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Invisiblemedicinebag
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Showing proper respect when approaching a powerplant.
    #2114535 - 11/17/03 04:41 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

IMHO>

The number one reason I can find why people never get anything from their trips of TRUE value, is because they are not showing the proper respect. If someone is tripping for real reasons like knowledge or healing then they will produce results. If someone is tripping for pleasure, sex or to be able to drink longer, then nothing seen will be of any value do to the disrespect shown. I have not been at this forum long, a day or so. The few posts I have read disgusted me. EDIT: "in the sense that disrespect was shown. I could care less what people do. THis is a suggestion only. I am not condeming anyone for their actions. I have been guilty of the same thing. Until I showed the respect due Nothing special happened EDIT": Abeit, some were in OTD. Like one guys post had to do with how he took mescaline at a rave then took 3 chicks home for an orgy. And the name of the thread was "how much have you eaten". This is exactly what I'm talking about. Raving will get you knowhere. Sex on enthogens will only make you have a better orgasm you will not have a vision of truth. But to truly meet with a powerplant's personality you must show the utmost respect. This includes fasting the day the powerplant is ingested. A minimal diet of natural substances. Praying to the powerplant for truth and knowledge. If the powerplant is shown the utmost respect a vision of truth will be given. Treat the powerplant like you would treat your grandmother. Not like you would treat a whore.

Medicinebag

EDIT:

Just so there is no confusion for current/new readers, I do not have anything against raving, or partying or dancing or anything like that. This is a suggestion if one is willing to respect the spirit the spirit will contact you. That spirit is not the mushroom or psilocybin. Psilocybin is the vehicle that lauches you to where the spirit is. Not all the crap Swami has stated when he cuts up my quotes to prove his point. Which I think is that He doesn't believe in spirits or anything supernatural. So be it. That is his decision. I have asked him repeatedly not to change my words around to prove some psudo-clever remark. I hope that his remarks havn't ruined this thread. Peace.


Edited by medicinebag (11/18/03 05:45 PM)


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: Showing proper respect when approaching a powerplant. [Re: medicinebag]
    #2114738 - 11/17/03 05:29 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

take them not to get high, but to transcend (sp?)


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.


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Offlinedomite
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Re: Showing proper respect when approaching a powerplant. [Re: kaiowas]
    #2118151 - 11/17/03 10:10 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

"Like one guys post had to do with how he took mescaline at a rave then took 3 chicks home for an orgy."

Sex? wow, that is disgusting! Obviously having a "vision of truth" has not stopped you from being petty enough to post a condesending message on the internet. If you take shrooms to get high, you take shrooms to get high. If you have some kind of spritual belief regaurding drugs, then its much more likley that thats what you will get out of the experience. Why do you care how other people use drugs? Obviously they are happy with their (most likley fabricated) life of orgies and raves....


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Anonymous

Re: Showing proper respect when approaching a powerplant. [Re: medicinebag]
    #2118337 - 11/17/03 11:01 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

"Showing proper respect when approaching a powerplant... Praying to the powerplant for truth and knowledge. If the powerplant is shown the upmost respect a vision of truth will be given."


*bows in display of immeasurable reverence...*



:grin:


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OfflineNoviseer
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Re: Showing proper respect when approaching a powerplant. [Re: medicinebag]
    #2118400 - 11/17/03 11:19 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

medicinebag said:
IMHO>

    Raving will get you knowhere.  Sex on enthogens will only make you have a better orgasm you will not have a vision of truth. 




Although I agree with everything else, I have to say that I've had valuable experiences doing both those activities :grin:  Maybe not on the level of 5 dried grams in silent darkness while doing yoga meditating and focusing my chi into a healing psy ball :eek: :tongue2:... but i've had wonderful, memorable, life changing experiences.  I've only felt truly free dancing alone, and at a rave.  And according to some people, dancing is what we're meant to do.  And making love on mushrooms, for me, was hardly about achieving a better orgasm (yes, it was wonderful, but for pure physical pleasure, marijuana is better, imho.)  boundary dissolution on a physical, spititual, and mental level occurs with love making and entheogens.  cmon its great!



