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InvisibleIcelander
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Posts: 95,368
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how can it be spiritual
    #21186815 - 01/27/15 02:35 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

When many are following contradictory paths to get there?  In other words some of your "realizations" contradict someone else's.

Is everyone right?  Is everyone wrong?  Are we just all fos? (my guess)

The other thing is I still can't figure out if "enlightened" people here are happy.  It doesn't seem like they are in better shape than anyone else here in any forum. :shrug:  How odd.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (01/27/15 02:36 PM)

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Offlineleery11
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Re: how can it be spiritual [Re: Icelander]
    #21186941 - 01/27/15 02:56 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

I study meditation in a lineage of kriya + lamp lighting (sikh) ,  have listened to some recordings of our founder Sat Guru, to answer, are enlightened people happy? he mentioned that you live in paradise and heaven when you saturate in the light by meditating 2 hours a day, recommended donating 10% of our day to God, meditation.


Now, from a vantage point such as theirs they operate in a more absolute plane of mind, some call it Godhead or Christ Consciousness or etc, there is however a psychic realm filled with mental illusions which a lot of "enlightened" people operate in and each persons delusions, illusions, images, and etc are stored there, which is where a lot of the confusion about who is right and wrong exists.

I have heard someone who is able to traverse the multiverse that "I haven't met anyone whose stream (consciousness) is infallible yet" so go figure. Enlightenment is a personal journey. .. May all who are seeking find!


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!

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InvisiblePocketLady
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Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 1,773
Re: how can it be spiritual [Re: leery11] * 1
    #21187476 - 01/27/15 04:42 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

When you delve into the esoteric teachings of lots of traditions it appears that they are fundamentally the same. Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, Gnosticism, Kabbalah, esoteric Christianity. They all have the same underlying principles and teach very similar practical techniques, but a lot of it is shrouded in allegory and symbolism, so on the surface they may appear different.

Truth can be subjective, and it also has many layers. Whilst personally I think there is an absolute truth, there are also lots of non-absolute or personal truths and also many was of interpreting the same truth.

I'm not sure how many people on this forum are actually enlightened, if any, but IMHO happiness and spirituality go hand in hand. I can only say what I've experienced, but personally I've come a long way from the misery of earlier years.


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.

~ Rumi



The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir

Edited by PocketLady (01/27/15 04:43 PM)

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OfflinejackSpearows
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Re: how can it be spiritual [Re: Icelander] * 1
    #21187944 - 01/27/15 06:11 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

I don't think spirituality is about attaining the highest possible perception and then just sh**** on everything else.  I guess the way I see it is a bunch of people living personal experiences and doing it with everyone else.  I don't see how being contradictory has much to do with it as far as one's spirituality is concerned.  If anything it could challenge a person and make them re-access their thinking/behavior.  But we're not all trying to solve the same problems. 

That last point is interesting.  The relationship of happiness and enlightenment.  I don't buy it.  That is enlightenment --> happiness.  Because, first off, enlightenment doesn't point to any thing.  Any object that can be grasped.  I see the concept as a sort of insight a person has on their situation as a person.  I can be in a really lame, difficult situation in life yet have a clear, perceptive insight into where I'm at, why I'm there, and just the overall picture of who I am and what is going on.  So by definition an enlightened person could be happy, could be sad.  Depending on their situation in life, how they are interpreting it, and how strongly they latch on to it.  :shrug:

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OfflineRhizohunter
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Re: how can it be spiritual [Re: jackSpearows] * 1
    #21188034 - 01/27/15 06:25 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

I like to think of it as if we are all on a path to obtain knowledge of ourselves and through that process people believe all sorts of things.

You can be right about something while in that stage of your spiritual growth, but be completely wrong in the same way to someone else because they have surpassed that belief. It's all about where you are on your spiritual path and understanding what is happening through that process.

There is no right or wrong, it is all about the feeling invoked within the process on that material you are presenting. There are many levels of understanding and sometimes you may appear wrong because someone interprets what you are saying in the wrong way.

Just my 2 cents

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OfflinejackSpearows
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Re: how can it be spiritual [Re: Rhizohunter]
    #21188103 - 01/27/15 06:39 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Rhizohunter said:
I like to think of it as if we are all on a path to obtain knowledge of ourselves and through that process people believe all sorts of things.

You can be right about something while in that stage of your spiritual growth, but be completely wrong in the same way to someone else because they have surpassed that belief. It's all about where you are on your spiritual path and understanding what is happening through that process.

There is no right or wrong, it is all about the feeling invoked within the process on that material you are presenting. There are many levels of understanding and sometimes you may appear wrong because someone interprets what you are saying in the wrong way.

