|
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
|
DifferentialQ
In it for the long haul.

Registered: 01/25/14
Posts: 51
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
|
First time doing bulk - is this ready to case?
#21159499 - 01/21/15 07:37 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
The title says it all. This is only 6 days after mixing the spawn with the substrate, and today was the first time I looked at it. It surprised me how far along it is. It kind of looks ready to case. What do you think? Strain is B+

Temperature, for data philes:
|
taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



Registered: 10/16/14
Posts: 18,802
Loc: Journal Land
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: DifferentialQ]
#21159515 - 01/21/15 07:42 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Looks ready to case to me,
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows
TNF Q&A
AMU Q&A
Dominus fortunae meae sum
|
Point78
Stranger

Registered: 06/07/14
Posts: 51
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: taGyo]
#21159523 - 01/21/15 07:45 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Jesus-yes, mine never look that good...
|
DifferentialQ
In it for the long haul.

Registered: 01/25/14
Posts: 51
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: Point78]
#21159563 - 01/21/15 07:55 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Thanks!! Good to confirm my first time around.
|
Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


Registered: 08/26/12
Posts: 7,057
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: DifferentialQ]
#21160126 - 01/21/15 10:23 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Yep. That was ready probably a day and a half or two days ago, believe it or not. You didn't hurt anything, though.
|
TheGuru
Doctor


Registered: 01/19/15
Posts: 77
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: Psilicon]
#21160147 - 01/21/15 10:30 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Dont case it. Its too late you have knotting and at this point will only hinder your first flush.
|
Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


Registered: 08/26/12
Posts: 7,057
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: TheGuru]
#21160162 - 01/21/15 10:33 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
TheGuru said: Dont case it. Its too late you have knotting and at this point will only hinder your first flush.
I don't see any knotting. Mind pointing it out for me?
|
TheGuru
Doctor


Registered: 01/19/15
Posts: 77
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: TheGuru]
#21160165 - 01/21/15 10:34 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
also stop using aluminum. I found that aluminum causes an excess amount of metabolites because the mushies try to eat it. dont believe me then next time u bulk use aluminum disposable baking pans as your container n watch as the mushies eat holes right through it.
|
TheGuru
Doctor


Registered: 01/19/15
Posts: 77
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: TheGuru]
#21160171 - 01/21/15 10:36 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
clear knotting on the bottom left corner of the pan.and the upper middle by where that big pudle of water is against the foil
|
Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


Registered: 08/26/12
Posts: 7,057
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: TheGuru]
#21160175 - 01/21/15 10:38 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
TheGuru said: clear knotting on the bottom left corner of the pan.and the upper middle by where that big pudle of water is against the foil
No, that isn't knotting. That's just a little aerial mycelium. Hyphal knots are actually much, much smaller and denser, and they're an even brighter shade of white.
|
TheGuru
Doctor


Registered: 01/19/15
Posts: 77
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: TheGuru]
#21160186 - 01/21/15 10:41 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
sorry about that. i downloaded the image to get a closer look. what i thought was pinning isnt. but if u insist on casing which isnt needed. do it now n make it a light casing
|
TheGuru
Doctor


Registered: 01/19/15
Posts: 77
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: TheGuru]
#21160191 - 01/21/15 10:43 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
in my experience late casing is worse than no casing. the knotting that is beginning to happen that u cant see is just damaged by the casing n sets ur first flush back a week or more
|
wowimflabbergasted
supercalifragilistic



Registered: 07/16/12
Posts: 18,919
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: Psilicon]
#21160203 - 01/21/15 10:45 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
If it's B+ then just fruit it.
|
TheGuru
Doctor


Registered: 01/19/15
Posts: 77
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
|
|
Agreed fruit it. All a casing after colonizing does is cause problems. Only use late casing on pans n azurescen
|
Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