--------------------
_______________________________________________________________
namaste said:
no flamz in da ODD, if you got nothing to contribute then keep yo lips zipped
_________________________________________________________________


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Invisiblechunder
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Re: Showing proper respect when approaching a powerplant. [Re: ]
    #2118404 - 11/17/03 11:20 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

:lol: :lol: 


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Showing proper respect when approaching a powerplant. [Re: medicinebag]
    #2118451 - 11/17/03 11:39 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Praying to the powerplant for truth and knowledge.
Why? It is not the "spirit" of the plant, but a chemical affecting your brain. Maria Sabina could tell NO difference in synthetic psilocybin from a formerly live fungus.

If the powerplant is shown the upmost respect a vision of truth will be given.
One's trip will be no different if you spit on and curse the fungus and then crush them under your heel first. (This has been demonstrated in a "Swami Double-Blind Mushroom Respect Test").

Treat the powerplant like you would treat your grandmother.
Play tricks on her cuz she has Alzheimer's and it is fun to confuse her?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: Showing proper respect when approaching a powerplant. [Re: Swami]
    #2118455 - 11/17/03 11:41 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

i think he's just talking about having the right outlook towards the whole experience...


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Showing proper respect when approaching a powerplant. [Re: ]
    #2118465 - 11/17/03 11:47 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

i think he's just talking about having the right outlook towards the whole experience...

Then why not say so? I do not have to fast, meditate on my intentions, make offerenings to the four compass points and sprinkle tobacco when I visit my dear old granny...


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: Showing proper respect when approaching a powerplant. [Re: Swami]
    #2118485 - 11/17/03 11:54 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

haha. well i think it's important to have the right mental set when you're getting ready for a trip, and i do think that people who take their tripping seriously have a more constructive experience than those who just trip for kicks.

IMO though, what happens after the trip is really more important than what happens before it. any 'insights' and whatnot that one may experience while bemushroomed are pretty useless if they're not integrated in some way into a persons life afterwards.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Showing proper respect when approaching a powerplant. [Re: ]
    #2118528 - 11/18/03 12:18 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

True 'nuff.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Showing proper respect when approaching a powerplant. [Re: medicinebag]
    #2118540 - 11/18/03 12:22 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Not like you would treat a whore.

All people are children of God and each deserves love and understanding. A person who judges another by their vocation has yet to learn any real spiritual truth.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinewrestler_az
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Re: Showing proper respect when approaching a powerplant. [Re: Swami]
    #2119042 - 11/18/03 05:42 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

swami....you are awsome! you have such a way with words, that not only make a valid point, but lace it with scarcastic humor as well...i love it


anyway, sometimes i like to trip just for the hell of it, just to check out all the cool visuals, awsome body buzz, and chill with my friends....is that so wrong? must i enter every trip looking for deep insight? i mean, i do enjoy this aspect of tripping, but sometimes its just too much...



--------------------
how's your WOW?





  Edited by yageman (04/20/06 4:20 PM) 


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Invisiblemedicinebag
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Re: Showing proper respect when approaching a powerplant. [Re: wrestler_az]
    #2119183 - 11/18/03 09:26 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Swami,

When Maria Sabina took the pills from Wassons hands. She treated those pills as if they were the mushroom. She passed them through Copal smoke cleanse them. Then she prayed to them and the saints as if she was praying to the mushroom. That argument doesn't fly with me. She treated those pills exactly like she treated the mushroom. WITH THE UTMOST RESPECT> later.

