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InvisibleChainsaw
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Re-steralizing bacillus contaminated bulk substrate * 1
    #21216932 - 02/02/15 04:28 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

I spawned a manure/coir based bulk substrate with bad grain spawn. The result is sour apple smell and slow colonization. I re-packed the substrate into jars for a sterilization run of 17 psi for 90 min. I plan to hit them with an LC in front of a flow hood.

My thought is that the bacillus bacteria would not have ruined the nutritional support for another round of inoculation if properly sterilized.

Any experience out there with this?

Edited by Chainsaw (02/02/15 06:16 PM)

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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Re-steralizing bacillus contaminated bulk substrate [Re: Chainsaw]
    #21216972 - 02/02/15 04:35 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

I think bacillus makes endospores that can survive pressure cooking.  Garbage in garbage out.  But do it - for science!


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InvisibleChainsaw
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Re: Re-steralizing bacillus contaminated bulk substrate [Re: drake89]
    #21217015 - 02/02/15 04:44 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

drake89 said:
I think bacillus makes endospores that can survive pressure cooking.  Garbage in garbage out.  But do it - for science!




Well, I could do a tyndallization if needed to cripple the endospores, no sweat to just leave one pressure cooker full of jars, heat, wait 24 hrs and repeat twice.


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mycellium has branched into my heart

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OfflineRabbit88
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Re: Re-steralizing bacillus contaminated bulk substrate [Re: Chainsaw]
    #21218394 - 02/02/15 08:59 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

I seen something similar to this in an old IRF post i believe it ended with mixed results ill see if i can find it


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OfflineRabbit88
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Re: Re-steralizing bacillus contaminated bulk substrate [Re: Rabbit88]
    #21218416 - 02/02/15 09:03 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)



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Looking for rare exotics  like the tecorums , pan tropics, or p. Hispanica pm if you got what im looking for

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InvisibleChainsaw
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Re: Re-steralizing bacillus contaminated bulk substrate [Re: Rabbit88]
    #21218603 - 02/02/15 09:39 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Rabbit88 said:
Found it

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/14107694#14107694




Thanks! Interesting. There was absolutely no mold, only bacteria. I PC'd the jars at 17 psi for 90 min. Tomorrow morn they will get hit with LC. I'll report how they fare as jar tek (not to be spawned). I'm definitely not a fan of the smell of cooked contaminated jars.

My most common contamns are bacteria that on grain or coir smells like sour apple and on wood based substrates smells similar to bacon. I'm tired of throwing out bulk substrate that otherwise looks great. If I let the mycelium battle the bacteria, yields are pitiful (if the trich doesn't hit it first).


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OfflineRabbit88
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Re: Re-steralizing bacillus contaminated bulk substrate [Re: Chainsaw]
    #21219025 - 02/02/15 11:27 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

I def  wanna see how this turns out!

Did that nasty smell stink your house up when u pc`d like grains do?

Anyway it would be interesting to try it out with all diffrent types of contaminates it would be nice to find away to be able to save contaminated spawn  i hate wasting anyrhing!


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Looking for rare exotics  like the tecorums , pan tropics, or p. Hispanica pm if you got what im looking for

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InvisibleChainsaw
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Re: Re-steralizing bacillus contaminated bulk substrate [Re: Rabbit88]
    #21221137 - 02/03/15 01:21 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Rabbit88 said:
I def  wanna see how this turns out!

Did that nasty smell stink your house up when u pc`d like grains do?

Anyway it would be interesting to try it out with all different types of contaminates it would be nice to find away to be able to save contaminated spawn  i hate wasting anyrhing!




It smelled bad (not like the sweet sour apple smell), but I had 6 contaminated plates in one PC. We know how old, contamn potato dextrose agar smells less than pleasant.

There is no access here to compost or yard (urban apartment). Mushroom cultivation should be a no waste endeavor. Stamets mentions up-cycling spent shiitake and oyster blocks by amending with nutrients. This makes me wonder about if using contaminated materials can be up-cycled as long as the nutrients are re-added and sterilization is complete. That said, it's likely certain contaminants produce compounds that inhibit fungal growth and/or favor contaminant growth.

Hope this works! I should know in a week.


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mycellium has branched into my heart

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Invisiblelaughingsol
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Re: Re-steralizing bacillus contaminated bulk substrate [Re: Chainsaw]
    #21223414 - 02/03/15 09:17 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Brother Chainsaw, may the steam resonate true within your autoclave.  I have forseen the future and it is a future resplendent with fungi suckling sweetly upon resterilized substrate.


