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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Are you an American? What aspects of your country are you unhappy with? [Re: Big Worm]
    #21149439 - 01/20/15 11:55 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Big Worm said:
I would say,

High living costs.

It's difficult for even a single individual to afford a one bedroom apartment, car payment, food, etc. on even $15/hr wages at 40 hours a week.  Which is almost double minimum wage.

Leaving barely anything for savings or recreation.


Wages and Living costs/price of goods doesn't seem to equal out.


It seems like everyone I know is struggling, unless they have a side hustle  :shrug:



I would agree.  High living costs are driven by the free market, as businesses set pricing based on the supply/demand curve.

The question then is how do we as a nation help people at the lower end get by?

My thought is a national minimum wage increase.  Any other ideas?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Are you an American? What aspects of your country are you unhappy with? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21149456 - 01/20/15 11:59 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

In the context of this thread, I think both of you are missing the point.  Having an apartment with indoor plumbing, a car, and food puts a person in the upper 10% of the world as far as standard of living.  The fact that the poor in this country can live like this is something to love about America...not be unhappy about.


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Offlinepsilynut
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Re: Are you an American? What aspects of your country are you unhappy with? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #21149485 - 01/20/15 12:06 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:


I would agree.  High living costs are driven by the free market, as businesses set pricing based on the supply/demand curve.

The question then is how do we as a nation help people at the lower end get by?

My thought is a national minimum wage increase.  Any other ideas?




Labor Unions .

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InvisibleShroom Detective
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Re: Are you an American? What aspects of your country are you unhappy with? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21149537 - 01/20/15 12:18 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Shroom Detective said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
All irrelevant bullshit.




No, actually, it is fact (reality).




Whether your post is "real" or not (:rolleyes:), it's still irrelevant.  I put my signature back, and it changes nothing.







It is highly relevant.  Your ilk were proven to have abused the English language, in order to try to cover your backside, which is typical for liberals, as well as unwise, because the truth always wins; keep crying about it, if you like.


--------------------
"I, Falcon91Wolvrn03, am a BIG FAT LIAR; so much so, that my pants are on fire."

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Are you an American? What aspects of your country are you unhappy with? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21149618 - 01/20/15 12:36 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Big Worm said:
I would say,

High living costs.

It's difficult for even a single individual to afford a one bedroom apartment, car payment, food, etc. on even $15/hr wages at 40 hours a week.  Which is almost double minimum wage.

Leaving barely anything for savings or recreation.


Wages and Living costs/price of goods doesn't seem to equal out.


It seems like everyone I know is struggling, unless they have a side hustle  :shrug:



I would agree.  High living costs are driven by the free market, as businesses set pricing based on the supply/demand curve.




Business cannot "set" prices on a supply demand curve anymore than consumers can.  The complete and utter ignorance of economics exposed by this single sentence is enough to discredit anything you have ever said or will ever say on the subject.
Quote:



The question then is how do we as a nation help people at the lower end get by?




"We as a nation"?  Are you the Borg?  Go ahead and help them.
Quote:



My thought is a national minimum wage increase.  Any other ideas?



Great idea to decrease employment.  The best way to raise wages for low income workers is to eliminate the competition from illegal border jumping scum.  Supply and demand curve.

Big Worm if everybody you know is struggling it either because they are the beginning of their working life or they are total losers.


--------------------

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Are you an American? What aspects of your country are you unhappy with? [Re: Enlil]
    #21149628 - 01/20/15 12:38 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
In the context of this thread, I think both of you are missing the point.  Having an apartment with indoor plumbing, a car, and food puts a person in the upper 10% of the world as far as standard of living.  The fact that the poor in this country can live like this is something to love about America...not be unhappy about.



But other countries do better.  Shouldn't we strive to reestablish ourselves as #1 rather than top 10%?  :shrug:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Are you an American? What aspects of your country are you unhappy with? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21149640 - 01/20/15 12:40 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

No, we should seek to raise the standard for those less fortunate.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Are you an American? What aspects of your country are you unhappy with? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21149685 - 01/20/15 12:52 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
businesses set pricing based on the supply/demand curve.