Registered: 08/26/12
Posts: 7,057
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: TheGuru]
#21160246 - 01/21/15 10:58 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
TheGuru said: Agreed fruit it. All a casing after colonizing does is cause problems. Only use late casing on pans n azurescen
|
wowimflabbergasted
supercalifragilistic



Registered: 07/16/12
Posts: 18,919
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: TheGuru]
#21160256 - 01/21/15 11:01 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
TheGuru said: Agreed fruit it. All a casing after colonizing does is cause problems. Only use late casing on pans n azurescen
When should you case it then, before it's done colonizing? I doubt it.
|
Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,972
Loc: Canada
|
|
Actually you can case when you spawn or right up to when you see knots and primordia. When you case will often determine how the casing performs given the material used and the cultures tendencies. For instance a late casing is preferable with coir where as a peat casing should be allowed to stay in colonizing conditions up to around 30% colonization before fruiting.
|
wowimflabbergasted
supercalifragilistic



Registered: 07/16/12
Posts: 18,919
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#21160283 - 01/21/15 11:10 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Isn't casing when you spawn a "top layer"?
|
Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,972
Loc: Canada
|
|
It is but you don't spawn it as much as apply it. There are also a few different ways to achieve it like I said and which works best will be dependent on your cultures tendencies as well as the materials being used.
|
TheGuru
Doctor


Registered: 01/19/15
Posts: 77
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#21160300 - 01/21/15 11:15 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Believe what u want. I have been doing this for years with 6 dif stains of cubes n not one has benefited from a casing layer applied any later than on the initial bulk mix. Whatever you have to say should come from experience not what u have read online. n if u dont believe me or my technique just look up all of pinpornproducers posts n pics. I taught him how to grow
|
Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,972
Loc: Canada
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: TheGuru]
#21160314 - 01/21/15 11:20 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Yeah? You have tested it with isolates and in different environments? You have cased tubs in alaska and can say there is no difference when casing a tub in Florida? 6 strains too? Wow, I admire your dedication
|
wowimflabbergasted
supercalifragilistic



Registered: 07/16/12
Posts: 18,919
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#21160374 - 01/21/15 11:47 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: It is but you don't spawn it as much as apply it. There are also a few different ways to achieve it like I said and which works best will be dependent on your cultures tendencies as well as the materials being used.
I wasn't exactly saying to "spawn a top layer". What I should have said was, "Isn't casing while spawning referred to as a "top layer"?
|
TheGuru
Doctor


Registered: 01/19/15
Posts: 77
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
|
|
ok top layer is a better name. and yes pasty they where all isolates from agar plates transferred 4 times. location doesnt matter. the environment is a controlled indoor across the board. outdoor grows r not a controlled experiment
|
TheGuru
Doctor


Registered: 01/19/15
Posts: 77
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: TheGuru]
#21160699 - 01/22/15 01:02 AM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
n pasty if u can get an outdoor cube grow to fruit in alaska without modifying its environment u need to call a physicist because u have found a parallel universe
|
Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,972
Loc: Canada
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: TheGuru]
#21161216 - 01/22/15 06:10 AM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
TheGuru said: ok top layer is a better name. and yes pasty they where all isolates from agar plates transferred 4 times. location doesnt matter. the environment is a controlled indoor across the board. outdoor grows r not a controlled experiment
Spoken with the assurance of someone who has never needed to grow in a climate where the furnace runs 24/7 and indoor RH never gets higher than 10%. But i'll leave that fir now and point out that a casing is also beneficial in providing a low nutrient point to pin from. There have been several good demonstrations of this over the years. I also find casing allows for a lot more FAE which results in better pinsets and healthier fruits.
Quote:
TheGuru said: n pasty if u can get an outdoor cube grow to fruit in alaska without modifying its environment u need to call a physicist because u have found a parallel universe
Didn't realize we were discussing outdoor grows here. Maybe I missed something 
No matter, I have still seen lots of outdoor grows on the boards that needed casing due to climate.
|
Sksoul
Pan handler



