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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 34,046
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Re: The term [Re: zappaisgod] * 1
    #21202375 - 01/30/15 01:14 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I don't know what their claims are.  I skipped three pages





You should feel grateful lol


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: The term [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #21202381 - 01/30/15 01:16 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

I figured it was for the best.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 34,046
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Re: The term [Re: Webster10]
    #21202390 - 01/30/15 01:17 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Webster10 said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
The reason has everything to do with it...



Why? I personally don't give a shit what kind of conditions you live in. If you break the law you deserve to be locked up. Blacks, on average commit more crimes than whites. I'm sticking to my original position of who knows what the cause is. You certainly don't.




I certainly know that poor people are much much much more likely to be criminals than rich people, no matter the race.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 34,046
Loc: 'Merica Flag
Last seen: 5 hours, 48 minutes
Re: The term [Re: Shins]
    #21202417 - 01/30/15 01:21 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

SeaShrooms said:
I think what we have learned from this thread, is that white privilege is like religion. It's a mythos that gives one group of people strength, even though it's harmful to others and has no discernable basis in reality.



What I learned is that one side has proven incapable of providing evidence of a genetic correlation between race and violence, while the other side keeps asking for such.

I might believe it if the people making the claim would back it up.  :shrug:





You're saying that a lion is more prone to violence  than a gazelle because the lion was born into poverty?

you guys are saying that ginetics play no role in violent traits which is bullshit.  A lions biology is set up to be carnivorous,  chemical reactions In their bodies compelle them towards violence.  Poverty has nothing tod do with why a lion is violent or not.  Ever seen a por, violent gazelle?




:lolsy:

First of all, your analogy is so clumsy I think it just fell down the stairs.

Second, nobody is arguing that humans are predisposed to violence. We're arguing that lions with darker fur aren't anymore predisposed to violence than lions with lighter fur, given that they're both the same species of lion.


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InvisibleShins
Fun guy
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Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
Re: The term [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #21202457 - 01/30/15 01:29 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

Shins said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

SeaShrooms said:
I think what we have learned from this thread, is that white privilege is like religion. It's a mythos that gives one group of people strength, even though it's harmful to others and has no discernable basis in reality.



What I learned is that one side has proven incapable of providing evidence of a genetic correlation between race and violence, while the other side keeps asking for such.

I might believe it if the people making the claim would back it up.  :shrug:





You're saying that a lion is more prone to violence  than a gazelle because the lion was born into poverty?

you guys are saying that ginetics play no role in violent traits which is bullshit.  A lions biology is set up to be carnivorous,  chemical reactions In their bodies compelle them towards violence.  Poverty has nothing tod do with why a lion is violent or not.  Ever seen a por, violent gazelle?




:lolsy:

First of all, your analogy is so clumsy I think it just fell down the stairs.

Second, nobody is arguing that humans are predisposed to violence. We're arguing that lions with darker fur aren't anymore predisposed to violence than lions with lighter fur, given that they're both the same species of lion.





Ill ask you straight up. Do you accept that genetics in general can play a role in determining violent traits?

or

Do you accept that a lion is more violent than a gazelle because of its genetic makeup?

I just want you to admit that 1. Genes can determine violent traits and 2. that honest scientific inquiry would consider the possibility of more violent genes, even among closely related genotypes.

I'm not asking you to make any conclusions,  just to admit ir as a possibility.

if you deny it as a biological possibility than I know for sure you're are just blowing smoke out your ass.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 34,046
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Re: The term [Re: Shins] * 1
    #21202484 - 01/30/15 01:34 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

There is zero evidence that biological traits that cause violence differ amongst races. There is barely any evidence that biological traits cause violence in the first place.


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InvisibleShins
Fun guy
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Re: The term [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #21202506 - 01/30/15 01:38 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

So carnovors and herbivores have different stomachs and metoabolisms but itvhas nothing to do with ginetics. 

