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InvisibleJvF
Fletcher Detcher


Registered: 02/13/14
Posts: 2,662
Loc: Chicago Flag
MHRB Tea Syrian Rue Alternative
    #21167377 - 01/23/15 01:16 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Ive recently come into a bit of MHRB and am interestrd in making a brew. I have opportunity today, however have no syrian rue or other MAOIs. I plan on doing an a/b extraction im the future, though.

For now, are there any common MAOIs to replace syrian rue that id be able to find locally at the health store or other similar venues?


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Offlines240779
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Re: MHRB Tea Syrian Rue Alternative [Re: JvF]
    #21167943 - 01/23/15 04:21 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Nah, man. This post of mine explains it all about any supplement-type MAOIs: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showthreaded.php/Number/20751838/vc/1

--
The efficacy of herbal MAOIs received harsh criticism in this thread on Bluelight: link

And although not posted in the thread, I asked sekio for his reference for his criticism of catechin and he pointed me to this article.

Yashin A, et al, 2012, Bioavailability of Tea Compounds
--

Edited by s240779 (01/23/15 04:27 PM)

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Offlines240779
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Re: MHRB Tea Syrian Rue Alternative [Re: s240779]
    #21167982 - 01/23/15 04:35 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

The popular supplement, resveratrol, is an MAOI (the extent to which it elicits this property, I don't know, and that's very significant -- does it measure up to harmine/harmaline...). Here's an old discussion on it, including a changa experience report (which isn't that useful in terms of answering the question: will it enable the ingestion of DMT). By all means, experiment.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17591447#17591447

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Offlineflickedbic
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Re: MHRB Tea Syrian Rue Alternative [Re: s240779]
    #21168328 - 01/23/15 06:09 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Black pepper and turmeric combo to potentiate an evaporated supreme dose Passionflower and resveratrol extract mix?


You can't order rue?  Even a corner eastern market has it sold as "esphand" in spices.


--------------------
Favorite entheogen experiences in descending order:
1)Combo of oral DMT + smoked Bufotenine
2)Amanita (urine drank twice)
3)Mushrooms > Achuma 16"+cid(still need higher dose Achuma)> Cid (still need high dose)
4)Morning Glory-HBWR (+cumin, cinnamon aldehyde adducts) > Methyl chavicol (need more activators)
5)Salvia (need to try quid)


All readable matter in the above post is ficticious... any similarities to real life are purely coincidental.

Blessing.

Edited by flickedbic (01/23/15 06:10 PM)

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Offlines240779
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Re: MHRB Tea Syrian Rue Alternative [Re: flickedbic]
    #21168348 - 01/23/15 06:15 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

flickedbic said:
Black pepper and turmeric combo to potentiate an evaporated supreme dose Passionflower and resveratrol extract mix?




Your posts are so not substantiated enough...

:waits:

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Offlineflickedbic
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Re: MHRB Tea Syrian Rue Alternative [Re: s240779]
    #21168442 - 01/23/15 06:36 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Passionflower has MAOI.

I forgot Nutmeg.  "Myristicin is an unselective MAO inhibitor, meaning it acts on both MAO-A and MAO-B. Nutmeg also contains the MAO inhibitors kaempferol and quercetin."*
Here's a turmeric link:
https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&m=86097

Black pepper may aid oral DMT as well as turmeric absorbtion.  I think it also inhibits MAO-B.

*
http://www.livestrong.com/article/82970-common-herbs-mao-inhibitor-activity/


--------------------
Favorite entheogen experiences in descending order:
1)Combo of oral DMT + smoked Bufotenine
2)Amanita (urine drank twice)
3)Mushrooms > Achuma 16"+cid(still need higher dose Achuma)> Cid (still need high dose)
4)Morning Glory-HBWR (+cumin, cinnamon aldehyde adducts) > Methyl chavicol (need more activators)
5)Salvia (need to try quid)


All readable matter in the above post is ficticious... any similarities to real life are purely coincidental.

Blessing.

Edited by flickedbic (01/23/15 07:07 PM)

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InvisibleJvF
Fletcher Detcher


Registered: 02/13/14
Posts: 2,662
Loc: Chicago Flag
Re: MHRB Tea Syrian Rue Alternative [Re: flickedbic]
    #21168536 - 01/23/15 07:15 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks for all the input guys. I ended up just going ahead and performing the extraction today. I cant believe how hard pure lye was to find, I had to go to 3 stores before I found it. I got the bark soaking in basified water now and ill be adding the naphtha kn about 20 min.

wish me luck :grin:


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Offlines240779
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Re: MHRB Tea Syrian Rue Alternative [Re: flickedbic]
    #21168751 - 01/23/15 08:18 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)
Log in to view attachment

Not good enough, flickedbic! This is an example of the type of information we need:

[This is data on the drug, selegiline.]