Registered: 10/31/14
Posts: 397
Loc: Far East
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#21161275 - 01/22/15 06:53 AM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: But i'll leave that fir now and point out that a casing is also beneficial in providing a low nutrient point to pin from. There have been several good demonstrations of this over the years. I also find casing allows for a lot more FAE which results in better pinsets and healthier fruits.
-------------------- Like all great travellers, I have seen more than I remember, and remember more than I have seen.
|
TheGuru
Doctor


Registered: 01/19/15
Posts: 77
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: Sksoul]
#21161353 - 01/22/15 07:27 AM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
again u are saying that your indoor grows are out in the open with no controlled environment. your arguing something that makes no sense. we make tubs n fruiting chambers to negate the open air environment so it makes no dif what the room temp or humidity is since when growing u create a climate not modify the entire house. case all u want i myself in real life ,not a post online, have experienced no benefit with a casing but a def benefit from a top layer.
|
harryskinflap
A Nut Sack



Registered: 11/14/14
Posts: 628
Loc: a nice place
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: TheGuru]
#21161426 - 01/22/15 08:03 AM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
I am pretty sure the dry FAE will be different than a room with humid FAE. (dry out faster) P.S Ive never done a mono. Just chiming in.
--------------------

|
Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,972
Loc: Canada
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: TheGuru]
#21161457 - 01/22/15 08:12 AM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
You obviously have no understanding of how a fruiting chamber works. If the air being brought in is very dry, it will drop RH quite quick, it will also dry the sub out fast around the mono holes. Some people in dry climates run humidifiers, others need to dial in for less FAE. I like to case as I want max FAE and I don't feel like fucking around with humidifiers, at least not until I run a GH. I also find that I can't run a SGFC the same as many other people do. I need to mist much more, have more perlite and I never fan. I also need to re moisten the perlite every 4 days instead of once a month. Try running your dehydrator in the area you fruit in and you can see first hand the effects for yourself. Stop assuming everyone grows in the same environment you do.
Regardless there is still the matter of pinning from low nutrient points to observe. IMO that alone is a decent reason to at least consider a casing 
Edit: to clarify in case my point is not clear, a fruiting chambers function is dependent to some extent on the environment around it. There is a reason people don't run fans with a SGFC. There is a reason some people run a fan with their monos and some people don't. Your homes RH will greatly effect how a given fruiting chamber performs. That's why we dial things in.
Edited by Pastywhyte (01/22/15 11:36 AM)
|
taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



Registered: 10/16/14
Posts: 18,802
Loc: Journal Land
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#21161494 - 01/22/15 08:27 AM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
So if I have a peat casing I apply it right at spawning?
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows
TNF Q&A
AMU Q&A
Dominus fortunae meae sum
|
Sksoul
Pan handler



Registered: 10/31/14
Posts: 397
Loc: Far East
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: taGyo]
#21161529 - 01/22/15 08:38 AM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
taGyo said: So if I have a peat casing I apply it right at spawning?
I think that poster meant to buffer the grains from open air, by adding extra substrate to the top after mixing.
Using a peat casing should be done at 100% colonization. Wait for the casing to get slightly colonized itself and then fruit. Coir casing can be fruited right away (but still applied at 100% colonization.
-------------------- Like all great travellers, I have seen more than I remember, and remember more than I have seen.
|
Sksoul
Pan handler



Registered: 10/31/14
Posts: 397
Loc: Far East
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: Sksoul]
#21161541 - 01/22/15 08:41 AM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
A lot of people get "substrate", "casing", and "covering" mixed up and confused because the words have been thrown around incorrectly for some years.
-------------------- Like all great travellers, I have seen more than I remember, and remember more than I have seen.
|
wowimflabbergasted
supercalifragilistic