There is no point talking to you because you are not living in reality.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 34,046
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Re: The term [Re: Shins] * 1
    #21202537 - 01/30/15 01:42 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
So carnovors and herbivores have different stomachs and metoabolisms but itvhas nothing to do with ginetics. 

There is no point talking to you because you are not living in reality.




Carnivores* and herbivores aren't different races of the same species.


:braindamage:


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InvisibleBoldAsLove
Pokemon Master


Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 2,549
Loc: Kanto Region
Re: The term [Re: Shins] * 1
    #21202557 - 01/30/15 01:45 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Shins, how is the point you are trying to make related to this debate at all? Lions and gazelles are two different species, not different races. Also, violence and crime is not the same as an animal hunting. And finally, why would something that's true in one species necessarily carry over to another.

Yes, lions and gazelles behave differently partly due to genetics. Thats obvious, but I don't see why it is pertinent.


--------------------
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OfflineWebster10
Up like Trump
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Re: The term [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #21203131 - 01/30/15 03:52 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

Webster10 said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
The reason has everything to do with it...



Why? I personally don't give a shit what kind of conditions you live in. If you break the law you deserve to be locked up. Blacks, on average commit more crimes than whites. I'm sticking to my original position of who knows what the cause is. You certainly don't.




I certainly know that poor people are much much much more likely to be criminals than rich people, no matter the race.



You don't know if that's the only contributing factor.


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:leaf: :usa:

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 34,046
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Re: The term [Re: Webster10]
    #21203164 - 01/30/15 04:01 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Webster10 said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

Webster10 said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
The reason has everything to do with it...



Why? I personally don't give a shit what kind of conditions you live in. If you break the law you deserve to be locked up. Blacks, on average commit more crimes than whites. I'm sticking to my original position of who knows what the cause is. You certainly don't.




I certainly know that poor people are much much much more likely to be criminals than rich people, no matter the race.



You don't know if that's the only contributing factor.




I never said it was, as a matter of fact I listed other factors.


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InvisibleShins
Fun guy
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Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
Re: The term [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #21203424 - 01/30/15 05:09 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

Shins said:
So carnovors and herbivores have different stomachs and metoabolisms but itvhas nothing to do with ginetics. 

There is no point talking to you because you are not living in reality.




Carnivores* and herbivores aren't different races of the same species.


:braindamage:




The question I asked was about genetics in general,  not race. Pay attention.

That said, there is still variances in genetics amound the same species or race.  It is possible for closely related genotypes to have different genetic traits.  For example;  golden retrievers are generally less prone to bite than a rottweiler or chiwawa and they are all dogs.


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InvisibleShins
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Re: The term [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21203458 - 01/30/15 05:17 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

BoldAsLove said:
Shins, how is the point you are trying to make related to this debate at all? Lions and gazelles are two different species, not different races. Also, violence and crime is not the same as an animal hunting. And finally, why would something that's true in one species necessarily carry over to another.

Yes, lions and gazelles behave differently partly due to genetics. Thats obvious, but I don't see why it is pertinent.




I'm trying to generally deduce that genetics can express more or less violent traits in living beings.

with that established,  we can then ask; "do different human races have any amount of varience in genetics?"

if the answer is yes (which it obviously is) we can then ask " could ANY of those different genes POSSIBLY express as more more or less violent traits to any degree."

I see it as a possibility speaking from a biologic/scientifuc poibt of view.

I  am not concluding that it is cerrainly the case, just trying to show that a real scientist would keep an open mind to it as a possibility.


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OfflineWebster10
Up like Trump
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Re: The term [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #21203505 - 01/30/15 05:25 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

Webster10 said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

Webster10 said:
Why? I personally don't give a shit what kind of conditions you live in. If you break the law you deserve to be locked up. Blacks, on average commit more crimes than whites. I'm sticking to my original position of who knows what the cause is. You certainly don't.




I certainly know that poor people are much much much more likely to be criminals than rich people, no matter the race.



