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OfflineStraya
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First Trichocereus grow attempt
    #21148532 - 01/20/15 09:01 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Hello everyone :smile:

In a few hours i'm going to attempt my first germination of bridgesii and peruvianus. I have acquired 20 seeds of each and bought some bits and pieces yesterday. I bought horticulturist sand, cacti potting mix and some perlite. Also i bought a container that was quite shallow and has a lid for humidity to germinate the seeds in.

My intention is to mix up the soil to a 2 parts potting mix: 1 part perlite: 1/2 part sand for my mix. Has anyone got any further recommendations on this or should this be ok?

I then intend to sterilise the soil in the microwave for 2-3 minutes, let it cool down and then place the seeds in the tray which will also have been sterilised.

Another question i wanted to ask was is it okay to place the bridgesii and peruvianus seeds in the same tray? The tray is about a foot long and im thinking i will insert a sterilised piece of cardboard or something in the middle to have two sections, one for bridgesii on one half of the tray and the other half for peruvianus? Does this sound okay having the two different species in the same tray for germination?

After i place the seeds in the tray i will lightly mist them with water (is it essential to make sure it's sterile? Would filtered water suffice or should i boil some water, wait for it to cool and use that?)

Lastly i will place the lid on and have heard many many many different things about lighting. Would it be ok to have the container with a clear lid out in the sun in a high exposure spot? I have read lots that you need special lights of sorts for optimal success in germination which i can go and purchase however i feel that this is partially unnatural and that the seeds should take off with sunlight as they would in nature?

Great to be a part of this great forum and i cannot wait to getting into growing multiple types of weird and whacky plants!

Cheers from Australia

P.S. i hope this is an acceptable post for here, i have done lot's of research before posting and found so much conflicting information i thought i'd ask you guys. :smile:

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InvisibleMostly_HarmlessM
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Registered: 05/12/09
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Re: First Trichocereus grow attempt [Re: Straya]
    #21148595 - 01/20/15 09:20 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

That mix should be ok for trichs. Remove/sift out any large chunks. Surface sow, and a light misting is ok. Cooled boiled water is fine, a touch of h2o2 doesn't go amiss but isn't essential.

No special lighting is needed. A 10w CFL would do just fine for a couple of pots of seeds. I advise against leaving a clear container in the sun, you will cook the seedlings! Find a spot with bright shade, a window sill that receives filtered light, something like that. They don't need direct sunlight in their first year and especially when freshly sprouted.


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●  EG Rules and Guidelines ● 


|| Lophophora Growers Unite! || Trichocereus Growers Unite! || Stone Eaters - A Soil Revolution ||


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OfflineStraya
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Registered: 03/04/12
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Last seen: 5 years, 5 days
Re: First Trichocereus grow attempt [Re: Mostly_Harmless]
    #21148832 - 01/20/15 10:05 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Mostly_Harmless said:
That mix should be ok for trichs. Remove/sift out any large chunks. Surface sow, and a light misting is ok. Cooled boiled water is fine, a touch of h2o2 doesn't go amiss but isn't essential.

No special lighting is needed. A 10w CFL would do just fine for a couple of pots of seeds. I advise against leaving a clear container in the sun, you will cook the seedlings! Find a spot with bright shade, a window sill that receives filtered light, something like that. They don't need direct sunlight in their first year and especially when freshly sprouted.




Fantastic, i will get some H2O2 and with the cfl light would it be sufficient if you had the plant on the window-sill and when the light is turned on of an evening or morning would that be enough or would it be better to have the container with a light over it 12 or 24 hours a day?

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InvisibleMostly_HarmlessM
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Re: First Trichocereus grow attempt [Re: Straya]
    #21148955 - 01/20/15 10:37 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Being CAM plants, cacti don't need or possibly even take advantage of 24/7 lighting, they have night time processes to take care of when temperatures cool and there is less moisture lost when they open their stomata at night. 15-18hrs a day is sufficient.
The seedlings will give signs if they are receiving too much or too little light. They will turn red and darken and stall growth if too bright for them, or they stretch if too little light, trying to find more.