Registered: 07/16/12
Posts: 18,919
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: taGyo]
#21161592 - 01/22/15 08:54 AM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
taGyo said: So if I have a peat casing I apply it right at spawning?
I think this is sarcasm...not sure. But, seriously people are confusing "top layer" with "casing" and I don't know how. 2 totally different things done at 2 different times. Top layer is just a thin layer of leftover sub at spawning time. Casing is done after 100% colonization with either jiffy/cvg/etc... It's not that hard?
|
professorFATTYCAP
Training 4 the mycothalon



Registered: 04/08/14
Posts: 751
Last seen: 1 month, 22 days
|
|
I would case it. If this is the frst time u have opened it. U wnt have any issues. Throw 3/8 of an in on there and enjoy the magic of casing pinsets. But what he says about tin foil is true ive had a few eat thru myself. Only when its on the bottom though.
|
taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



Registered: 10/16/14
Posts: 18,802
Loc: Journal Land
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
|
|
Quote:
wowimflabbergasted said:
Quote:
taGyo said: So if I have a peat casing I apply it right at spawning?
I think this is sarcasm...not sure. But, seriously people are confusing "top layer" with "casing" and I don't know how. 2 totally different things done at 2 different times. Top layer is just a thin layer of leftover sub at spawning time. Casing is done after 100% colonization with either jiffy/cvg/etc... It's not that hard? 
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows
TNF Q&A
AMU Q&A
Dominus fortunae meae sum
|
Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


Registered: 08/26/12
Posts: 7,057
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: taGyo]
#21163614 - 01/22/15 03:43 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
taGyo said: So if I have a peat casing I apply it right at spawning?
Depends on your spawn ratio and casing thickness. I've cased at spawning with great results.
|
DifferentialQ
In it for the long haul.

Registered: 01/25/14
Posts: 51
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: Psilicon]
#21165366 - 01/22/15 10:31 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Well I don't mean to interrupt, but as OP thought I'd upload some pictures and give an update. Uncovered the thing and it looks awesome. No contams, smells just right, unh. I mixed up the casing (70/30 verm/coir + gypsum + cc), pasteurized it for an hour at 155C, and put the casing on.
Two concerns: 1. Prior to putting the casing on I saw puddles of water on the mycelium (clearly visible in several pictures). I wicked those away via a paper towel and capillary action (didn't dap at the puddles). Where did the water come from? And did I do the right thing in removing it?
2. The casing layer felt and acted a lot more "clumpy," like dirt rather than wet verm. I'm thinking the cc caused this? Is this a bad sign? I did my best to put the casing layer on in an aerated, fluffy fashion. In either case, what's done is done this time around, just wanting to learn.
|
Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,972
Loc: Canada
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: DifferentialQ]
#21165390 - 01/22/15 10:38 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
The water is most likely condensation generated by the heat of the colonizing substrate. Normal and nothing to worry about. I don't even wipe it up if I am gonna case, just let the casing absorb it.
As for the consistency, sounds about right. Actually if you think coir was dirt like, wait till ya try peat Coir is actually my favorite casing material, tho I think I am going to go back to peat and sand for a bit. Its good to switch things up regularly 
OP your sub looks great, keep us posted
|
professorFATTYCAP
Training 4 the mycothalon



Registered: 04/08/14
Posts: 751
Last seen: 1 month, 22 days
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#21167012 - 01/23/15 11:13 AM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
I agree no need to sop up puddles I get them regularly and just case over it the medium just absorbs it. As for clumps. I use a 50/50+ I strain the peat as much as possible from sticks clumps and hard matter. However if the moisture content is above optimum it tends to clump after pcing. More often than not I mix my casing on the slightly dryer side to avoid this.adding more moisture is easy. Taking it out proves more difficult
|
Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,972
Loc: Canada
|
|
You PC peat? I hope you lime it then. Sterilized peat is sketchy IMO.
|
professorFATTYCAP
Training 4 the mycothalon



Registered: 04/08/14
Posts: 751
Last seen: 1 month, 22 days
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#21168610 - 01/23/15 07:36 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Yeah I lime it. Tbsp.per cup o peat. I pc everything except the straw. I past. That. Out of 40 monos I mite lose one and that is to a spawning jar I think is questionable but still give it shot. Now I live by the rule of doubt. If there's a doubt then there is no doubt junk it. It ain't wrth the gamble time and energy
|
DifferentialQ
In it for the long haul.