You don't know if that's the only contributing factor.




I never said it was, as a matter of fact I listed other factors.



:facepalm:

Quote:

It has nothing to do with genetics and everything to do with environment.




You seemed sure the environment was the only factor a few pages ago.


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InvisibleBoldAsLove
Pokemon Master


Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 2,549
Loc: Kanto Region
Re: The term [Re: Shins] * 2
    #21204406 - 01/30/15 08:41 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Quote:

BoldAsLove said:
Shins, how is the point you are trying to make related to this debate at all? Lions and gazelles are two different species, not different races. Also, violence and crime is not the same as an animal hunting. And finally, why would something that's true in one species necessarily carry over to another.

Yes, lions and gazelles behave differently partly due to genetics. Thats obvious, but I don't see why it is pertinent.




I'm trying to generally deduce that genetics can express more or less violent traits in living beings.






You entirely failed to show that. Violent crime is not the same as hunting. One is a conscious choice, the other is an instinct.

Quote:



with that established,  we can then ask; "do different human races have any amount of varience in genetics?"

if the answer is yes (which it obviously is) we can then ask " could ANY of those different genes POSSIBLY express as more more or less violent traits to any degree."






This is a massive, massive leap. I challenge you to present some actual evidence to support what you seem to be implying. 

Quote:



I see it as a possibility speaking from a biologic/scientifuc poibt of view.






Anything is a possibility. I might learn how to fly tomorrow. I might wake up with green skin. Honestly, what do you think the probability is that what you are suggesting is true?

Quote:



I  am not concluding that it is cerrainly the case, just trying to show that a real scientist would keep an open mind to it as a possibility.




I am keeping an open mind to it, I just think it is extremely unlikely. That is why I would like you to present some evidence to support this as a possibility.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.

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OfflineSeaShrooms
The dude
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Posts: 1,989
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Re: The term [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21204420 - 01/30/15 08:47 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

So couple things, I never said genetics has to do with blacks being violent, I said it's rap music. I also said, who gives a fuck why they do it, they just need to stop. Secondly, we asserted scientifically that genetics has to do with violent behaviour, to recap.



http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-29760212


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OfflineSeaShrooms
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Re: The term [Re: SeaShrooms]
    #21204436 - 01/30/15 08:51 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Also I just wanna throw this out there, I got my DNA tested, there are 36 racial groups so unique, that if you have ancient roman/greek from over one thousand years ago, it still shows up, all humans are not alike.


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InvisibleBoldAsLove
Pokemon Master


Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 2,549
Loc: Kanto Region
Re: The term [Re: SeaShrooms]
    #21204479 - 01/30/15 09:06 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

SeaShrooms said:
So couple things, I never said genetics has to do with blacks being violent, I said it's rap music. I also said, who gives a fuck why they do it, they just need to stop. Secondly, we asserted scientifically that genetics has to do with violent behaviour, to recap.



http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-29760212





I wasn't talking about your views, I was clearly responding to Shins. I responded that research before. They suggested that 5-10% of violent crime in Finland was associated with those two genes. Hardly a definitive link. If that's the only evidence you have to support yor claim then your claim doesn't carry much weight at all. And while we're at it, do you have evidence that rap music encourages violent behavior?


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.

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OfflineSeaShrooms
The dude
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Registered: 09/13/05
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Re: The term [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21204567 - 01/30/15 09:25 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

The topic of discussion, which I set, is that white privilege is a racist term. I never made any other claims besides that, I actually agreed with others that rap music may not be the cause of negros awful behaviour. Also, a lot of what I just replied wasn't to you.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 34,046
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Last seen: 5 hours, 48 minutes
Re: The term [Re: Webster10]
    #21205526 - 01/31/15 05:38 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Webster10 said:


You seemed sure the environment was the only factor a few pages ago.




The only factor that accounts for differences amongst the races.

You and Shins are trying to have two parallel arguments and neither of you can help crisscrossing them.


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