Platelet MAO activity was measured before and after 1 month’s treatment with selegiline. The doses of 5 or 10 mg daily and 20 mg (i.e., 10 mg X 2) weekly induced a complete inhibition of platelet MAO-B activity from day 7 to day 28 (96.0-99.5%). In contrast, platelet MAO-B inhibition was only 75.9% of the basal value after a dosage of 10 mg weekly. These results demonstrate that 20 mg weekly is the minimal dosage of selegiline able to induce a maximal and long-lasting inhibition of platelet MAO-B activity in patients with parkinsonism.

A Dose-Ranging Study of  Selegiline in Patients with Parkinson’s Disease: Effect on Platelet Monoamine Oxidase Activity. Andreu N, Damase-Michel C, Senard J, Rascol O, and Montastruc J. Movement Disorders. Vol.  12, No. 3, 1997, pgs. 293-296  DOWNLOAD


As you can see, the report tells us which type of monoamine oxidase was inhibited, how much was inhibited, and it gives us the minimum dose needed to achieve 95%+ inihibition (20mg once a week). Take note that the "harsh criticism" I mentioned in this post (#21167943) was that of determining MAO inhibitory properties of chemicals via in vitro testing. That means the testing was done in a petri dish or something. The selegiline study above, by contrast, involved tests performed on humans. One cannot make a claim about a chemical's MAO inhibiting properties until they have that kind of data. Indeed, sekio, the Senior Moderator of the Neuroscience and Pharmacology Discussion on Bluelight says that a chemical that shows promise in a cell culture test can actually be quite poor in a practical application:

"Catechin etc may be weak MAOIs but the issues is that they are extraordinarily poor as pharmaceuticals because of low absorbtion and high first-pass metabolism. Whatever activity shown in a cell assay is unattainable without correspondingly much larger doses in an actual animal." (Apr. 30, 2014)

See post #21167943 for his reference.


You need to be more professional, flickedbic. You need to post numbers and descriptions. You can't just dump links. I should mention that one alternative to a scientific evaluation of MAOIs would be to simply try taking DMT orally with something like resveratrol. Experience reports are also valid, of course. Also, you didn't even reference your claim that Passionflower contains MAOIs. Encyclopedia of Psychoactive Plants* says only one of the species contains beta-carboline ("harm"-type) chemicals: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showthreaded.php/Number/20804518/vc/1


*Christian Rätsch, 2005.

Edited by s240779 (01/23/15 08:32 PM)

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Offlineflickedbic
Sojourner
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Registered: 03/21/11
Posts: 4,676
Loc: Fractalic Fabric
Last seen: 7 days, 3 hours
Re: MHRB Tea Syrian Rue Alternative [Re: s240779]
    #21170215 - 01/24/15 08:50 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Resveratrol and all the other stuff is questionable re: potency.

Why try only one?  If you don't have the big guns of caapi/rue and are looking for herbal alternatives loading up a stack may be a way.


I appreciate the professional approach but I was just offering my suggestions on the question he asked.  It is up to OP to research further or seek clarification.

I was tripping yesterday and if I didn't include all the info forgive me; or put me on ignore if the unprofessionalism of my posts offends you so.

Honestly it seems you're a dick 1/4 of the time and I prescribe you to get it wet more :wink:

Generally however, I think you're a cool cat and do appreciate your approach as well as respect all your work in this field. 

So more on Passionflower...

From the dmtwiki:
"Many species have been found to contain beta-carboline harmala alkaloids,[13][16] some of which are MAO inhibitors. The flower and fruit have only traces of these chemicals, but the leaves and the roots often contain more.[citation needed] The most common of these alkaloids is harman, but harmaline, harmalol, harmine, and harmol are also present.[13][16] "
https://wiki.dmt-nexus.me/Passionflower


Gracie and Zarkov share this: 

"Based on our rough averaging from a variety of sources, our up-front beta-carboline concentration estimates for the plant materials were as follows:
Plant % beta-Carbolines Ratio
(syrian rue=1)
Rue 2.0 - 4.0% 1
Caapi 0.1% 20
Passion flower 0.05 - 0.1% 40"
https://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24241

Take care.


--------------------
Favorite entheogen experiences in descending order:
1)Combo of oral DMT + smoked Bufotenine
2)Amanita (urine drank twice)
3)Mushrooms > Achuma 16"+cid(still need higher dose Achuma)> Cid (still need high dose)
4)Morning Glory-HBWR (+cumin, cinnamon aldehyde adducts) > Methyl chavicol (need more activators)
5)Salvia (need to try quid)


All readable matter in the above post is ficticious... any similarities to real life are purely coincidental.

Blessing.

Edited by flickedbic (01/24/15 09:32 AM)

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