Medicinebag


Edited by medicinebag (11/18/03 03:15 PM)


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Invisiblemedicinebag
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Re: Showing proper respect when approaching a powerplant. [Re: medicinebag]
    #2119285 - 11/18/03 10:28 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Domite,

I am not being condascending. I am stating that if the medicine is treated with the upmost respect then the experience changes from just simple euphoria, colors dancing by and geometric shapes, to a true experience in cosmic conscousness. Apparently, sex on enthogens is why some take them. Too bad, they will never see anything of true value while having sex and tripping. You will only dwell in the lower levels or reality and never transend to the upper attainable levels of reality. If you don't believe me read the Book of the Dead. The Tibetans have been asked many times by Master Trippers about what they have seen. They said, "that most only dwell in the lower levels of reality or Bardo. but one can go much father than that, but only after they have died." I have died many times. While taking the medicine. I didn't approach death and then back out and it not happen. No I left my body, turned around and saw it behind me and that is when the magic really happens.

Medicinebag


Edited by medicinebag (11/18/03 10:51 AM)


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Invisiblemedicinebag
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Re: Showing proper respect when approaching a powerplant. [Re: medicinebag]
    #2119295 - 11/18/03 10:34 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Swami,

When you conducted your disrespectful double blind test, what kind of experiences did those that participated have? I bet the experiences were not different then the experiences that they had tripping any other time. WHY> Because they never showed the medicine the respect in the first place. And for you to call the medicine out like that makes me believe that those that did show "respect", or at least their version of it, had the same exact experiences as if they had not shown respect. Is this correct. So you think because of your "test" that that proves it. Well the medicine cann't be played with like that. It is the same as the devil trying to temp jesus to use his powers to make bread appear when he was starving in the desert. YOU CAN'T TEMP THE MEDICINE. like that. No more than you can temp me to appear in your living room.

Medicinebag


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Invisiblemedicinebag
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Re: Showing proper respect when approaching a powerplant. [Re: medicinebag]
    #2119308 - 11/18/03 10:44 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Noviseer,

When I meant Raves I meant Parties. Not dancing. Yes, dancing is a way to free yourself. I am refering to a place where people get drunk and take allot of different drugs, not medicine. A rave is not a cerimony in the sense that I describe a cerimony. A rave is made up of allot of people with different intentions. They did not all go their for enlightenment. Some just to party. And at the rave there is not just one powerplant being ingested. a multitude. So it is not a cerimony in the sense that all that participate are there for a common goal. Before I offend anymore Ravers Ill stop there. Nothing against dancing. I was refering to Partying. Later. Peace.


Medicinebag


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Invisiblemedicinebag
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Re: Showing proper respect when approaching a powerplant. [Re: medicinebag]
    #2119332 - 11/18/03 10:57 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks Mushmaster and Kaiowas,

Its good to know some respect power.

I appologize Swami. But, I don't like playing the game where you right down what I or anyone else for that matter, says in BOLD> then you put down your two cents under that. Is that your goal to debunk anything you can't put in a test tube? I am sorry. The medicine can be made synthetically but the power inside the medicine can not be made to appear at your whim. Good day.

Medicinebag


Edited by medicinebag (11/18/03 10:59 AM)


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Invisiblemedicinebag
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Re: Showing proper respect when approaching a powerplant. [Re: medicinebag]
    #2119339 - 11/18/03 11:01 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Swami,

I hope that you were being sarcastic when refering to your own grandmother. If not. That is sad.


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Invisiblemedicinebag
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Re: Showing proper respect when approaching a powerplant. [Re: medicinebag]
    #2119344 - 11/18/03 11:03 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Also Swami,

When I refer to a Whore, I meant the way a person treats a whore. not the whore her/himself. Yes that person is a person. But what I was saying is the way some treat the medicine. LIKE A WHORE> Showing disrespect like someone shows a whore when slapping them in the face.


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Invisiblemedicinebag
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Re: Showing proper respect when approaching a powerplant. [Re: medicinebag]
    #2119354 - 11/18/03 11:09 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)



Does anyone else on this site feel as I do?