Business cannot "set" prices on a supply demand curve anymore than consumers can.  The complete and utter ignorance of economics exposed by this single sentence is enough to discredit anything you have ever said or will ever say on the subject.



It's you that doesn't understand business.  Businesses set prices to try and maximize revenue based on a price that provides them the most total profit.  If an individual consumer can't afford it, that's tough, because the business doesn't care as long as their price provides maximum profit.  If a business wants to charge more or less than the price that gives them maximum profit, that's their prerogative.

Sorry zap, you're wrong again.  :shrug:

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
My thought is a national minimum wage increase.  Any other ideas?



Great idea to decrease employment.



And by how much would employment be decreased?  Empirical evidence shows VERY little.

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
The best way to raise wages for low income workers is to eliminate the competition from illegal border jumping scum.  Supply and demand curve.



Why would employers pay workers more than they do today?  Wages are largely unchanged since the 80's, though corporations are now making record profits.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Are you an American? What aspects of your country are you unhappy with? [Re: Enlil]
    #21149690 - 01/20/15 12:54 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Shouldn't we strive to reestablish ourselves as #1 rather than top 10%?  :shrug:



No, we should seek to raise the standard for those less fortunate.



That's exactly what I am proposing.  :shrug:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Are you an American? What aspects of your country are you unhappy with? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21149700 - 01/20/15 12:57 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Americans are the fortunate.  The less fortunate live in undeveloped countries.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Are you an American? What aspects of your country are you unhappy with? [Re: Big Worm]
    #21149736 - 01/20/15 01:08 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
we should seek to raise the standard for those less fortunate.

Americans are the fortunate.  The less fortunate live in undeveloped countries.



What do you say to that Big Worm?  Are you feeling fortunate enough not to complain, even though you and millions of Americans are struggling?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: Are you an American? What aspects of your country are you unhappy with? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21149756 - 01/20/15 01:16 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Businesses set prices to try and maximize revenue based on a price that provides them the most total profit.  If an individual consumer can't afford it, that's tough, because the business doesn't care as long as their price provides maximum profit.  If a business wants to charge more or less than the price that gives them maximum profit, that's their prerogative.



and then the business shuts down because no one is purchasing their product, the demand remains for the market to be filled, new businesses come in that offer competitive pricing, the price drops, and the customer wins.


--------------------
Think for yourself, question authority

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Are you an American? What aspects of your country are you unhappy with? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21149767 - 01/20/15 01:21 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
businesses set pricing based on the supply/demand curve.



Business cannot "set" prices on a supply demand curve anymore than consumers can.  The complete and utter ignorance of economics exposed by this single sentence is enough to discredit anything you have ever said or will ever say on the subject.



It's you that doesn't understand business.  Businesses set prices to try and maximize revenue based on a price that provides them the most total profit.  If an individual consumer can't afford it, that's tough, because the business doesn't care as long as their price provides maximum profit.  If a business wants to charge more or less than the price that gives them maximum profit, that's their prerogative.
Sorry zap, you're wrong again.  :shrug:




You know nothing about business.  I've run a business for over thirty years.  I submit bids.  My competition submits bids.  Sometimes the homeowner will hondle.  Sometimes I won't get the job and never know why.  I have never ever "set" the price
Quote:




Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
My thought is a national minimum wage increase.  Any other ideas?



Great idea to decrease employment.



And by how much would employment be decreased?  Empirical evidence shows VERY little.




Well you can tell those who lose their jobs how much better off they are, then. 
Quote:



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
The best way to raise wages for low income workers is to eliminate the competition from illegal border jumping scum.  Supply and demand curve.



Why would employers pay workers more than they do today?  Wages are largely unchanged since the 80's, though corporations are now making record profits.