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OfflineprofessorFATTYCAP
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Re: Re-steralizing bacillus contaminated bulk substrate [Re: laughingsol]
    #21242774 - 02/08/15 09:17 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Apartments make for dangerous greenhouses.unexpected landlord visits. Accidental fires that bring P.D and Firdept. Plumbing probs that warrant entrance when ur not home etc. Just a heads up

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InvisibleJuiceh
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Re: Re-steralizing bacillus contaminated bulk substrate [Re: professorFATTYCAP]
    #21243185 - 02/08/15 10:57 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

I once had half a batch of prepped grain jars get massively moldy and nasty because they sat for 3 days before I got around to pcing that half of them. I shook them up and PCd them for 2 hours at 15 psi. I didn't notice any off smell while sterilizing. Grains turned out fine and went on to be used as normal with no issues.


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RogerRabbit said:You need a bigger pressure cooker for this hobby. RR

Edited by Juiceh (02/08/15 10:58 AM)

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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Re-steralizing bacillus contaminated bulk substrate [Re: Juiceh]
    #21244181 - 02/08/15 02:34 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Mold spores die at 140F


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InvisibleChainsaw
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Re: Re-steralizing bacillus contaminated bulk substrate [Re: Juiceh]
    #21249276 - 02/09/15 04:09 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Juiceh said:
I once had half a batch of prepped grain jars get massively moldy and nasty because they sat for 3 days before I got around to pcing that half of them. I shook them up and PCd them for 2 hours at 15 psi. I didn't notice any off smell while sterilizing. Grains turned out fine and went on to be used as normal with no issues.




:thumbup:


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OfflineKizzle
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Re: Re-steralizing bacillus contaminated bulk substrate [Re: Chainsaw]
    #21264346 - 02/12/15 03:22 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

My thought is that the bacillus bacteria would not have ruined the nutritional support for another round of inoculation if properly sterilized.



If it was Bacillus you'd probably have a hell of a time sterilizing it. The number of endospores directly affect the sterilization time needed. Unless the cause of the bacteria was incomplete sterilization though there's a good chance the bacteria was something else. Lots of bacteria smell like that.


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InvisibleChainsaw
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Re: Re-steralizing bacillus contaminated bulk substrate [Re: Kizzle]
    #21267883 - 02/13/15 07:52 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Kizzle said:
Quote:

My thought is that the bacillus bacteria would not have ruined the nutritional support for another round of inoculation if properly sterilized.



If it was Bacillus you'd probably have a hell of a time sterilizing it. The number of endospores directly affect the sterilization time needed. Unless the cause of the bacteria was incomplete sterilization though there's a good chance the bacteria was something else. Lots of bacteria smell like that.




I'm not certain of the bacteria, just that it was a heat resistant bacteria that has a specific sour apple smell. My hope was that 90 minutes at 17 psi in an autoclave would be enough to kill endospores.


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InvisibleChainsaw
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Re: Re-steralizing bacillus contaminated bulk substrate [Re: Chainsaw] * 1
    #21267893 - 02/13/15 07:55 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Well, eleven days after inoculation, there are tiny signs of mycelial growth from the LC on about half the jars.


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InvisibleChainsaw
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Re: Re-steralizing bacillus contaminated bulk substrate [Re: Chainsaw]
    #21323478 - 02/24/15 04:13 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Nearly every jar has slow, steady mycelium growth at this point. Some seem to be picking up speed, but everything is molasses-in-March slow compared to a regular lc and pasteurized substrate.

At this point I expect most of the jars to fully colonize, but have diminished yields.


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Invisible36fuckin5
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Re: Re-steralizing bacillus contaminated bulk substrate [Re: Chainsaw]
    #21331042 - 02/25/15 11:23 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Don't PC bulk subs, especially manure. You're destined to fail. Pasteurize next time.


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Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.

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InvisibleChainsaw
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Re: Re-steralizing bacillus contaminated bulk substrate [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #21332866 - 02/26/15 12:34 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
Don't PC bulk subs, especially manure. You're destined to fail. Pasteurize next time.




Yeah, I know this. Substrate was originally pasteurized, but became contaminated (it's possible the temperatures exceeded 180 for a portion of the run).

Once contaminated, I opted to sterilize contaminated substrate and inoculate in front of the hood with lc as an experiment. It's working, just not efficiently.


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