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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Rye Soak Water Liquid Culture! [Re: hamloaf]
    #21146152 - 01/19/15 07:56 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Shit man just add agar to your grain water. I don't even dilute as I like dark agar, less food color is needed with the grain water agar. Been using it for years, was the third recipe I tried, before I even made my shroomery acct. Is my favorite for inoculation as it really jumps off the wedge.

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Re: Rye Soak Water Liquid Culture! [Re: hamloaf]
    #21146337 - 01/19/15 08:28 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

^^^ Exactly.  Just add agar-agar to your grain boil water!  My preference is grass seed or brown rice.

If you want to make it from recipe (like the typical 500mL recipe for instance) take 11-12 grams of fine brown rice flour to 550mL and boil it up.  Let the sediment settle for about 10-20 minutes, pour off everything but the sediment, and use as you like!


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Re: Rye Soak Water Liquid Culture! [Re: Violet]
    #21148036 - 01/20/15 05:31 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Is my favorite for inoculation as it really jumps off the wedge.



There is a DEFINITE correlation between the using of the grains intended to use as grain spawn's end of the boil-cycle water, and speed of recovery of culture when inoculated to grains going on here with the GWLC. 

Been doing LC's for 5 years, and have NEVER seen such exponential recovery of liquid mycelium until using this end of the boil-cycle grain water as liquid culturing medium. 

I think using the end of the grain boil-cycle's water gets the culture used to the substrate.  Also think that the more nutrition you use in the culturing media (agar, LC), at the cost of slightly slower colonization, the more insatiable the appetite of the mycelium will be once it hits the grains, because the myce will be used to having more food than the myce would ever need, and goes crazy once it hit's the grain trying to find the amount of food the myce is used to consuming in order to satisfy the myce's hunger.

It's looking like the end of the cycle grain boil water WILL replace LME as the main culturing media of choice, which is GREAT!  Means no more money, effort, or time spent on gathering culturing media ingredients.  Gonna make the next master culture slants using the grain boil water culturing technique.  Can't wait to try that. 

^^ That's 3 MAJOR advantages of using the end of the cycle grain boil water over conventional culturing media recipes.  SOLD!  "End Of The Boil-Cycle Grain Water Culturing Technique" <--- New thread idea.  Patenting here. 

Quote:

Violet said:
^^^ Exactly.  Just add agar-agar to your grain boil water!  My preference is grass seed or brown rice.




Cool.  When just using the grain water, how much agar do you guys use per how many ml's of water?  Is the addition of agar taking place here at the standard average 10 grams per 500ml's of grain water?  Thanks.

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Re: Rye Soak Water Liquid Culture! [Re: hamloaf]
    #21148323 - 01/20/15 07:58 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

I'm using my grain water with agar agar along with a few other ingredients for my culture dishes to mimic future nutrition level the mycelium will receive. :thumbup:

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Re: Rye Soak Water Liquid Culture! [Re: blackdust]
    #21148343 - 01/20/15 08:06 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

I think a big reason why the myc can recover so quick is it has extra stored energy built up from the excellent nutrition.  I know the rule is supposed to be less nutes in culture=aggressive growth on grains but it has never worked like that for me. So I just started to play with what actually worked and I go with it. I am now done with sugar LC and will never recommend them to anyone. So many drawbacks, and the upside is non existent for me.

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Re: Rye Soak Water Liquid Culture! [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21148474 - 01/20/15 08:44 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Yes, all of that.
It hasn't worked like "lower nutrition, faster growth" for me per se either.
My poms recipe (btw Pasty which I have corrected in the poms thread) is 12g rice flour per 125mL water, a proportion that equals out to almost 50g of grain nutrition per 500mL.  It makes for a SUPER thick and nutritious media but colonization certainly doesn't crawl to say the least.
I typically do not prepare the recipe as such since I use the thick settled grainwater from prep:

... in the middle of the last photo.