If there is a scarcity of labor wages, go up.  Companies compete for workers.  If there is a glut of labor wages go down because workers compete for jobs.  This was driven home quite forcefully in the construction industry around here in the pay difference for various trades in the early 2000s vs the late 2000s.


--------------------

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Are you an American? What aspects of your country are you unhappy with? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21149776 - 01/20/15 01:23 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
we should seek to raise the standard for those less fortunate.

Americans are the fortunate.  The less fortunate live in undeveloped countries.



What do you say to that Big Worm?  Are you feeling fortunate enough not to complain, even though you and millions of Americans are struggling?



Who ever promised them a Rose Garden?  What is wrong with struggling?  How much extra did you add to your taxes last year?


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Are you an American? What aspects of your country are you unhappy with? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21149860 - 01/20/15 01:43 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
You know nothing about business.  I've run a business for over thirty years.  I submit bids.  My competition submits bids.  Sometimes the homeowner will hondle.  Sometimes I won't get the job and never know why.  I have never ever "set" the price



So you don't give a price in your bid?  If a customer says he'll pay you $100 for 10 hours of work, you'll do it?  The fact that you're in a position to negotiate actually gives YOU more power, in that you can alter your original price, if you want to.

You're quibbling about something you know I know a lot about.  For you to say "The complete and utter ignorance of economics exposed by this single sentence is enough to discredit anything you have ever said or will ever say on the subject" and "you know nothing about business" was proven wrong, it shows your inability to argue the facts of the topic, and it violates rule #1 of this forum.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Are you an American? What aspects of your country are you unhappy with? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21149865 - 01/20/15 01:45 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Who ever promised them a Rose Garden?  What is wrong with struggling?



This highlights a major difference between liberal and conservative viewpoints.  :shrug:

What's wrong with making things better?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Are you an American? What aspects of your country are you unhappy with? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21150223 - 01/20/15 02:33 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
The complete and utter ignorance of economics exposed by this single sentence is enough to discredit anything you have ever said or will ever say on the subject.



Saving this for posterity.

Claiming exemption from all past AND future debate losses, because you pretend I didn't understand a point I made, is SO hilarious (and pre-school).  :tongue2:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Are you an American? What aspects of your country are you unhappy with? [Re: psyconaught]
    #21150317 - 01/20/15 02:42 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

psyconaught said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Businesses set prices to try and maximize revenue based on a price that provides them the most total profit.  If an individual consumer can't afford it, that's tough, because the business doesn't care as long as their price provides maximum profit.  If a business wants to charge more or less than the price that gives them maximum profit, that's their prerogative.



and then the business shuts down because no one is purchasing their product, the demand remains for the market to be filled, new businesses come in that offer competitive pricing, the price drops, and the customer wins.



That statement assumes business is a monopoly.  The competition is already there, and the consumers are already getting the best prices (unless the competing businesses understand game theory).


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: Are you an American? What aspects of your country are you unhappy with? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21150545 - 01/20/15 03:04 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

if there is no competition its due to government intervention. Business needs more freedom.


--------------------
Think for yourself, question authority

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Are you an American? What aspects of your country are you unhappy with? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21150622 - 01/20/15 03:15 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
You know nothing about business.  I've run a business for over thirty years.  I submit bids.  My competition submits bids.  Sometimes the homeowner will hondle.  Sometimes I won't get the job and never know why.  I have never ever "set" the price



So you don't give a price in your bid?  If a customer says he'll pay you $100 for 10 hours of work, you'll do it?  The fact that you're in a position to negotiate actually gives YOU more power, in that you can alter your original price, if you want to.

You're quibbling about something you know I know a lot about.  For you to say "The complete and utter ignorance of economics exposed by this single sentence is enough to discredit anything you have ever said or will ever say on the subject" and "you know nothing about business" was proven wrong, it shows your inability to argue the facts of the topic, and it violates rule #1 of this forum.




I am not quibbling.  A business does not "set" the price.  If a competitor comes in lower that is what the price gets "set" at.  Not my price, his.  I "set" nothing.  Your ignorance persists in spite of complete refutation


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