Just my 2 cents




You're saying there's a sort of linear spiritual process then ?  I've considered this and personally I find it difficult to distinguish between a spiritual development and just your plain everyday development as a person in a society type of thing.  Do you make a distinction there?

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OfflineRhizohunter
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Re: how can it be spiritual [Re: jackSpearows]
    #21188166 - 01/27/15 06:51 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

I like to think of it as re-programming of the mind. We have been programmed our whole lives without even really realizing it is happening. Since I have been in communication with the other realm I have started a process of programming which they take control of.

A lot of weird things happen in this process, feelings of connection to other people, feeling other peoples feelings, reading other peoples minds, and seeing other peoples thoughts.

A lot of it is just coming to terms with it actually happening, and accepting it in your life. The more I believe the farther along I progress on this path.

Lots of schizophrenia type behavior, but it is what it is. Sometimes it gets overwhelming, but I have learned a lot of new things to help me handle it.

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OfflinejackSpearows
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Re: how can it be spiritual [Re: Rhizohunter]
    #21188323 - 01/27/15 07:23 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Rhizohunter said:
I like to think of it as re-programming of the mind. We have been programmed our whole lives without even really realizing it is happening. Since I have been in communication with the other realm I have started a process of programming which they take control of.

A lot of weird things happen in this process, feelings of connection to other people, feeling other peoples feelings, reading other peoples minds, and seeing other peoples thoughts.

A lot of it is just coming to terms with it actually happening, and accepting it in your life. The more I believe the farther along I progress on this path.

Lots of schizophrenia type behavior, but it is what it is. Sometimes it gets overwhelming, but I have learned a lot of new things to help me handle it.



I hear ya.  It seems like its just another way of governing oneself through life and the world.  Decision making.  But it's laced with more of a "surrender to it" vibe than a "look at me making decisions for myself".  Has it gotten you to where you want to go ?  In a materialistic sense ?

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OfflineRhizohunter
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Re: how can it be spiritual [Re: jackSpearows]
    #21188354 - 01/27/15 07:29 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

In a way it has cause I am not a materialistic person and don't have anything :lol:

I am happy with the clothes on my back and a computer, not much else is really needed to make me happy. People love me, so I always have a roof over my head and food to eat.

I'm in a place in my life where I need to be in my journey. Wish it was warmer though :thumbdown:

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OfflinejackSpearows
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Re: how can it be spiritual [Re: Rhizohunter]
    #21188540 - 01/27/15 08:11 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Hit what ya aim for.

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OfflineDeviate
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Re: how can it be spiritual [Re: Icelander]
    #21188665 - 01/27/15 08:40 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
When many are following contradictory paths to get there?  In other words some of your "realizations" contradict someone else's.

Is everyone right?  Is everyone wrong?  Are we just all fos? (my guess)

The other thing is I still can't figure out if "enlightened" people here are happy.  It doesn't seem like they are in better shape than anyone else here in any forum. :shrug:  How odd.





To quote Depak Chopra, contradiction and paradox are the essence of life. Why would you expect everyone's realizations to be the same? One's realizations are largely in relation to their particular misunderstandings, for example a hardcore determinist might realize there actually is nothing but free will whereas someone who always believed they were a free agent directing their lives might realize they are not in control of nearly anything they believed they had control over. Do you see how through the power of the mind and illusion, reality can take almost any shape and then how the unravelling of that shape back to the natural state can look very different in different people? Not all enlightened beings are the same or share the same views of enlightenment, although they usually have a great deal more in common than different.

As for whether enlightened people are happy, which people here are claiming to be enlightened and shouldn't what matters be whether they are happier to compared to how they felt before vs comparing them to other people? Remember, enlightenment takes place outside the mind, and thus can't be said to have any particular effect on the state of someones mind including making it happy or sad. I would say that enlightenment generally kicks off a process that removes the mental tendencies which are the main cause of unhappiness, so becoming enlightened is the surest way to eventual happiness but that doesn't mean there won't be bumpy roads along the way.

Edited by Deviate (01/27/15 08:47 PM)

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InvisibleBill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
Re: how can it be spiritual [Re: Deviate]
    #21188962 - 01/27/15 09:34 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Ice, happiness isn't something someone can be 100% of the time.

The more we work on being peaceful/content, the more we will be happy.


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.


It's just a shot away..

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OfflineChanneling_Spirit
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Re: how can it be spiritual [Re: Icelander] * 1
    #21189132 - 01/27/15 10:08 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
When many are following contradictory paths to get there?  In other words some of your "realizations" contradict someone else's.

Is everyone right?  Is everyone wrong?  Are we just all fos? (my guess)

The other thing is I still can't figure out if "enlightened" people here are happy.  It doesn't seem like they are in better shape than anyone else here in any forum. :shrug:  How odd.