I THINK so far, indicated by my experiments of how much nutrition is lost to grain prep water, that the thick sediment may be about 5g per 100mL. If that's the case then 500mL of that stuff has like 20g worth of rice matter, still far higher than the typical agar prep although less than half of the by-the-recipe pom sub preparation, and colonization speed is no different.


Conversely, my grainwater agar for dishes (the 'opaque' liquid, right in last photo) apparently has LESS grain nutrition per solution than a by-the-recipe PDA or MEA prep.
Although concentration varies, my recent tests have been like 2.1g per 300mL which is ~7g to 500mL - at the most.  Colonization times are little different, though - I enjoy as fast of colonization as anyone could hope for otherwise.


Quote:

hamloaf said:
Quote:

Violet said:
^^^ Exactly.  Just add agar-agar to your grain boil water!  My preference is grass seed or brown rice.




Cool.  When just using the grain water, how much agar do you guys use per how many ml's of water?  Is the addition of agar taking place here at the standard average 10 grams per 500ml's of grain water?  Thanks.



That's right!  10g per 500mL. I just make individual plates at .5g per 25mL.



For no-pour plates only, I intend to experiment with using a rice flour agar prep thick with starchy rice flour so that it requires less agar-agar to be sufficiently gelled.
As said above, my pom agsr slush sub recipe is 12g flour per 125 (~50g per 500mL) with a mere .33g agar-agar!  That makes the agar VERY soft, but plenty gelled for growth on top since the rice makes the mixture thick and viscous when cooled.
I'm thinking that a more rice-y recipe might gel sufficiently for normal no-pour agar work with perhaps just 2/3 the agar-agar as the typical prep, but it's just a thought.  I haven't explored it much, but might in the coming week before I get caught up in other life stuff.

Presuming that growth should still be just fine on it, using much more rice to trim the agar-agar could make our precious agar last longer.
Brown rice is cheap, like 1¢ for 7g.
Agar is much more expensive, like 16¢ for 1g.  That's 112 times as expensive per weight.
If 500mL using 10g agar-agar and 11-12g of rice (for culturing dishes) costs 1.5¢ in rice and $1.60 in agar-agar, then using 70g rice and 6.7g agar-agar would cost 10¢ rice and just $1 agar-agar!
So if it works the same as firm agar in other recipes (yet to be confirmed), using 7x the rice and 2/3 the agar-agar can cut our expenses significantly..

Who wants to have a go at trying that with me?


--------------------
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The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
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Edited by Violet (01/21/15 08:30 AM)

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Invisibleshroominmyroom
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Re: Rye Soak Water Liquid Culture! [Re: Violet]
    #21148531 - 01/20/15 09:00 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

:flyhigh:

Edited by shroominmyroom (12/05/17 12:36 PM)

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Re: Rye Soak Water Liquid Culture! [Re: shroominmyroom]
    #21148601 - 01/20/15 09:22 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

I'm thinking about trying this with WBS water right now it has been soaking since last night it started off clear now it's pretty dark like strong tea or weak coffee and I have not done the boil yet Should I maybe do 2 jars and dilute 1 and leave the other the same? I will post pics of what I end up with after the boil.


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Re: Rye Soak Water Liquid Culture! [Re: r00tuuu123]
    #21148687 - 01/20/15 09:37 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Yes.  Do one jar non diluted, and dilute the other for 2 purposes. 

-Purpose 1, In case the non diluted medium is too murky, you have a less murky back up media to work with. 

-Purpose 2, to observe the difference between a non diluted, and diluted WBS GWLC culturing media. 

I am sheduled to run some WBS next week too, because I am currently out of Red Milo, and have a bag of WBS lying around.  Am also planning on/going to make some GWLC out of the WBS.  Cool.

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Re: Rye Soak Water Liquid Culture! [Re: hamloaf]
    #21148815 - 01/20/15 09:57 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

hamloaf said:
Yes.  Do one jar non diluted, and dilute the other for 2 purposes. 