Registered: 01/25/14
Posts: 51
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
|
|
Ok, update. Advice also appreciated.
It's been 5 days since casing, and I see almost no growth. Did I fuck up the amount of gypsum or cc used or something? These are the quantities I used:
7 parts verm 3 parts coir 1 part calcium carbonate 1 part gypsum powder
This was pasteurized at 150-160C for an hour. Casing is 1/2 - 3/4" thick.
|
Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,972
Loc: Canada
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: DifferentialQ]
#21187804 - 01/27/15 05:49 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
That's a lot of gypsum to use in a casing, I only use it for the sub myself. What is the consistency of that, It looks really solid. Also thats a lot of lime, i use a teaspoon per quart for peat, i hope its not too hot. I dislike adding stuff to coir for casing, its best on its own, tho adding verm is okay. Also 3/4" thick is damn thick IMO. I never go more than 1/2". Gonna take some time for the myc to work its way through.
I almost want to tell you to take that all off and just lay down plain coir. That's the beauty of coir, you don't need to add a bunch of stuff. You don't even need to properly pasteurize. Bucket and done.
I think I see some myc peeking through so it might be okay. But hold off on the gypsum and lime next time.
Edited by Pastywhyte (01/27/15 05:58 PM)
|
DifferentialQ
In it for the long haul.

Registered: 01/25/14
Posts: 51
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#21187913 - 01/27/15 06:06 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Awesome, thanks for the advice. I really appreciate it. I was just going off of RR's video on casing, but using 70/30 verm/coir instead of the 50/50 peat/verm. Do you think I screwed up the ratios or by switching to verm/coir I offset the pH or something?
|
Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,972
Loc: Canada
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: DifferentialQ]
#21188198 - 01/27/15 06:57 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
The verm coir is fine, you can case with either or. I use straight coir and i also have used straight verm lots. Mix them as you please. My concern is the gypsum and calcium carbonate. Those are really high ratios and also explains why the texture felt like mud. Next time skip those unless your casing with peat. Even then a tsp of calcium carbonate per quart is plenty, use things like that sparingly if at all. Gypsum is not really needed for a coir casing either and just a pinch or two per quart is all you need if using in casing materials.
|
Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


Registered: 08/26/12
Posts: 7,057
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#21188343 - 01/27/15 07:27 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: The verm coir is fine, you can case with either or. I use straight coir and i also have used straight verm lots. Mix them as you please. My concern is the gypsum and calcium carbonate. Those are really high ratios and also explains why the texture felt like mud. Next time skip those unless your casing with peat. Even then a tsp of calcium carbonate per quart is plenty, use things like that sparingly if at all. Gypsum is not really needed for a coir casing either and just a pinch or two per quart is all you need if using in casing materials.
Another word for gypsum is plaster of paris.
|
DifferentialQ
In it for the long haul.

Registered: 01/25/14
Posts: 51
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: Psilicon]
#21188436 - 01/27/15 07:47 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Hmmm, everything you've said makes sense. The mycelium hasn't made much progress through the casing at all. I'm quite confident with care I could remove 80% of it without damaging the healthy myc underneath. Do you think I should give it a shot or leave it and wait? Which is the less risky option? I really don't want to lose this substrate since it was looking so awesome.
|
Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,972
Loc: Canada
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: DifferentialQ]
#21188451 - 01/27/15 07:50 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
A healthy culture can take a surprising amount of abuse. I say go for it.
|
DifferentialQ
In it for the long haul.

