance:



this is by far my favorite racist response. lol. they always act like black people came here willingly, and of their own volition. remember a thing called slavery? where 10 million were kidnapped and 9/10ths died in the middle passage on the way over? whites brought us here to do all the work of building a country as slaves under genocidal conditions then have the audacity to say if you don't like it leave, LOL


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Offlinerickpsfuckyou
listening to Mozzy
Male


Registered: 11/26/05
Posts: 1,860
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Re: Why has Africa never developed??? [Re: point5wonder]
    #21229989 - 02/05/15 10:53 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

point5wonder said:
Very interesting article something to read tonight! You'll find that it doesn't help in this thread these guys won't even bother reading just because they hate being proven wrong.



they are too intellectually dishonest to research, they would rather just "know" they are right, lol.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: Why has Africa never developed??? [Re: rickpsfuckyou]
    #21229995 - 02/05/15 10:54 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

viewzone, LOL.

http://www.viewzone2.com/openletter.html

:flowstone:

Nice research source.


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