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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,485
Re: Is Language Art? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21150825 - 01/20/15 03:57 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Look you can promote anything to the level of art and appreciate it that way,
but
a work of art needs no promotion,
it becomes a thing unto itself and is marvelous on its own just as it is.

the artist can walk away and disappear, the works still works, and inspires.

that is different than a house, which the builder walks away from and stands on it's own - great workmanship etc. and people use it but
if it is not inspiring
if it does not make you take pause
then it is just stuff. maybe great serviceable stuff, but not art.

art always uplifts the human spirit. even after the artist is gone. even if you don't ever know the artist's name.

the business of art is not art
the teaching of art is not art
nature is not art
school is not art

is the internet art?
I think it is nature.


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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OfflineTitus_Pullo


Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 461
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
Re: Is Language Art? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #21150840 - 01/20/15 04:04 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Anything can be considered art. It's pathetic. You end up with 7 year old abstract art prodigies who's stuff only looks good because a photographer was able to make it look somewhat decent. It's pure vanity. Art doesn't take skill anymore. Just like how anyone can be an author or musician now that publishing and producing this shit has gotten a lot easier. The west needs to return to the Roman and Greek ideals when it comes to art. The pursuit of perfection.

http://tooartistic.com/impressive-youngest-abstract-artist-in-the-world-has-only-7-years/

7 year old artist link

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Offlineakira_akuma
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Registered: 08/28/09
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Re: Is Language Art? [Re: Titus_Pullo] * 1
    #21150877 - 01/20/15 04:11 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

good for the kids, but that is obviously some niche shit. do you do art?

because honestly, not only is that very niche, but most abstract art is... well, it's out.

it's certainly not contemporary anymore. :shrug: which is why this shit is niche. it's a niche market, which people still happen to buy into because abstract shit just gets people sometimes.

but it's not "big" right now, past this inherent niche.

art is still considered the pursuit of perfection.

so what if anyone can publish their own stuff? some of it is good, and some of it mediocre, and some of it is shit. who cares? you can only go for the good stuff; which i'd bet isn't even the best stuff, because everyone's got a different opinion of what that is... you like classical music? do you know any recently composed and good classical music? i do.

and i know of some extremely good abstract painters, and some that are better then Rothko. most definitely.

like this



you don't think this looks cool?

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OfflineTitus_Pullo


Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 461
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
Re: Is Language Art? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21150892 - 01/20/15 04:14 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Yes, I am very fond of classical and even opera (Pavarotti being my fav). I also like Jazz and other forms of music that require a high degree of technical proficiency and don't rely on catchy hooks or verses to sell their music.

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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Posts: 38,485
Re: Is Language Art? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21150894 - 01/20/15 04:14 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

looks like a geode


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Is Language Art? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #21150915 - 01/20/15 04:19 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Titus_Pullo said:
Yes, I am very fond of classical and even opera (Pavarotti being my fav). I also like Jazz and other forms of music that require a high degree of technical proficiency and don't rely on catchy hooks or verses to sell their music.



but catchy hooks and verses are equally as enthralling.

just listen to this song, and tell me it isn't absolutely spot on.



the riffs, the lyrics, the simplicity, makes this song good.


PS: have you heard Morton Feldman: Neither? very strange.
Quote:

redgreenvines said:
looks like a geode




yeah, sorta a burning geode.

Edited by akira_akuma (01/20/15 04:29 PM)

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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: Is Language Art? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21152154 - 01/20/15 08:34 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Art is a word. Words are used for communication. A question about what art "really" is represents nothing more than a misunderstanding of language. I call something art, you say it isn't art, vice versa, it doesn't matter, neither of us have any more "direct" a perception of what art is (and there is no such direct perception, if there is please show me).


If I sell you a toilet for $5000 because I called it art and you agreed, then fantastic. It doesn't matter.

If I refuse to go see a Jackson Pollack exhibition because I think it isn't art, then fantastic. It doesn't matter.



I suggest you spend your time on more worthwhile pursuits. Welding is a good one.

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OfflineSycoNautix
Male

Registered: 01/30/12
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Loc: NorCal
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Re: Is Language Art? [Re: xFrockx]
    #21153471 - 01/21/15 12:42 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Art is anything that is created, and can be perceived in some sort fashion, eg. sight, sound, etc.

Good art, is art that contains a number of different ways it can be perceived. Art that is bad can only be perceived in very minimal ways. People will perceive a piece of bad art and know what it is, or what it is trying to accomplish.