Registered: 01/25/14
Posts: 51
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#21193758 - 01/28/15 08:17 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Great, thanks for your advice. I re-cased this evening with coir. I'm optimistic - there still were no signs of contams, everything smelled right. Won't be checking on it for 3 days, I'll post pics then!
Edited by DifferentialQ (01/28/15 08:17 PM)
|
Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,972
Loc: Canada
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: DifferentialQ]
#21194194 - 01/28/15 09:42 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Given the history of this particular tub I would be sure to put into fruiting conditions soon, do not wait for it to get really colonized. As the sub repairs itself it will want to revert to a strong veg state and will blow through your casing really fast if your not careful.
|
psyke101
Test Subject


Registered: 04/30/11
Posts: 748
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: DifferentialQ]
#21195252 - 01/29/15 07:06 AM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
DifferentialQ said: This was pasteurized at 150-160C for an hour.
Hey op, not sure if that's a typo but you should be pasteurising at around 65C (or 150F), not 150-160C. Temps that high will sterilise not pasteurise.
That's probably not related to the problem u were having with ur casing but I just picked it up where u described your method.
Edited by psyke101 (01/29/15 07:07 AM)
|
Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,972
Loc: Canada
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: psyke101]
#21195327 - 01/29/15 07:42 AM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
psyke101 said:
Quote:
DifferentialQ said: This was pasteurized at 150-160C for an hour.
Hey op, not sure if that's a typo but you should be pasteurising at around 65C (or 150F), not 150-160C. Temps that high will sterilise not pasteurise.
That's probably not related to the problem u were having with ur casing but I just picked it up where u described your method.
160 f will not sterilize anything and is a fine temperature to pastuerize. Really you can go as high as 170 f but I would not push it higher than that or you do risk partial sterilization. We often say between 140-160 as a safe range to be in.
|
psyke101
Test Subject


Registered: 04/30/11
Posts: 748
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#21195368 - 01/29/15 08:02 AM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Pastywhyte said:
Quote:
psyke101 said:
Quote:
DifferentialQ said: This was pasteurized at 150-160C for an hour.
Hey op, not sure if that's a typo but you should be pasteurising at around 65C (or 150F), not 150-160C. Temps that high will sterilise not pasteurise.
That's probably not related to the problem u were having with ur casing but I just picked it up where u described your method.
160 f will not sterilize anything and is a fine temperature to pastuerize. Really you can go as high as 170 f but I would not push it higher than that or you do risk partial sterilization. We often say between 140-160 as a safe range to be in.
Read his post again Pasty, he wrote 150-160C. As in Celcius. 160F is fine, 160C is way outside the safe pasteurisation range. That's like over 300F. But like I said it's probably a typo.. He probably meant to write F not C..
|
Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,972
Loc: Canada
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: psyke101]
#21195594 - 01/29/15 09:22 AM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|

I need more redbull. . .
|
psyke101
Test Subject


Registered: 04/30/11
Posts: 748
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#21197543 - 01/29/15 03:45 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
|
DifferentialQ
In it for the long haul.

Registered: 01/25/14
Posts: 51
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: psyke101]
#21197919 - 01/29/15 04:59 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Oops, yeah, I meant F, not C!!! Thanks!
|
professorFATTYCAP
Training 4 the mycothalon



Registered: 04/08/14
Posts: 751
Last seen: 1 month, 22 days
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: DifferentialQ]
#21206195 - 01/31/15 10:11 AM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Its obvious u meant farenheiti would think reaching temps 300degrees f. Or higher would require the use of a heat source beyond the means of any elec or gas rangetop
|
DifferentialQ
In it for the long haul.

