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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Offlineakira_akuma
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What Is Art?
    #21144453 - 01/19/15 02:26 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

discuss, and let this fall to the bottom of the page.

Edited by akira_akuma (01/19/15 02:42 PM)

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InvisibleLakefingers
Registered: 08/26/05
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Re: Is Language Art? *DELETED* [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21144471 - 01/19/15 02:29 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Post deleted by Lakefingers

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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Is Language Art? [Re: Lakefingers]
    #21144520 - 01/19/15 02:36 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

good question. hard to answer. but i think i have a different word for art. in the sense that art is

1.
the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power.
"the art of the Renaissance"
synonyms: fine art, artwork
"he studied art"
works produced by human creative skill and imagination.
"his collection of modern art"
synonyms: fine art, artwork
"he studied art"
creative activity resulting in the production of paintings, drawings, or sculpture.
"she's good at art"
2.
the various branches of creative activity, such as painting, music, literature, and dance.
"the visual arts"
3.
subjects of study primarily concerned with the processes and products of human creativity and social life, such as languages, literature, and history (as contrasted with scientific or technical subjects).
"the belief that the arts and sciences were incompatible"
4.
a skill at doing a specified thing, typically one acquired through practice.

but also as

Arete

1: the aggregate of qualities, as valor and virtue, making up good character.

i consider the excellence of a particular thing to construe and identify the artfulness of it. whether it be by human endeavor or by sheer innateness.

whoa, typos galore. me and my fucking high brain :facepalm:

Edited by akira_akuma (01/19/15 02:46 PM)

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Is Language Art? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21144525 - 01/19/15 02:37 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

what do you mean by language?

poets can be artful with language.
hookers complaining about cops can also be artful with a crude subset of language.

both examples are synthetic creative processes, some of which are interesting or inspiring to revisit (like great art is).

many people in daily life come up with gems, but most people use language to smooth support mundane transactions that are not memorable.

I find good art is eminently reviewable, fun to examine, and a joy to rediscover later.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Is Language Art? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #21144536 - 01/19/15 02:39 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

is language arete?

that is to say, is language an aggregate of good character unto itself? is it worthy of being called art, if it can artful sometimes, and not others? can non-artful language be identified as the "art" of language without it being particularly artful?

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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Is Language Art? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21144561 - 01/19/15 02:44 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

i changed the name of the thread title. i didn't really think about what i was asking too much.

i think this can be a deeper subject, but i wanted to discuss language above all else.

but also, what is art?

i think "the excellence of a particular thing is what construes and identifies the artfulness of it. whether it be by human endeavor or by sheer innateness."

as in; relationships can be art, either by categorization or in terms of human relationships. like sex, can be an art. or dancing can be an art. hunting can be an art. invention can be an art. ect ect

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Is Language Art? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21144991 - 01/19/15 04:03 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
is language arete?

that is to say, is language an aggregate of good character unto itself? is it worthy of being called art, if it can artful sometimes, and not others? can non-artful language be identified as the "art" of language without it being particularly artful?



only in as much as high school art projects in general are considered art in the context of being related to art, though art dealers, and consumers will generally not take it for art.
Unartful artwork abounds, it has no lasting value, is hard to look at more than once. that sort of thing.
some artist never do anything bad (even in high school).
the same goes for the use of language (getting back to the original original post.)
some people speak so nicely that you might consider paying tickets just to listen.

while arete is more about virtue, I think art is more about beauty.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Is Language Art? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #21145010 - 01/19/15 04:06 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

but it isn't an art in and of itself?

i don't see why.

same with art in general. why isn't it art, if no one pays to see it, or no one wants to see it more than once?

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Is Language Art? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21145034 - 01/19/15 04:11 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

it has to be worth seeking out.
you could arbitrarily seek out cottage cheese
but still that does not make it art
it would have to be a unique cottage cheese,
which is possible,
and gastronomic art exists.
and people may come from afar to taste it again.
but the ordinary stuff, is just food, at best refreshing and nourishing. but it does not make you go
"Oh Wow!
We have to tell Albert!"


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Is Language Art? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #21145073 - 01/19/15 04:23 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

the person who made the cottage cheese might think of it as art. so is it art then?

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Is Language Art? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21145687 - 01/19/15 06:28 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

no, it's just a cheese man working up some  marketing.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Is Language Art? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #21145764 - 01/19/15 06:42 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

i don't agree with. unless the cheese is foul, then it's been done right, and hence the art of making cheese was a success.

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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Is Language Art? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21146127 - 01/19/15 07:52 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

i think anything that is created is art. now on a median of good-bad art... i'd say there is obvious difference between arts and art pieces... but that change whether they are art or not.

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Is Language Art? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21146208 - 01/19/15 08:06 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

you are entitled to waver on this
- it eludes the most sophisticated art dealers,
and confounds many magnificent artists
while charlatans keep busy in the confusion,
and even the common man merits art-worthiness too
- at least in the moment (ongoing creation),
which is all there ever is.

anyway, you know it when you see it
and when you see it it can make you so happy you cry.
and if that happens with cheese, man, I want sommadat stuff


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Is Language Art? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #21146246 - 01/19/15 08:11 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

that's the thing. not all art is gonna move someone, but there is always something that WILL, even the staunchest or near destitute of taste. that's why i find art transcends that notion of "fineness".

i call it "the movement toward perfection". and excellence can only be in and of itself, and in and of itself only.

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InvisibleHobozen
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Re: Is Language Art? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21146826 - 01/19/15 09:40 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

i like your new avatar.  it suits you well :lol:

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InvisibleLakefingers
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Re: Is Language Art? *DELETED* [Re: redgreenvines]
    #21147842 - 01/20/15 03:07 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Post deleted by Lakefingers

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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Is Language Art? [Re: Lakefingers] * 1
    #21148445 - 01/20/15 08:35 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

i'd say that art doesn't have to be a thing, but it can be an act; doing things for aesthetic purposes sounds about right.

and i'd say the final postulation pretty nails why i find art so subjective and so hard to define, flat out... because i do thing that most anything can "lapse" into art (sometimes not even of it's own volition) and that's because something/anything can become art if it garners a viewpoint or perspective that makes one think/takes on out of the metaphorical "box".

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Is Language Art? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21148851 - 01/20/15 10:12 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Is nature art?
Is being art?
If a play on stage is art what about fighters in a ring?
Improvised music may be art or just performance for spectators
Making sheet music into art is different than arpeggios, but both could be art in some contexts.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Is Language Art? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #21149308 - 01/20/15 11:28 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

yeah, i agree. i mean, look, nature isn't "art". that's the one exception i'll make there. but things in nature, like biology, and the study of it, attain KNOWLEDGE... being? i don't know about all being, but ATTAINING KNOWLEDGE of being? why not? i think that's art. there is an art to being... and an art to nature... maybe being is the art to nature?

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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