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Bjorn_Stormcrow
The Farfarer.



Registered: 09/27/12
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BDSM VS Abuse
#21208981 - 01/31/15 09:35 PM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Because the topic has come up a couple times in the past few weeks, and many MANY times in the past. often accompanied by a quite disturbing amount of ignorance. I figured I would share this link here which does a really good job of explaining the difference.
BDSM VS Abuse
Play safe and have fun everyone
-------------------- Live Mythically
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Acidic_Sloth
Acidic poly-Sided Di-slothamide


Registered: 05/29/02
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Loc: ainrofilac
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i always play safe.
-------------------- -- Accept my heart warming gift of TREE SCRATCHIES!!! I absolve thee!! --
JaP: 30,000 lines of gay, cock, and fag can't be wrong Ped: only in #shroomery is "smuggle opium in her ass" followed by "i don't want shitty opium" which is followed by " *** Joins: PENISSQUAD" -- JaP: What would this place be without random sluts? JaP: Nothing, I tell you.
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Magenta
I care!!


Registered: 06/14/09
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Loc: The land of plenty
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Do people really think that BDSM is abuse? I've never seen observed that here before?
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Bjorn_Stormcrow
The Farfarer.



Registered: 09/27/12
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Re: BDSM VS Abuse [Re: Magenta] 2
#21209211 - 01/31/15 10:46 PM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Magenta said: Do people really think that BDSM is abuse? I've never seen observed that here before?
Yes there are people who do think BDSM is abuse, but those people aren't that bad, just ignorant, what is far worse and far more dangerous are the people who don't understand what the difference between the two are. because they are the ones likely to commit abuse through BDSM and either not realize what they are doing, or even worse intentionally hide their abusive behavior behind a mask of BDSM.
Also there are many victims who fall into this same trap, being unable to recognize the abusive behavior for what it is because they have been led to believe that what they are experiencing is "normal"
Do I think that anyone here is quite that bad... well I can think of one or two i've seen who are. most everyone else though no. however there have been enough tradgic cases in the past that spreading information like this could quite literally save lives. (even if its just in helping people recognize the difference)
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night_shift
Stranger

Registered: 01/02/15
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Post deleted by night_shift
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Bjorn_Stormcrow
The Farfarer.



Registered: 09/27/12
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Last seen: 4 months, 17 days
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Quote:
night_shift said: I'd also throw in the notion that the two can coexist. Otherwise BDSM becomes associated with a safe zone where abuse doesn't happen, which in turn is quite convenient for the abusers and quite unfortunate for the victims, isn't it. Other than this, thumbs up.
Thats just the point, the second that consent gets violated and those boundaries get crossed, then it has passed from the realms of safe sane and consensual BDSM and into the realms of abuse. the danger is that many people don't see or recognize when that line does get crossed and that is how people end up getting seriously hurt and even killed.
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night_shift
Stranger

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Post deleted by night_shift
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pslyke
fantasmagoric



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BDSM=Abuse often following messy breakup. Not saying straight up abuse doesn't happen, but for those that engage in BDSM, they should be prepared to be accused of abuse if a relationship goes south. Never forget that if you're the one dominating you are the one at legal risk. As such, if your kinky mind can tolerate it, perhaps switch play on occasion makes sense. This could re-establish the power balance and reduce the potential for abuse claims should a relationship end poorly. Not trying to be a kill joy but things happen and people need to think ahead towards the legal ramifications.
-------------------- "What appears impenetrable to us does exist, manifesting itself in the deepest wisdom and the most radiant beauty" Einstein "The conservatives of 70 years ago would be outraged at what has come to pass. It embodies everything they took up arms for to defeat"Asante
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,726
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Re: BDSM VS Abuse [Re: pslyke] 1
#21209988 - 02/01/15 07:47 AM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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I haven't been accused of abuse after any breakup and bdsm has been an element in all my sexual relationships. It really depends on the people involved and how you deal with ending a relationship.
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Bjorn_Stormcrow
The Farfarer.



Registered: 09/27/12
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Quote:
night_shift said: I guess I just don't see BDSM and abuse as mutually exclusive. So one could have both at the same time, there is no line to be drawn. I suspect this is not a popular opinion though.
I really prefer your "play safe and have fun everyone" saying than "BDSM is not abuse".
I think we are both trying to say essentially the same thing but in different ways.
I'm not trying to say that there is absolutely no abuse in the BDSM community, quite the opposite. I'm trying to say that it is very possible for there to be abuse present in a relationship that involves BDSM, but that the two are not the same thing, and that a line most deffinetly does exist where one behavior passes over into the other.
-------------------- Live Mythically
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Magenta
I care!!