Edited by medicinebag (11/18/03 11:14 AM)


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Invisiblemedicinebag
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Re: Showing proper respect when approaching a powerplant. [Re: medicinebag]
    #2119363 - 11/18/03 11:13 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

One last thing.

Swami,

Yes. Psilocybin can be made sythetically. But its not the chemical psilocybin that i am refering to when I talk about the medicine. The medicine is a spirit, a force that is most intelligent. The spirit of the mushroom does exist. Psilocybin is the vehicle that lauches one to the place where the spirit lives. Psilocybin is not the spirit of the mushroom. Psilocybin is the train that takes me to where the spirit lives.


Medicinebag


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InvisibleJellric
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Re: Showing proper respect when approaching a powerplant. [Re: Swami]
    #2119379 - 11/18/03 11:20 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

From Swami Spirituality Class thread:

Quote:

By offering this class.. I will focus soley on this and refrain from starting or entering threads about non-relevant topics.





Boy, that didn't last long did it?


--------------------
I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Showing proper respect when approaching a powerplant. [Re: Jellric]
    #2119407 - 11/18/03 11:46 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Not enough people were interested in real change, so I will not continue the class. Seems that for some, change comes from watching the Matrix and discussing aliens.

So I am back to my role as Heyoka.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Showing proper respect when approaching a powerplant. [Re: medicinebag]
    #2119411 - 11/18/03 11:51 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I appologize Swami.
No you don't. Seems the "medicine" has not taught you honesty.

But, I don't like playing the game where you right down what I or anyone else for that matter, says in BOLD> then you put down your two cents under that.
I do that for clarity so that one knows EXACTLY what line I am responding to.

Is that your goal to debunk anything you can't put in a test tube?
Do a search for "Swami" and "test tube". You will not come up with a single match; except for a response like this. Does the "medicine" make you see things that aren't there or are you frequently dishonest by putting words in another's mouth?

I am sorry.
Nope.




--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Showing proper respect when approaching a powerplant. [Re: medicinebag]
    #2119414 - 11/18/03 11:53 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

When I refer to a Whore, I meant the way a person treats a whore. not the whore her/himself.

A person? Meaning yourself? I treat whores like human beings even while spanking them.





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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Showing proper respect when approaching a powerplant. [Re: medicinebag]
    #2119416 - 11/18/03 11:56 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Yes. Psilocybin can be made sythetically. But its not the chemical psilocybin that i am refering to when I talk about the medicine. The medicine is a spirit, a force that is most intelligent.
So you are saying that scientists can synthetically create an intelligent spirit in the laboratory? Very cool! Nobel Prize time.

The spirit of the mushroom does exist.
Even if it does not, nor ever has, come from a living entitiy? That makes no sense.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Showing proper respect when approaching a powerplant. [Re: medicinebag]
    #2119436 - 11/18/03 12:13 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

You sure do ride a high horse... be careful, you have a long way to fall.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Showing proper respect when approaching a powerplant. [Re: medicinebag]
    #2119603 - 11/18/03 01:43 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Some people view raving and dancing for long periods of time as a spiritual endeavor.

I've experienced supreme and wonderous joy while taking psychedelics for fun. You've taken psychedelics expecting a spiritual experience, and you got one. Does that make you a better person than those who take them expecting fun? I don't see how it does.

Some people don't believe in such things as spirits. Some people think that such experiences are products of brain chemistry. Some people think that those people are lesser men than they are for thinking this way. They think that a somber spiritual tone makes you a better person.

There are non-believers who are extremely kind and generous people.
There are believers who are condescending and selfish.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Showing proper respect when approaching a powerplant. [Re: Phluck]
    #2119662 - 11/18/03 02:03 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I've experienced supreme and wonderous joy while taking psychedelics for fun.

Sorry, that is NOT allowed. Did you not read MB's post? The mushroom hates fun and sex and dancing and music. The mushroom only likes solemnity and silence.