Registered: 01/25/14
Posts: 51
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
|
|
The myc is finally poking through the re-cased layer. Still smells good, no sign of contams. Seems like it's taken a while, but I did put this sub through a lot. Still don't know how I messed up the casing layer mix ratios so badly, but anyhow. I patched the spots poking through and will check on it again in a couple of days. Just thought I'd give an update!! Let me know if you guys have any thoughts, especially about replenishing moisture if you think it needs it.
|
Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


Registered: 08/26/12
Posts: 7,057
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: DifferentialQ]
#21218587 - 02/02/15 09:37 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Like PW said, you can case with pure coir or with pure verm. The ideal ratio of them has yet to be agreed on, believe it or not, so you didn't really screw up anything.
Your substrates look really good, except for one spot on the middle of the far-right, which looks kind of bubbly and not unlike trich. It could just be a bad angle on some cube mycelium pushing through, but keep an eye on that.
|
Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,972
Loc: Canada
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: Psilicon]
#21218598 - 02/02/15 09:38 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
|
taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



Registered: 10/16/14
Posts: 18,802
Loc: Journal Land
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: Pastywhyte] 1
#21219732 - 02/03/15 07:03 AM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|

I see it.
Here are some pics of what you're looking for OP:
Trichoderma On Casing Layer:

-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows
TNF Q&A
AMU Q&A
Dominus fortunae meae sum
|
DifferentialQ
In it for the long haul.

Registered: 01/25/14
Posts: 51
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: taGyo]
#21223106 - 02/03/15 08:14 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Thanks guys, I'll keep my eye out for trich. That spot you're referring to was some of the previous casing. I couldn't scrape it all off without damaging the myc so there is about a 1/8" of the previous casing underneath the coir. Everything looks healthy to me! At the rate it's coming through the casing, I think I'll be fruiting Friday or Saturday. I'll keep you posted!!
Edited by DifferentialQ (02/03/15 08:39 PM)
|
DifferentialQ
In it for the long haul.

Registered: 01/25/14
Posts: 51
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: DifferentialQ]
#21241880 - 02/07/15 11:45 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Fruited today. Though a bit stressful as it was my first time getting a monotub ready, I'm feeling pretty good about the grow. I did have a scare, though - as soon as I pulled the tin foil off the sub, I saw these little white bubbly patches of myc. At first I felt they were trich and something was horribly wrong. I got very depressed for about 10 seconds.
Then I looked closer. I'm hoping you'll confirm my conclusion - I think they're the beginnings of hyphal knots. I went back and did some research on hyphal knots and my hope slowly grew confident. Let me know if you guys agree that I should feel good. The smell is great, nothing otherwise seems off.
Also, let me know if you think I should have gone to fruit sooner. As always, thanks a bunch for your help.
|
Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


Registered: 08/26/12
Posts: 7,057
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: DifferentialQ]
#21243100 - 02/08/15 10:30 AM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Those do look like knots to me, and the spot that had looked trichy seems to have filled in with good-looking cubensis myc. In fact, it looks like they might be the same spot. You have a really nice-looking sub. Congrats, man.
|
taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



Registered: 10/16/14
Posts: 18,802
Loc: Journal Land
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: Psilicon]
#21243346 - 02/08/15 11:45 AM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Just subtsrate, you don't have trich,
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows
TNF Q&A
AMU Q&A
Dominus fortunae meae sum
|
DifferentialQ
In it for the long haul.

Registered: 01/25/14
Posts: 51
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: taGyo]
#21283709 - 02/16/15 04:04 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Thought I'd give an update and solicit comments / advice from veteran growers. Overall I would say things are going well, though obviously a full canopy would be ideal. Is a full canopy (if you get one) more common for 2nd flushes, or does it happen with the first if it's going to happen?
Also, I'm having trouble discerning if there is consensus on how to pick flushes from a monotub: should I pick them all at once even if some are small and the veils aren't broken, or should I pick them on a mushroom by mushroom case, as the veil breaks/is about to break?
|
taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