--------------------
●  EG Rules and Guidelines ● 


|| Lophophora Growers Unite! || Trichocereus Growers Unite! || Stone Eaters - A Soil Revolution ||


You must gather your party before venturing forth.

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InvisibleMrGiraffe

Registered: 04/04/14
Posts: 3,149
Re: First Trichocereus grow attempt [Re: Mostly_Harmless]
    #21149849 - 01/20/15 01:40 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

I wouldn't bother with the cardboard separator, could end up growing shit eventually.  Just sow the bridge on one side and the peru on the other and mark at least one side so you know which half is which.


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InvisibleMostly_HarmlessM
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Re: First Trichocereus grow attempt [Re: MrGiraffe]
    #21149901 - 01/20/15 01:53 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Good catch there.
I cut old plastic plant labels and use those as fences between each plot :smile:

OP: no problem growing both lots in a shared pot or tray, their requirements are the same. The differences between bridgesii and peruvianus aren't of concern this early on. Some find bridgesii can be less water tolerant than pach/peru but at the seedling stage they all love the humidity.


--------------------
●  EG Rules and Guidelines ● 


|| Lophophora Growers Unite! || Trichocereus Growers Unite! || Stone Eaters - A Soil Revolution ||


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OfflineBigHeart
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Re: First Trichocereus grow attempt [Re: Mostly_Harmless]
    #21151277 - 01/20/15 05:43 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

I'd skip the perlite, it is too chunky.  Mix your potting mix with sand and if you can get it, vermiculite.  They love heat to start germination, if you put them out in the sun for a few hours per day with the lid off that will do it, just mist them occasionally and put them inside at night with the cover on.  I had 75%+ germination rates doing it like this.  Also, don't bury the seeds, they need light to germinate so just sprinkle them on top and lightly press into place. If your tap water is hard (mineral rich) consider using distilled water, but always use a spray mister bottle or your seeds will move around.


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Edited by BigHeart (01/20/15 05:44 PM)

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InvisibleMrGiraffe

Registered: 04/04/14
Posts: 3,149
Re: First Trichocereus grow attempt [Re: BigHeart]
    #21151290 - 01/20/15 05:46 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

:whathesaid:
About the perlite.  Sometimes if there is to much perlite on the top, the seedling sometimes has a hard time trying to anchor into the soil.  You could always make it apart of your mix and fill the container mostly with that and have a top layer that is the sand and potting mix.  Vermiculite is great at holding water.


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OfflineStraya
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Re: First Trichocereus grow attempt [Re: MrGiraffe]
    #21153910 - 01/21/15 06:01 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Okay thanks heaps guys this has been very helpful

I'm curious about the leaving them out in the sun for a couple of hours a day, this sounds great but i've read in a few places that exposing the seeds to full oxygen is bad for them or some shit, it's so hard finding the right answers online with so many opinions.

I will do a general mix for the bottom 2/3 of the tray and then for the top i will make a soil/sand only mix so that it enables the roots to anchor into the soil does this sound ok?

I will check my cactus mix to see if it has any vermiculite in it and if it doesn't i will go and buy some. Would it be worthwhile adding a nutrient such as gypsum or anything to the mix to help feed the seedlings whilst they grow or will there be enough nutrients in the mix already?

Does everyone agree to leaving seeds in the sun for a couple hours after misting them maybe to prevent them drying out? I intend to leave them on my front verandah which is shaded but still gets nice and warm would this be suitable?

I'm thinking of adding one of our reptile heat mats under the tray for the first few months also

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InvisibleMrGiraffe

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Re: First Trichocereus grow attempt [Re: Straya]
    #21153933 - 01/21/15 06:19 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

I think the sun thing is the issue of drying them out and low RH, the seedlings like a high humidity environment because they have small root systems.

I wouldn't even make the top layer that thick, you really just want the seeds to be able to have good contact with the soil surface.  Which some times the perlite can prevent depending on how much is in the mix.

The cactus mix is probably mostly made up of peat and sand, it may have a little perlite as well.  Gypsum is calcium and sulfate, lacking plenty of other nutrients.  I'll let some one with more fertilizer experience answer that one.  I've just been using a very weak 20-20-20 miracle grow fert because it's what I have.