-Purpose 1, In case the non diluted medium is too murky, you have a less murky back up media to work with. 

-Purpose 2, to observe the difference between a non diluted, and diluted WBS GWLC culturing media. 

I am sheduled to run some WBS next week too, because I am currently out of Red Milo, and have a bag of WBS lying around.  Am also planning on/going to make some GWLC out of the WBS.  Cool.



I did add about a half pint of clean water before the boil cause it was so dark. But I will dilute one and post pics of both aftr they cool right now they look like coffee and cream. My grains look right and feel right, not any noticable burst seeds. As for now I have 2 qt jars half filled with straight boil water. I plan on diluting one till it is somewhat clear.


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Re: Rye Soak Water Liquid Culture! [Re: r00tuuu123]
    #21149097 - 01/20/15 10:57 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

I have diluted up to 4 parts water 1 part gw. Don't go further than that. Don't worry about ut being dark or having sediment,  It will lighten and clear as the culture grows.

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Re: Rye Soak Water Liquid Culture! [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21149238 - 01/20/15 11:13 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Don't worry about ut being dark or having sediment



While I agree this, how dark one likes their medium to begin with is is going to be up to the individual cultivator to decide.  Dilution ratio's should be researched with by the individual cultivator in order for the decision on which level of dilution, if any, is going to be preferred to be applied by said individual cultivator.


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Re: Rye Soak Water Liquid Culture! [Re: hamloaf]
    #21149728 - 01/20/15 01:06 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Well as I said the jars have cooled and I diluted jar 2 by about 50%. not sure if the sediments are clear in the pics but jar 2 the one that is diluted is approximately 1/2 the sediment of the jar with straight boil water.



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Re: Rye Soak Water Liquid Culture! [Re: r00tuuu123]
    #21149768 - 01/20/15 01:21 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

I should have worded my post better to say that in my experience not diluting won't hurt and that I prefer not to dilute more than 1:4 :smile:

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Re: Rye Soak Water Liquid Culture! [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21149855 - 01/20/15 01:42 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

So you're saying I should dilute it even more?:shrug:


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Re: Rye Soak Water Liquid Culture! [Re: r00tuuu123]
    #21149876 - 01/20/15 01:48 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

I'm saying that it doesn't matter as long as its not too dilute. Some people prefer to be able to see through the media better so for those I have tested how far dilution can be pushed before performance drops off. I have come to a max dilution of 1:4 before it stops behaving the way I like.  But I have used half and half many times and liked how it did.

My posts there were less directed at you persay and more to just outline my experiencs with full strength vs degrees of dilution. Please disregard as it sounds like your doing fine :thumbup:

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Re: Rye Soak Water Liquid Culture! [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21149932 - 01/20/15 02:00 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

My most recent LCs I went GWLC like I said I would. I used wheat as my grain
Here's the most diluted LC that's been going for under two weeks

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Re: Rye Soak Water Liquid Culture! [Re: r00tuuu123]
    #21151050 - 01/20/15 04:47 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

r00tuuu123 said:
Well as I said the jars have cooled and I diluted jar 2 by about 50%. not sure if the sediments are clear in the pics but jar 2 the one that is diluted is approximately 1/2 the sediment of the jar with straight boil water.





WOW!  That's pretty murky.  How long ago did you inoculate that media, and what did you inoculate the media with??

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Re: Rye Soak Water Liquid Culture! [Re: hamloaf]
    #21151214 - 01/20/15 05:28 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

That's just after the boil just wbs tea so to speak. The jars are in the pc right now about 15 minutes left then have to let them cool. Will probably noc them in the am. :wink: Hopefully this will work as I am doing it old school with a marble in the jar and not an electric stirrer.


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Re: Rye Soak Water Liquid Culture! [Re: r00tuuu123]
    #21151227 - 01/20/15 05:31 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

:flyhigh:

Edited by shroominmyroom (12/05/17 12:37 PM)

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