Registered: 10/16/14
Posts: 18,802
Loc: Journal Land
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: DifferentialQ]
#21283722 - 02/16/15 04:07 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Pick them as they mature, when the veils show up or when they tare. I always pick at the tare.
The way that looks I wouldn't expect a full canopy, seems like the myc didn't fully colonize everything. Your second flush could, however, produce more fruits then your first.
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows
TNF Q&A
AMU Q&A
Dominus fortunae meae sum
|
Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,972
Loc: Canada
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: taGyo]
#21283915 - 02/16/15 04:35 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Fully canopies are often due to the mercy of genetics. Isolates, clones and really limited genetics can really help. If your sub is loaded with strains then all you can do is provide the best conditions possible and hope that most of the strains will fruit at the same time.
With most ms subs I see the first flush blend right into the second often needing to harvest for several days. Given this is your first run with bulk and you cased as well, you should be happy methinks. Especially given ya cased it with cement at first 
I will say that it looks a bit dry in there. I suggest you stuff the bottom poly tighter and mist it when you see the coir casing get lighter.
|
DifferentialQ
In it for the long haul.

Registered: 01/25/14
Posts: 51
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: taGyo]
#21283997 - 02/16/15 04:42 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Thanks as always taGyo and Pastywhyte.
Re: genetics, good to know.
Re: casing with cement at first , I totally agree. Pretty glad, considering it's my first attempt. I've learned a lot. Still hoping to get 50g or so dried, we'll see.
Re: looking a bit dry, I agree. I misted and will stuff the poly a bit tighter.
|
taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



Registered: 10/16/14
Posts: 18,802
Loc: Journal Land
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: DifferentialQ]
#21284124 - 02/16/15 05:02 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
My first attempt went horribly wrong.
Did 10 PF cakes, ordered five premade, one made it out and produced two pitiful fruits.
My first bulk I pulled 5 oz, tripped twice fresh and they were great, then I improperly dried them and lost the rest of the flush.
All a learning experience,
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows
TNF Q&A
AMU Q&A
Dominus fortunae meae sum
|
DifferentialQ
In it for the long haul.

Registered: 01/25/14
Posts: 51
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: taGyo]
#21285624 - 02/16/15 09:39 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Out of curiosity, how did you improperly dry them?
|
DifferentialQ
In it for the long haul.

Registered: 01/25/14
Posts: 51
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: DifferentialQ]
#21290454 - 02/17/15 08:07 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Update: Looks like I'm going to pull ~180 grams wet from the first flush. This is my biggest one so far. Woot!
|
Dingaling
Beginner


Registered: 07/07/14
Posts: 50
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: DifferentialQ]
#21290970 - 02/17/15 09:34 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Nice going!
|
DifferentialQ
In it for the long haul.

Registered: 01/25/14
Posts: 51
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: Dingaling]
#21319851 - 02/23/15 08:47 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Thought I'd give a final update. First flush I managed to pull ~250g wet, second flush is looking more like 100g. In addition to the monotub I also had some PF tek cakes going. The mushrooms that came from those cakes were FAR stumpier (see the fist image below). What causes the difference? Strain is the same - B+.
Just wanted to say thank you to those who gave me advice in this thread. As my first bulk grow I made some serious mistakes, but thanks to you all I managed to still yield a decent(ish) harvest. This only encourages me to refine my skills.
THANK YOU!
|
taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



Registered: 10/16/14
Posts: 18,802
Loc: Journal Land
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: DifferentialQ]
#21320351 - 02/23/15 10:27 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Congrats on your first bulk grow and welcome to mush cult,

You did a great job,

Learning is the most important part. How are you drying those cubes?
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows
TNF Q&A
AMU Q&A
Dominus fortunae meae sum
|
DifferentialQ
In it for the long haul.

Registered: 01/25/14
Posts: 51
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: taGyo]
#21329453 - 02/25/15 05:28 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Thanks!!
Two days under a fan, then a few days in a sealed jar with desiccant packs. Once cracker dry, I put the jar in my freezer. I'm unsure about the freezer part, let me know if that's a bad idea.
|
Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


Registered: 08/26/12
Posts: 7,057
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
Re: First time doing bulk - is this ready to case? [Re: DifferentialQ]
#21329461 - 02/25/15 05:30 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
No, if they're cracker dry then the freezer is fine.
|
|