Paradox is a meeting point of two contradictory, yet ESSENTIAL components meet. yin/yang require BOTH for the paradox of both to occur.
Can't know good without bad. Can't know you're having a fun time if you don't know what it means to experience a bad time. Can't know weird without knowing YOUR VERSION of normal.


Everything is possible.

The whole enlightened people and happiness... to me it is not possible to be enlightened and happy for the enlightened state requires a removal of all labels/concepts. It surely seems to be that concepts are what keep us unenlightened.

We are already enlightened, at our common source.

Law of the conservation of energy states that energy cannot be created nor destroyed, just changes shape/expression. There can be no right or wrong without any possible source for a "thinker" to DECIDE what is right/wrong and watch it play out.

I cannot find it now and maybe it doesn't exist, but I recall Plato detailing this very instance IE is everyone right or is everyone wrong? The answer is that everything is correct, within context.

Some may say "drink a glass of water in the morning about 700 ml and you will have a better day and be without back problems." It may work for some, not others. It doesn't mean the one's it worked for are right anymore than it would mean the one's who it didn't work for are wrong.

We all vibrate differently and if we didn't we would experience reality the way we do. We REQUIRE an "opposite" position to hold any position in particular.

Call something weird, think of something weird. It may be weird to some and not others. But to you it IS weird, because of how your experience up until that moment suggested such a situation would be classified.

We are all right. Alright? lol.

All paths are THE path. Ever read the Tao te Ching?

There is no destination, so how could there be a right/wrong? Within limits, relativity wins. Emotions are not universal and thus are not fundamental. But yet, we see the positive/integrative effects emotions can have within limited context. Without emotions, we could not cry during movies, we could not empathize as well with our fellow man and their struggles.

Fundamentally life is meaningless, yet we CONTINUE to, beyond our comprehension, do things a certain way that we FEEL works for us in that moment of experience. We may learn through experience to change that, but it remains that we are creatures of habit.

I see that it doesn't make linear sense, my post, but it doesn't have to because explaining it this way works for me and enriches my life to share else I would not share and just CTRL+A Del it all and go browse something else.

Before enlightenment, carry water and chop wood. After, carry water and chop would. It doesn't change what is needed here in this reality, so that is why the process is continued.

Much love icelander you helped me during an attempted suicide and although you didn't discourage me, it was in that way that you helped me to see what I felt I needed to.

There is nothing to compare to as right/wrong ULTIMATELY. Therefore do as you will, attempt to harm none and help as many as you can in whatever way works for you at that moment. Be compassionate because you I and everyone else and everything else has it's struggles.

Religions/spiritual paths are like paths leading to the top of the mountain. THere is no one right way, but when you reach a certain point, you see all the paths. You see how they could all lead up there. ANd you respect the differences but don't HOLD to the differences as being meritoriously distinct as SEPARATE.

Your body contains TRILLIONS of atoms. All so "you" can experience and interface with reality in this way.

It's all a game, have fun.

"Yipp uhhh-puhhhpooooompa" repeat said phrase n report what you feel if you would like.

Edited by Channeling_Spirit (01/27/15 10:11 PM)

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InvisiblePocketLady
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Posts: 1,773
Re: how can it be spiritual [Re: Channeling_Spirit]
    #21189903 - 01/28/15 04:16 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

That was a great post Channeling_Spirit :awethumb:

In fact I've enjoyed reading all the posts on this thread :mushroom2:


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.

~ Rumi



The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir

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OfflineJaegar
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Re: how can it be spiritual [Re: Channeling_Spirit]
    #21190068 - 01/28/15 06:13 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

To to a retirement village where your elders with similar ideas of spiritual attainment and luminosity reside. You will find demented husks riddled with pain and unable to remember their closet loved ones. Speak to them of your divine gifts of healing and superiority for dreams they have long forgotten.

Edited by Jaegar (01/28/15 06:13 AM)

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: how can it be spiritual [Re: leery11]
    #21190635 - 01/28/15 10:05 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)



Quote:

leery11 said:
I study meditation in a lineage of kriya + lamp lighting (sikh) ,  have listened to some recordings of our founder Sat Guru, to answer, are enlightened people happy? he mentioned that you live in paradise and heaven when you saturate in the light by meditating 2 hours a day, recommended donating 10% of our day to God, meditation.


Now, from a vantage point such as theirs they operate in a more absolute plane of mind, some call it Godhead or Christ Consciousness or etc, there is however a psychic realm filled with mental illusions which a lot of "enlightened" people operate in and each persons delusions, illusions, images, and etc are stored there, which is where a lot of the confusion about who is right and wrong exists.

I have heard someone who is able to traverse the multiverse that "I haven't met anyone whose stream (consciousness) is infallible yet" so go figure. Enlightenment is a personal journey. .. May all who are seeking find!