Please smudge yourself and say three Maria Sabina's while begging for forgiveness.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisiblemedicinebag
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Re: Showing proper respect when approaching a powerplant. [Re: Swami]
    #2119952 - 11/18/03 03:30 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Evolving,
No I am no better than anyone else. I do not feel I am riding any horse. I am stating that if you want the experience of tripping psilocybin to become a new and totally different experience try approaching him with the utmost respect. If that is hard to define, then think of the experiences you have had. Have they been almost all the same but just different intensities? I don't know about you but I prefer a trip of value instead of a feeling of euphoria. Don't get me wrong. I love euphoria as well. I smoke Ganga daily. I still feal euphoria when I show respect. That euphoria is greater than the euphoria of having an orgasm while tripping. I have felt both so I do no the difference. Not that I haven't done the exact same thing once. I use to only think of the mushroom as a drug. Then one day I started questioning weather or not it was just a drug or a power to be respected. It is a power.

Phluck,

I was a non-believer, too. Then I tried a new approach. To treat the mushroom just like it was treated by those that first discovered how to commune with him in this "new world". I realize that mushrooms are in the old world as well> Well not the strain I am talking about. I don't know if those other psilocybin strains will take you to the same spirit. But I suppose they will, since the psilocybin pills did it for Maria. However, those pills were made from mushrooms she had already been familiar with. Not a different strain. When I first started tripping It was all about ME. Now I trip to help people. And they are fixed from it. One kid, hooked on crank(meth) since he was 12 or so. After a few sessions, he now want to pursue a goal to skate. Before, he only wanted to tweak. Now he has a life. I did not do this the medicine did. We removed his desire for METH. Because meth is a drug not a medicine. Gange is not a drug it is a medicine. A drug harms a medicine cures. That is the difference. There are countless ways the medicine can fix people. You do not have to take my suggestions. Psilocybin by itself is a powerful medicine. But, the spirit of the mushroom is cognitive and will answer questions if you don't know them.




When I smoke my homegrown I treat those plants with the upmost respect aswell. And pray to Shiva the same way its been done for thousands of years on the river Ganges. And when I smoke it feels different then if I just smoke some dope for the hell of it. When I smoke Ganga and treat the plant and the spirit that is of that plant with respect It feels like a whole different experience instead of just being stoned. And I know the difference. I have been smoking pot since I was a kid. I believe in time I will be able to commune with the cannabis spirit as well. In the same fashion as the mushroom spirit.

Here you go again, Swami, putting down what I say in bold and then changing the context. You don't do it to clarify you do it as a joke. And when you do it you try to cut the quote up to prove your point and leave out the rest. Yes. I said that psilocybin can be made sythetically. No I did not say that scientist can create a spirit that is older than man. And yes that synthetic psilocybin can launch you to the spirit. The chemical is a vehicle or a way to leave your body and go to the place where the spirit lives. Not what you have suggested.

No I have not ever treated a prostitue in anyfashion. Sex is not the driving force in my life. I have had all the kinkiest sex I will ever need to sustain me forever. When I use the word Whore it should be already understood, as not a prostitute's vocation but a whore, a worthless thing to be used then thrown away. I think you should know the difference, but you prefer to argue over grammar rather than the points. The point is that when a plant of power or even a synthetic analog, is approached for knowledge not pleasure with a respectful mannar then the experience is totally different than just taking a "drug" for kicks. The chemical is not the spirit. The chemical is a medicine in its own write. The chemical can take you to where the spirit is. And then the trip is a totally different trip. Not like some drug, but like an awakening. THe chemical can be used as medicine without the spirit. The spirit can show you things and do things the chemical can not. And to meet the spirit, respect has to be shown. That is my point. Not the words you have placed down. Apparently, I have offended you by suggestion that sex while tripping should be abstained from. Not sex peroid. We can post our arguments until the end of days, but I see that you will not budge on your view points. So I will not try to convince "you" of anything. I am not here for you swami, so I will try to find a few like minds and just PM them. LATER>

Medicinebag



Edited by medicinebag (11/18/03 03:41 PM)


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Showing proper respect when approaching a powerplant. [Re: medicinebag]
    #2120027 - 11/18/03 03:51 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

No I have not ever treated a prostitue in anyfashion.
Then why did you bring it up?

