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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Is it surprising...?
    #2121866 - 11/19/03 05:09 AM (13 years, 18 days ago)

How often those making claims of superior knowledge and spiritual growth fail time and again to demonstrate even an inkling thereof?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineAnnomM
※※※※※※
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6,364
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 17 days, 16 hours
Re: Is it surprising...? [Re: Swami]
    #2121871 - 11/19/03 05:12 AM (13 years, 18 days ago)

No


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Invisiblekaiowas
mndfrayze'speppet urme
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,498
Loc: oz
Re: Is it surprising...? [Re: Swami]
    #2121887 - 11/19/03 05:28 AM (13 years, 18 days ago)

:lol:  no it isn't.  reason why is that the realization is the easy part, integrating it with everyday life style is the hard part. IMHO 


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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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Anonymous

Re: Is it surprising...? [Re: Swami]
    #2122221 - 11/19/03 11:15 AM (13 years, 18 days ago)



:smirk: 


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OfflineNirvhead
-State of Art-

Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 313
Loc: WA State, USA
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
Re: Is it surprising...? [Re: Swami]
    #2122246 - 11/19/03 11:24 AM (13 years, 18 days ago)

I tend to agree, but if said persons are truly superior in knowledge and spiritual growth - as in above and beyond the inferior and perhaps their comprehension as well - then how are we to measure whether they are being hypocritical or if we simply do not understand?


--------------------
Like a fiend in a cloud
With howling woe,
After night I do croud
And with night will go;
I turn my back to the east,
From whence comforts have increas'd;
For light doth seize my brain
With frantic pain.


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 23 days, 10 hours
Re: Is it surprising...? [Re: Nirvhead]
    #2122374 - 11/19/03 12:12 PM (13 years, 18 days ago)

> How often those making claims of superior knowledge and spiritual growth fail time and again to demonstrate even an inkling thereof?

Anybody that makes a claim of superior knowledge or spiritual growth is blowing smoke. Just because you believe a lie doesn't make it true.

The people that have grown spiritually have no need to prove anything to others. True wisdom speaks no words.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Is it surprising...? [Re: Seuss]
    #2122379 - 11/19/03 12:15 PM (13 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
Just because you believe a lie doesn't make it true.




:thumbup:


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Offlinejiva
dream serpent

Registered: 11/06/03
Posts: 141
Loc: everywhere all the time
Last seen: 11 years, 30 days
Re: Is it surprising...? [Re: Evolving]
    #2123817 - 11/19/03 10:25 PM (13 years, 18 days ago)

It is easier to find out whether these things are true, not by demonstration, but through doing it yourself.


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i am another you


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InvisibleDoctorJ
Stranger
 Arcade Champion: Frogger

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,451
Loc: space
Re: Is it surprising...? [Re: jiva]
    #2123864 - 11/19/03 10:53 PM (13 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

How often those making claims of superior knowledge and spiritual growth fail time and again to demonstrate even an inkling thereof?




yeah, fuck those people.  I have more spiritual knowledge than all those assholes put together!
:lol:


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Is it surprising...? [Re: jiva]
    #2124097 - 11/20/03 12:50 AM (13 years, 18 days ago)

jiva: It is easier to find out whether these things are true, not by demonstration, but through doing it yourself.

And the difference is...?

"doing it yourself" IS demonstration.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineZenGecko
enthusiast
Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 285
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: Is it surprising...? [Re: Sclorch]
    #2124301 - 11/20/03 03:43 AM (13 years, 17 days ago)

Believing a lie, is exactly what makes it true.