Sounds questionable.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (01/28/15 10:06 AM)

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: how can it be spiritual [Re: Channeling_Spirit]
    #21190650 - 01/28/15 10:08 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Channeling_Spirit said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
When many are following contradictory paths to get there?  In other words some of your "realizations" contradict someone else's.

Is everyone right?  Is everyone wrong?  Are we just all fos? (my guess)

The other thing is I still can't figure out if "enlightened" people here are happy.  It doesn't seem like they are in better shape than anyone else here in any forum. :shrug:  How odd.



Paradox is a meeting point of two contradictory, yet ESSENTIAL components meet. yin/yang require BOTH for the paradox of both to occur.
Can't know good without bad. Can't know you're having a fun time if you don't know what it means to experience a bad time. Can't know weird without knowing YOUR VERSION of normal.


Everything is possible.

The whole enlightened people and happiness... to me it is not possible to be enlightened and happy for the enlightened state requires a removal of all labels/concepts. It surely seems to be that concepts are what keep us unenlightened.

We are already enlightened, at our common source.

Law of the conservation of energy states that energy cannot be created nor destroyed, just changes shape/expression. There can be no right or wrong without any possible source for a "thinker" to DECIDE what is right/wrong and watch it play out.

I cannot find it now and maybe it doesn't exist, but I recall Plato detailing this very instance IE is everyone right or is everyone wrong? The answer is that everything is correct, within context.

Some may say "drink a glass of water in the morning about 700 ml and you will have a better day and be without back problems." It may work for some, not others. It doesn't mean the one's it worked for are right anymore than it would mean the one's who it didn't work for are wrong.

We all vibrate differently and if we didn't we would experience reality the way we do. We REQUIRE an "opposite" position to hold any position in particular.

Call something weird, think of something weird. It may be weird to some and not others. But to you it IS weird, because of how your experience up until that moment suggested such a situation would be classified.

We are all right. Alright? lol.

All paths are THE path. Ever read the Tao te Ching?

There is no destination, so how could there be a right/wrong? Within limits, relativity wins. Emotions are not universal and thus are not fundamental. But yet, we see the positive/integrative effects emotions can have within limited context. Without emotions, we could not cry during movies, we could not empathize as well with our fellow man and their struggles.

Fundamentally life is meaningless, yet we CONTINUE to, beyond our comprehension, do things a certain way that we FEEL works for us in that moment of experience. We may learn through experience to change that, but it remains that we are creatures of habit.

I see that it doesn't make linear sense, my post, but it doesn't have to because explaining it this way works for me and enriches my life to share else I would not share and just CTRL+A Del it all and go browse something else.

Before enlightenment, carry water and chop wood. After, carry water and chop would. It doesn't change what is needed here in this reality, so that is why the process is continued.

Much love icelander you helped me during an attempted suicide and although you didn't discourage me, it was in that way that you helped me to see what I felt I needed to.

There is nothing to compare to as right/wrong ULTIMATELY. Therefore do as you will, attempt to harm none and help as many as you can in whatever way works for you at that moment. Be compassionate because you I and everyone else and everything else has it's struggles.

Religions/spiritual paths are like paths leading to the top of the mountain. THere is no one right way, but when you reach a certain point, you see all the paths. You see how they could all lead up there. ANd you respect the differences but don't HOLD to the differences as being meritoriously distinct as SEPARATE.

Your body contains TRILLIONS of atoms. All so "you" can experience and interface with reality in this way.

It's all a game, have fun.

"Yipp uhhh-puhhhpooooompa" repeat said phrase n report what you feel if you would like.




Everything is possible.

This is so totally and obviously incorrect that I really cannot commit to reading the rest of the tomb.  More words say less.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineUniversaleyeni
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Registered: 04/18/13
Posts: 528
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Re: how can it be spiritual [Re: Icelander]
    #21191496 - 01/28/15 12:56 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Everything is possible.

This is so totally and obviously incorrect that I really cannot commit to reading the rest of the tomb.  More words say less.




Where's your proof? :tongue:

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InvisibleAlgo
Backstrap Fever


Registered: 12/15/14
Posts: 3,857
Re: how can it be spiritual [Re: Universaleyeni]
    #21191523 - 01/28/15 01:01 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

if your happy your happy. if your sad your sad its all a choice. plaine and simple. unless you have some real problem with your brain and things dont fire correctly which is maybe 1% of the population. IMO


--------------------

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: how can it be spiritual [Re: Universaleyeni]
    #21192808 - 01/28/15 05:41 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Universaleyeni said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Everything is possible.

This is so totally and obviously incorrect that I really cannot commit to reading the rest of the tomb.  More words say less.




Where's your proof? :tongue:




It's in the OP


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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