Registered: 06/14/09
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I've participated in BDSM forums in the past, safety and respect of the other person/people seems to be a prevalent attitude. I think people whom would fall into the abuse/abused category are those that fail to educate them selves and allow their bdsm to overflow into areas that it shouldn't. In other words, there's no boundaries put in place which needs to be done.
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bloodsheen
ChemChaplin



Registered: 09/24/08
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Quote:
Ulfrick said:
Quote:
night_shift said: I guess I just don't see BDSM and abuse as mutually exclusive. So one could have both at the same time, there is no line to be drawn. I suspect this is not a popular opinion though.
I really prefer your "play safe and have fun everyone" saying than "BDSM is not abuse".
I think we are both trying to say essentially the same thing but in different ways.
I'm not trying to say that there is absolutely no abuse in the BDSM community, quite the opposite. I'm trying to say that it is very possible for there to be abuse present in a relationship that involves BDSM, but that the two are not the same thing, and that a line most deffinetly does exist where one behavior passes over into the other.
Yea, the issue just being that from an outsider's perspective (someone that does not engage in BDSM) it is inherently abuse, and somebody who is deeply into BDSM may have a much further line than many people would be comfortable with. So to say there is this obvious big line in the sand where if you never ever cross it there will never be abuse is kinda wishful thinking IMO
I was under the impression that loss of control and, to a lesser extent, loss of consent was part of the appeal? If you have true trust of your partner wouldn't doing something like not assigning a safe word be considered the most loving thing you could do?
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A cautious young fellow named Lodge / Had seat belts installed in his Dodge. / When his date was strapped in / He committed a sin / Without even leaving the garage. That's clever, isn't it?-A boy and his dog
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Bjorn_Stormcrow
The Farfarer.



Registered: 09/27/12
Posts: 2,572
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Quote:
bloodsheen said:
Quote:
Ulfrick said:
Quote:
night_shift said: I guess I just don't see BDSM and abuse as mutually exclusive. So one could have both at the same time, there is no line to be drawn. I suspect this is not a popular opinion though.
I really prefer your "play safe and have fun everyone" saying than "BDSM is not abuse".
I think we are both trying to say essentially the same thing but in different ways.
I'm not trying to say that there is absolutely no abuse in the BDSM community, quite the opposite. I'm trying to say that it is very possible for there to be abuse present in a relationship that involves BDSM, but that the two are not the same thing, and that a line most deffinetly does exist where one behavior passes over into the other.
Yea, the issue just being that from an outsider's perspective (someone that does not engage in BDSM) it is inherently abuse, and somebody who is deeply into BDSM may have a much further line than many people would be comfortable with. So to say there is this obvious big line in the sand where if you never ever cross it there will never be abuse is kinda wishful thinking IMO
I was under the impression that loss of control and, to a lesser extent, loss of consent was part of the appeal? If you have true trust of your partner wouldn't doing something like not assigning a safe word be considered the most loving thing you could do?
and that is precisely the kind of thinking that can lead to abuse. loss of control yes, loss of consent NEVER. even in rape play it is a situation of "consentual non-consent". yes it may appear as though consent is being taken away, but in healthy safe and responsible play a scene like that would have been discussed at length before hand and boundaries put in place.
For example "I'm okay with everything up to but not including anything that breaks the skin. I'm also not okay with blindfolds" might be a fairly standard, "consentual non-consent" agreement, such perameters give the dom a lot of freedom and lee-way in what they do, but there are still boundaries and limitations according to what the bottom is comfortable with. (and no matter what anyone might claim there is NO SUCH THING as a "no-limits bottom" Every single one of them suddenly gets squeemish and change their minds when you start talking about chain-saw amputation fetishes)
as far as the safeword goes. no, it is not a sign of "trust and love" not to have one, in fact it is the exact opposite. if you truly love your partner wouldn't you want to make sure that they are safe at all times? the greatest sign of trust between two partners is to have a safeword that never needs to be used. because that means both partners are playing within limits that they are comfortable with and respecting each others needs and boundaries.
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Beanhead
IS IRONIC PARADOX