If you mist and they're in the sun, you'll want to be careful that the don't get burned from the droplets magnifying the sunlight.


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InvisibleMostly_HarmlessM
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Re: First Trichocereus grow attempt [Re: Straya]
    #21153950 - 01/21/15 06:32 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

I don't think the sand is really essential and does have potential to cause problems, so be careful with it. Think how wet sand acts at the beach, it compacts and molds easy. If a top layer succumbs similarly, then seedling roots have a tough time penetrating through and they languish on top and then die if not rectified. A course grit might serve better, they don't want too fine a grain size, or too large the seeds vanish too far down the gaps.


--------------------
●  EG Rules and Guidelines ● 


|| Lophophora Growers Unite! || Trichocereus Growers Unite! || Stone Eaters - A Soil Revolution ||


You must gather your party before venturing forth.

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OfflineStraya
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Re: First Trichocereus grow attempt [Re: MrGiraffe]
    #21154037 - 01/21/15 07:24 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Okay awesome, should i leave the sand out completely in your opinion mostly_harmless or just use a tiny amount?

I just don't want to waste a few months on my first grow being a dud with such a wealth of knowledge on here. Nothing else you'd recommend adding to the mix?

I might just keep them out of the sun altogether, keep them somewhere shady that gets plenty of indirect light and warmth.

P.S. i left positive feedback for all of you for your help guys cheers, except u MrGiraffe it said i couldn't because you had it turned off or something

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InvisibleMostly_HarmlessM
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Re: First Trichocereus grow attempt [Re: Straya]
    #21154145 - 01/21/15 08:07 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

I've not used sand in my mixes now in a while, so it isn't something I tend to recommend to others. But some growers have no issues at all, a common simple mix suggested is coir/perlite/sand.
Using a sieve on the sand might be handy, removing the finest silt, and use the larger grains. When I mention from my own mixes cornish or horticultural grit, the grain size of that is ~2-6mm.

This is cornish grit, perlite and moler (and trich seedlings :smile: )


--------------------
●  EG Rules and Guidelines ● 


|| Lophophora Growers Unite! || Trichocereus Growers Unite! || Stone Eaters - A Soil Revolution ||


You must gather your party before venturing forth.

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Invisibleferrel_human
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Re: First Trichocereus grow attempt [Re: Mostly_Harmless]
    #21154587 - 01/21/15 10:16 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Mostly right about the sand. I use it but it's really not needed. And I tend to use it in small amounts. When you go overboard with it is when you have problems. I have grown trich in soil with and without sand. So :shrug:


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Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely.
-Karode

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OfflineBigHeart
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Re: First Trichocereus grow attempt [Re: ferrel_human]
    #21157239 - 01/21/15 01:25 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

I think the soil mix isn't really that complicated, as long as it's not so chunky that the seeds fall in gaps and don't get light to germinate.  I like sand because it adds some weight to the soil, but I wouldn't use more than 25% sand and haven't had any issues with compacting.  The reason I recommend vermiculite is because it holds water in place, versus perlite which repels water and promotes drainage.  Perlite is also extremely light weight, and some of my seedlings attached to perlite chunks which was fine at first but as they get more top heavy they started falling over so I had to gently push them upright and into the soil more which is pretty hard considering how small and weightless baby seedlings are.  I didn't know that when I did this batch of seedlings because they were my first batch and it was a learning experience.  Next time I will be using only potting mix, vermiculite and sand.

The main things you gotta pay attention to is letting the seeds get nice and warm (90 degrees F or more), letting them get some sunlight by sowing on top of the soil (indirect sunlight will work also, but I believe full sun for an hour or two a day is better) and keeping them moist.  If you follow those three steps you're guaranteed to have germination, assuming the seeds are viable. 

Some of my seeds germinated in 48 hours, then most of the rest caught up over the course of the first week.  There were a few stragglers that took longer to germinate, and I just noticed last week there is one that finally germinated after 5 months lol.


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Edited by BigHeart (01/21/15 01:26 PM)

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