A great piece of art will cause someone to perceive it, and really have no idea what it might be, but they nevertheless form their own opinion of it. Someone else will perceive the piece of art and have their own idea of what it is, differing from others.

Basically, great art is something that doesn't explain itself and forces the perceiver to draw their own conclusions of it. It would be hard to come to an agreement or an explanation of what a particular great work of art is trying to achieve, or set out to do.

Quote:

Art is a kind of innate drive that seizes a human being and makes him its instrument. The artist is not a person endowed with free will who seeks his own ends, but one who allows art to realize its purposes through him.

-C.G. Jung




--------------------

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InvisibleLakefingers
Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,440
Re: Is Language Art? *DELETED* [Re: redgreenvines]
    #21153577 - 01/21/15 01:42 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Post deleted by Lakefingers

Reason for deletion: No reason.

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InvisibleLakefingers
Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,440
Re: Is Language Art? *DELETED* [Re: xFrockx] * 1
    #21153601 - 01/21/15 01:58 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Post deleted by Lakefingers

Reason for deletion: No reason.

Edited by Lakefingers (01/21/15 02:20 AM)

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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Re: Is Language Art? [Re: Lakefingers]
    #21153813 - 01/21/15 04:55 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Lakefingers said:
Quote:

redgreenvines said:
if it is not inspiring
if it does not make you take pause
then it is just stuff. maybe great serviceable stuff, but not art.




There are many works of art people find uninspiring but would still call art and feel obligated to know of or see.

Ever go to an art museum? Other than people entering a building which acts as a pause between checking off other things in the guidebook, there is not much pause happening.

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
art always uplifts the human spirit. even after the artist is gone. even if you don't ever know the artist's name.

the business of art is not art
the teaching of art is not art
nature is not art
school is not art

is the internet art?
I think it is nature.




Even art that is appreciated and purchased is not uplifting.

The business of art can be art. There are artists who turn the processes around their actions into such art. These processes have included business, policy-making, legislation, legal processes, etc.

Every statement you've made in your post is contradicted by examples from the real world. Or perhaps you've become conservative and are promoting a view on art that intends to dismiss large areas of contemporary art.



which is why I say the business of art is not art
it is an investment scam that takes  art and the population hostage.

everything connected to the business of art is suspect.


--------------------
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InvisibleLakefingers
Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,440
Re: Is Language Art? *DELETED* *DELETED* [Re: redgreenvines]
    #21153845 - 01/21/15 05:13 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Post deleted by Lakefingers

Reason for deletion: No reason.

Edited by Lakefingers (01/21/15 05:27 AM)

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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,485
Re: Is Language Art? [Re: Lakefingers]
    #21153860 - 01/21/15 05:27 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

I am not motivated to discuss the matter with people that are already involved in the hostage crisis, they have to get through the mess themselves with whatever shreds of dignity they can muster afterwards.

my comments here relate to "what is art?" as put in the revised OP and as imputed in the prior question about language.

naturally what I offer is my opinion:
"most of what we are enjoying is nature, human nature, and unsatisfactoriness, while some of it is art.
maybe that's enough to redeem us?" - redgreenvines


--------------------
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OfflineGrapefruit
Freak in the forest
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Re: Is Language Art? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21153894 - 01/21/15 05:50 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Art is drawings n stuff.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"

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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ

Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
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Last seen: 4 years, 4 months
Re: Is Language Art? [Re: xFrockx]
    #21154201 - 01/21/15 08:26 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

xFrockx said:
Art is a word. Words are used for communication. A question about what art "really" is represents nothing more than a misunderstanding of language. I call something art, you say it isn't art, vice versa, it doesn't matter, neither of us have any more "direct" a perception of what art is (and there is no such direct perception, if there is please show me).


If I sell you a toilet for $5000 because I called it art and you agreed, then fantastic. It doesn't matter.

If I refuse to go see a Jackson Pollack exhibition because I think it isn't art, then fantastic. It doesn't matter.



I suggest you spend your time on more worthwhile pursuits. Welding is a good one.



now, i was following you up until you said that art wasn't a worthwhile pursuit. you can't tell me what isn't a worthwhile pursuit and at the same time say that no one can tell what art is. maybe art is something more then your average pursuits, and that's why it is what it is, to you. so basically your comment is meaningless: just "go do something else." welding doesn't matter.