Sex is not the driving force in my life. I have had all the kinkiest sex I will ever need to sustain me forever.
>put your own comment in here<

When I use the word Whore it should be already understood, as not a prostitute's vocation but a whore, a worthless thing to be used then thrown away.
(Show of hands) How many here took it that way? I don't see anything as useless; all things have their place and purpose. Any spiritually advanced being knows that!

The chemical is a medicine in its own write. The chemical can take you to where the spirit is.
Albuquerque?

And then the trip is a totally different trip. Not like some drug, but like an awakening.
When is a drug not like a drug? Gee, I love Zen koans.

Apparently, I have offended you by suggestion that sex while tripping should be abstained from.
Only an ego can be offended.

I am not here for you swami, so I will try to find a few like minds and just PM them.
You put down the entire shroomery in your first line. I am protective of my brethren here.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisiblemedicinebag
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Re: Showing proper respect when approaching a powerplant. [Re: Swami]
    #2120068 - 11/18/03 04:02 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Why did you only quote those few words of mine? None of your arguments are serious they are jokes. You cut up my quotes and make a joke not a counter-argument a joke. Later


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InvisibleXibalba
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Re: Showing proper respect when approaching a powerplant. [Re: medicinebag]
    #2120118 - 11/18/03 04:19 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)



Edited by Xibalba (09/30/05 01:22 AM)


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Invisiblemedicinebag
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Re: Showing proper respect when approaching a powerplant. [Re: medicinebag]
    #2120128 - 11/18/03 04:23 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Swami,

Why are you busting my balls so much about believing in spirits. Shroomism believes in Aliens. OR at least thats the gist I got from quick reading a post of his/hers. I didn't see you going over to Shroomisms thread and busting his balls about his beliefs. Maybe, thats becasue he is a Mod. I would appreciate if you would not mock my religious beliefs with your jokes. Have a nice life. thank you very much.

Medicinebag


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Showing proper respect when approaching a powerplant. [Re: medicinebag]
    #2120179 - 11/18/03 04:40 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Think again.. he's been busting my balls about it for 4 years.  :grin:
I'm just used to it and I guess he got tired of it :shrug:
Probably because you're fresh meat
LOL 


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Invisiblemedicinebag
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Re: Showing proper respect when approaching a powerplant. [Re: Shroomism]
    #2120294 - 11/18/03 05:25 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I promise you, Swami, If you don't reply to any of my threads I won't reply to any of yours. I would prefer my threads not to be "crapped" up by someone who apparently doesn't like me on a personal level. Thanks for the welcomme, Bro. Later.


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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: Showing proper respect when approaching a powerplant. [Re: Shroomism]
    #2120337 - 11/18/03 05:44 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Not enough people were interested in real change, so I will not continue the class. Seems that for some, change comes from watching the Matrix and discussing aliens.

So I am back to my role as Heyoka.





awwww, thats really too bad, SWAMI. seriously, I was interested in what you had to say, though the first couple excercises were a little patronizing.

As for the arguements going on in this thread (and all the others for that matter) I think it would make true commincation a lot easier if the cominicatee made some effort to get inside the frame of reference of the communicator.

When medicinebag said "treat it like a whore" I understood exactly what he was saying, though I do not treat whores in the fashion he was refering to ("to be used and thrown away"). But I acknowledge that from certain frames of reference, thats what being treated like a whore means, and was able to understand what he was saying. Sometimes logicians read far too little into things. I guess its being a bit of an empath that gives me the ability to see through the eyes of someone who is trying to tell me something.

Shitty communication does not imply wrongness in the principles underlying that communication. We are all poor communicators, because language is a shitty way to communicate.