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Re: BDSM VS Abuse [Re: pslyke]
#21210789 - 02/01/15 12:24 PM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
pslyke said: BDSM=Abuse often following messy breakup. Not saying straight up abuse doesn't happen, but for those that engage in BDSM, they should be prepared to be accused of abuse if a relationship goes south. Never forget that if you're the one dominating you are the one at legal risk. As such, if your kinky mind can tolerate it, perhaps switch play on occasion makes sense. This could re-establish the power balance and reduce the potential for abuse claims should a relationship end poorly. Not trying to be a kill joy but things happen and people need to think ahead towards the legal ramifications.
Hmmmm, thanks
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bloodsheen
ChemChaplin



Registered: 09/24/08
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Re: BDSM VS Abuse [Re: Beanhead]
#21213868 - 02/01/15 10:09 PM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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As a masochist some BDSM appeals to me but when my partner gives me pain it is obviously enjoyable to me. OUCH is my safe word. It takes a decent amount to reach OUCH. Even when you play fight with a dog often the dog can read the body language of having hurt you for real. When the point is to push past that... the idea of an objective line is impossible IMO. Just like w/ all relationship issues communication is key but with this... blurriness seems par for the course
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A cautious young fellow named Lodge / Had seat belts installed in his Dodge. / When his date was strapped in / He committed a sin / Without even leaving the garage. That's clever, isn't it?-A boy and his dog
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bloodsheen
ChemChaplin



Registered: 09/24/08
Posts: 7,659
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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Btw I feel I should admit it does disturb me a little that I enjoy intimate pain so my opinion may not be totally objective
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A cautious young fellow named Lodge / Had seat belts installed in his Dodge. / When his date was strapped in / He committed a sin / Without even leaving the garage. That's clever, isn't it?-A boy and his dog
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Anonymous #1
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If you have a partner who is into bdsm, but your not, be prepared because you will have to work what you want around what they want, and it will be an interesting mix.
I am not a bdsm fan myself, but when you end up with a significant other who is, they can turn you on to some trips you weren't ready for.
Just my 2¢.
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Beanhead
IS IRONIC PARADOX


Registered: 10/11/08
Posts: 17,257
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Quote:
Anonymous said: If you have a partner who is into bdsm, but your not, be prepared because you will have to work what you want around what they want, and it will be an interesting mix.
I am not a bdsm fan myself, but when you end up with a significant other who is, they can turn you on to some trips you weren't ready for.
Just my 2¢.
It's moreso that i'm a constant tease in hopes that the other notices some punishment needs to be done... 
Needs more detail for being anon^^Quote:
bloodsheen said: Btw I feel I should admit it does disturb me a little that I enjoy intimate pain so my opinion may not be totally objective
Bit of humiliation isn't all that bad either.
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Bjorn_Stormcrow
The Farfarer.



Registered: 09/27/12
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Last seen: 4 months, 17 days
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Quote:
Anonymous said: If you have a partner who is into bdsm, but your not, be prepared because you will have to work what you want around what they want, and it will be an interesting mix.
I am not a bdsm fan myself, but when you end up with a significant other who is, they can turn you on to some trips you weren't ready for.
Just my 2¢.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by that. in my experience most people into bdsm are pretty respectful about it, we get that our kinks aren't things that everyone else is gonna be into.
of course the topic will come up, an we may see if our partners are willing to experiment with it. but if not it shouldn't be the end of the world. at least it shouldn't be, if they continue to push it. or even worse try and go ahead with some of their kinks WITHOUT the permission or knowledge of their partner then that just makes them an asshole. that would be on par with a guy who likes anal suddenly shoving his dick up his GF's ass when he knows damn well she doesn't like it
-------------------- Live Mythically
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Dawks
Jolly African Potato


Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 4,935
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Quote:
Ulfrick said: Because the topic has come up a couple times in the past few weeks, and many MANY times in the past. often accompanied by a quite disturbing amount of ignorance. I figured I would share this link here which does a really good job of explaining the difference.
BDSM VS Abuse
Play safe and have fun everyone 
Does a really good job? It's looks like a child trying to explain the difference between the ocean and the sky to an adult. I almost feel like it's satire.
Honestly if a person doesn't known the difference between BDSM and abuse it's not because they haven't seen this ridiculous infographic. It's because they are suffering from some kind of mental retardation.
Edit: it kind of reminds me of stuff like this
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date ; unzip ; strip ; touch ; grep ; finger ; mount ; fsck ; more ; yes ; umount ; sleep
Edited by Dawks (02/02/15 07:44 AM)
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