Quote:

A great piece of art will cause someone to perceive it, and really have no idea what it might be, but they nevertheless form their own opinion of it. Someone else will perceive the piece of art and have their own idea of what it is, differing from others.

Basically, great art is something that doesn't explain itself and forces the perceiver to draw their own conclusions of it. It would be hard to come to an agreement or an explanation of what a particular great work of art is trying to achieve, or set out to do.




i like this explanation. can words be art?

Quote:

Even art that is appreciated and purchased is not uplifting.

The business of art can be art. There are artists who turn the processes around their actions into such art. These processes have included business, policy-making, legislation, legal processes, etc.

Every statement you've made in your post is contradicted by examples from the real world. Or perhaps you've become conservative and are promoting a view on art that intends to dismiss large areas of contemporary art.




LF, yep. i completely agree. from policy making, organizing, business, ect ect, i find all of them have a process which incorporate actions to form conceptual ideas of the world around us. business, for example, if we weren't utterly convinced that we needed good business, people would STILL nonetheless, be doing business and they'd be doing it because it a: makes them money and b: makes things work in a new way (whether for themselves or for others whom,...) to make things better, will use the concepts in business to make a better outlook on their perspective on the world.

like the aforementioned language... i find, as of yet, that this process creates art.

Edited by akira_akuma (01/21/15 08:34 AM)

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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Is Language Art? [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #21154237 - 01/21/15 08:38 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

i could put up a wall of papers to descry, that states that business is art.

would it be true though? :grin: i dunno. it's two ways of looking at the same idea. should art be a process, or should art be innate? either way, it's still art; the concept is that art should be done either way.

some people like the notion that art is just something you hang on your wall. but it's NOT just the end product that is "art". the process of making art, is also ART. which is why people who don't quite get it, feel like it is so convoluted. well, guess what; it's because you're forgetting the fact that art has been worked on and changed and has been fed into since practically the dawn of Homo erectus. it's a concept of the highest complexity. like philosophy. what do people find and appreciate in the realm of extraordinary human creation and thinking. it's not merely an aesthetic. i'm surprised so many philosophers here actually seem to dislike art.

i think that as much as philosophy bears the fruits of contemplating and understanding the concepts behind certain human faculties and realities, so does art bear the concept, though in an of it self, to explaining and and understanding the concept of philosophy itself.

philosophy is an art, too.

PS: i am listening to this piece of music (explained here http://www.universaledition.com/Georg-Friedrich-Haas/composers-and-works/composer/278/work/12730/work_introduction) that transcends the boundaries of the respective genres, light and music art.

Edited by akira_akuma (01/21/15 09:17 AM)

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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: Is Language Art? [Re: Lakefingers]
    #21154390 - 01/21/15 09:17 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

"Misunderstanding of language, yet language changes and is a human creation referring to events that are in constant change (e.g. the art world).

What is "worthwhile?" Really? Maybe a lobotomy is up your Worthwhile Alley."

Ok, if this persuit of what art "really is" is more than mental masturbation, then solve it for us. Allow me to perceive fully the form of art, so that I might properly use my words to refer to it.

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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Is Language Art? [Re: xFrockx]
    #21154397 - 01/21/15 09:19 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

xFrockx said:
"Misunderstanding of language, yet language changes and is a human creation referring to events that are in constant change (e.g. the art world).

What is "worthwhile?" Really? Maybe a lobotomy is up your Worthwhile Alley."

Ok, if this persuit of what art "really is" is more than mental masturbation, then solve it for us. Allow me to perceive fully the form of art, so that I might properly use my words to refer to it.




lets just fully perceive the form of philosophy first, then we'll do 'your thing'.

at first, i thought these things were just to make us think, but apparently i was wrong. so show us, Frock, the "form" of philosophy.

but here is a form of art.


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: Is Language Art? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21154408 - 01/21/15 09:23 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

There is no "my thing", I am not trying to tempt you into philosophy, if anything you are the one attempting philosophy.

I am merely communicating to you what seems perfectly obvious to me. If it isn't obvious to you, I can explain further. Communication works pretty well that way.

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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Is Language Art? [Re: xFrockx]
    #21154423 - 01/21/15 09:28 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

it isn't obvious. you might like to ascribe to the obviousness of philosophy, but you've been simply pissing in the wind, as it were.

you want to show a "full form of art", and i just did... but can you show a "full form of philosophy"? can you show a full form of anything? not without art, because there is no comprehensive "form" of anything but what the sum of it's pieces are, hence the necessity of art and philosophy.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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