In my opinion kaiowas, is the most correct. But i think Morpheus said it best. "there is a difference between knowing the path, and walking the path" I might add that it is desire, and ego (the source of desire) that hinder us most. No matter what spiritual experiences you've had, no matter how deep your enlightenment if you havent experienced complete ego loss, and persisted in that state, then your bound to fuck up from time to time. Some people have a stronger character then others, Some people want it more, some people cant help but be good, and no one can be who they aren't supposed to be. We cant help but be weak, when we are weak, and when we are strong, we can't help but be strong. Take comfort in the fact that your doing exactly what you must do....If you can.
Sincerely,
That which is, and has no choice but to be


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Is it surprising...? [Re: ZenGecko]
    #2124749 - 11/20/03 11:45 AM (13 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

ZenGecko said:
Believing a lie, is exactly what makes it true.



That statement is nonsensical.

Quote:

I might add that it is desire, and ego (the source of desire) that hinder us most. No matter what spiritual experiences you've had, no matter how deep your enlightenment if you havent experienced complete ego loss, and persisted in that state, then your bound to fuck up from time to time.



Isn't there a problem then with the desire to experience 'ego loss'?


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflineZenGecko
enthusiast
Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 285
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: Is it surprising...? [Re: Evolving]
    #2126649 - 11/21/03 03:35 AM (13 years, 16 days ago)

ok first, it is not nonsensical, if i believe something to be true, even a lie, then for me it is true, in my reality it is true, even if in yours its a lie. The real question is if absolute truth can exist. something that is true no matter if no one believes it, though even if that is the case what good is it, if no one believes it. For all practical purposes it isn't true, in fact for all practical purposes it wouldn't even exist. Except maybe if it resides with god, and god is needed for all this to continue to be, or if all this is god.

Second, yes there is an intrinsic paradox associated with desiring to obtain ego loss, or to loose all your desires, but unfortunately we all have to start somewhere, and realizing you need to start at all is important. it is possible, that is the very thing that holds us back and probably prevents anyone from being fully enlightened till they are dead or something. But you can atleast get damned close. ultimately you have to trancend desire, to let go of wanting to let go, and that is a hard thing to conceptualize, and like i said it might not even be fully possible in this life. There are degrees of enlightenment, hence the ox herding pictures. Also if i'm not mistaken i think even buddha said that he was not fully awakened and couldn't be in this form, or something to that effect. Basically you have to "just do it" and it may not be possible to fully "just do it" here.
Sincerely,
That which is, and has no choice but to be


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Is it surprising...? [Re: ZenGecko]
    #2126941 - 11/21/03 10:59 AM (13 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

ZenGecko said:
ok first, it is not nonsensical, if i believe something to be true, even a lie, then for me it is true, in my reality it is true, even if in yours its a lie.



You are not describing truth but delusion.

Quote:

The real question is if absolute truth can exist.



Are you familiar with Swami's rock on the back of the head test?

Quote:

something that is true no matter if no one believes it, though even if that is the case what good is it, if no one believes it.



'Good' is a value judgement, the universe doesn't care if you think it is good or not. Truth may be good, bad or value neutral from your perspective. If your belief in something changes, what has changed is your belief, not the nature (or the existence) of the object of your belief.

Quote:

For all practical purposes it isn't true, in fact for all practical purposes it wouldn't even exist.



For all practical purposes it is useless then, not false. The utility of belief in something is not a determinant of whether or not it is true.

Quote:

Except maybe if it resides with god, and god is needed for all this to continue to be, or if all this is god.



What is god?

Quote:

Second, yes there is an intrinsic paradox associated with desiring to obtain ego loss, or to loose all your desires, but unfortunately we all have to start somewhere, and realizing you need to start at all is important.



When we say something is important we are saying that it has value to us. Values are subjective, coming from one's ego. If you lose your ego, ego loss would not be important. Maybe you should start by deciding that nothing is important, no wait, such decisions derive from the ego as well...

Quote:

it is possible, that is the very thing that holds us back and probably prevents anyone from being fully enlightened till they are dead or something.



Cessation of existence = full enlightenment. Sounds like a crock to me.

Quote:

There are degrees of enlightenment, hence the ox herding pictures.



You must be very enlightened to know these things. Are you dying?


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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