So just chill. The basic Idea that medicinebag was trying to express was that attitude towards psychedlics in the mind of the user influences their effects on that user. Apparently medicinebag doesn't think that proper attitude can be maintained while dancing at a rave or having sex on psychedelics. I disagree with that, but I don't disagree with the statement that one must approach psychedelics with a proper attitude if one is to benefit from them fully. Furthermore, I forgive medicinebag for his false conclusions, because the data is very skewed (meaning most people who go to raves or have sex trippin probably don't have the right attitude about psychedlics) and it is quite possible that he has never come accross a rare exception to this general trend in his personal experience.


--------------------
'You can go to a hospital
Get yourself cleaned out.'


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Offlinejiva
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Re: Showing proper respect when approaching a powerplant. [Re: Shroomism]
    #2120342 - 11/18/03 05:45 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I view the the medicine as another consciousness. That consciousness is indifferent to me unless I provoke it to act a certain way. If i act toward it with disregard, it does the same to me. If i act toward it with fear, it does the same to me. If i am reverant of it, it will respect me and help me anyway it can. If i happen to develop a long term relationship with this consciousness, unless we keep respecting each other it becomes the usual control bullshit that comes out of normal relationships.

Notice that after that 341st hit of acid the people who use it for parties will freak out and decide they don't need to be trippin' anymore. Notice that a relationship based on respect and love will never even encoutner that kind of conflict (unless it is desired, in which case it is for evolution) and will often last forever, or until both parties have learned everything they can from each other.


--------------------
i am another you


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Invisiblemedicinebag
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Re: Showing proper respect when approaching a powerplant. [Re: jiva]
    #2120380 - 11/18/03 05:57 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Jiva,

Thanks for the reply. It is most welcome. It's good to know that Swami doesn't speak for the entire SandP forum. Later. Peace.

Medicinebag


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Invisiblemedicinebag
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Re: Showing proper respect when approaching a powerplant. [Re: medicinebag]
    #2120394 - 11/18/03 06:03 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Doctor J,

Thanks for being open-minded to the argument. I see where when I said raves it might have come off wrong. I don't know why I used that word. I just did. Yes, dancing is a medicine in itself. I don't know why I used raves, Maybe its that I saw them only as a party where drunkness blinds a person and then more disrespect is shown. So thanks for being open-minded. And yes, I have not met to many people that were at a "party" and were in the right attitude for tripping. Before I say to much again. Thanks. later.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Showing proper respect when approaching a powerplant. [Re: medicinebag]
    #2120421 - 11/18/03 06:15 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I didn't see you going over to Shroomisms thread and busting his balls about his beliefs.
There are many things that you do NOT see (therefore they do not exist?). I disagree with many of shroomism's ideas, but he has a good heart.

Maybe, thats becasue he is a Mod.
Yeah, that gets me quaking in my boots.

I would appreciate if you would not mock my religious beliefs with your jokes.
Perhaps had you come in here respectfully instead of tramping around finding fault everywhere, you just might have received a different reception. Take two mushrooms and think on that.

Have a nice life. thank you very much.
This sounds precariously like a euphimism.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Showing proper respect when approaching a powerplant. [Re: medicinebag]
    #2120428 - 11/18/03 06:16 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I would prefer my threads not to be "crapped" up by someone who apparently doesn't like me on a personal level.

Your perceptual powers are quite weak. I do not dislike you at all; just trying to get you to lighten up a tad.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisiblemedicinebag
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Re: Showing proper respect when approaching a powerplant. [Re: Swami]
    #2120443 - 11/18/03 06:23 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Swami,

Do you answer every post in the same fashion? I think you do it just to get a rise out of people. Later. Dude, your the only one busting my balls. Everyone else that disagreed with me left one post and left it at that. But you, you have to keep putting your two cents down. I have asked you before. Please go away. I do not want to read any of your versions all cut up of what I said. GOODDAY>


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Showing proper respect when approaching a powerplant. [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2120451 - 11/18/03 06:26 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

awwww, thats really too bad, SWAMI. seriously, I was interested in what you had to say, though the first couple excercises were a little patronizing.

They were not meant to be patronizing, but were some exercises that I had on hand to get people involved while I worked on the "real" curriculum.

I was willing to give freely of my time and energy if the interest level was high enough. Perhaps someone else might take the reigns.

As I have once mentioned, it is somewhat of a waste that we have this tremendous resource of people here at the shroomery, yet we remain (as a group) quite unfocused and accomplish little except on the social level. Seems there are amazing things that we could do together. Never before has there been a "tribe" like this in the history of the world.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: Showing proper respect when approaching a powerplant. [Re: Swami]
    #2120454 - 11/18/03 06:28 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

heil SWAMI!


--------------------
'You can go to a hospital
Get yourself cleaned out.'


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Offlinesirreal
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Re: Showing proper respect when approaching a powerplant. [Re: Swami]
    #2120584 - 11/18/03 07:05 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Damn it Swami, I'm interested.

Do you need EVERYONE to show interest to continue.

I did the first couple of exercises, I was just not responding until later.


--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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Offlinejiva
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Re: Showing proper respect when approaching a powerplant. [Re: sirreal]
    #2120632 - 11/18/03 07:28 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

welcome to the forum medicinebag. swami comes off as kind of abrasive, male incarnate ^_^. i consider him a lesson in tollerance and patience.


--------------------
i am another you


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Showing proper respect when approaching a powerplant. [Re: medicinebag]
    #2121828 - 11/19/03 04:45 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

"I was a non-believer, too. Then I tried a new approach. To treat the mushroom just like it was treated by those that first discovered how to commune with him in this "new world"."

Well, once you force yourself to approach a certain viewpoint, you will adopt it.

When I first started using psychedelics, I took a far more spiritual approach to them. I spent a few years using them as though they magical sacraments. They showed me "truths". For a while I even believed I knew exactly what the experience of the afterlife would be like. I thought it had something to do with purity of colour.

I spent a lot of time thinking about this, but one thing didn't seem to work out. Why are there so many people with other ideas of the afterlife that oppose mine? They all seemed to believe in their ideas, some even had opposing beliefs they were willing to fight and die for.

I began to think that what psychdelics were really showing me, was how powerful a slight chemical change in the mind can be.

Belief is a very powerful thing, but only in the mind of the believer. It occured to me that when I believed something only because it felt right, it could easily turn out to be false.

I think that while you believe you are having the most beneficial and wonderful trips possible, there are people who are approaching the drugs in an entirely different way, and having equally beautiful experiences.

They may be missing out of some of the glorious experiences you've had, but you could be easily missing out on some of the wonderful experiences they've had.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Invisiblemedicinebag
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Re: Showing proper respect when approaching a powerplant. [Re: medicinebag]
    #2126444 - 11/21/03 01:05 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I do not have to fast, meditate on my intentions, make offerenings to the four compass points and sprinkle tobacco when I visit my dear old granny...

Swami,

You know your suppose to always bring tobacco when you visit your elders. *laughs*

Hey,

We kinda got off to a bad start. It started with this post so I hope we can end it with this post. What'd say. Bury the hatchet, Kocheese?


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Offlinewrestler_az
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Re: Showing proper respect when approaching a powerplant. [Re: medicinebag]
    #2126691 - 11/21/03 05:01 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

look man, to be quite honest i got a little offended when you told me that i ...never get anything of "TRUE" value from my trips.

Quote:

If someone is tripping for pleasure, sex or to be able to drink longer, then nothing seen will be of any value do to the disrespect shown.




though i fail to see what you mean when talk about being able to drink longer on shrooms, these other two examples you presented didnt sit well with me....

every time i trip i trip for pleasure....if it wasnt fun i wouldnt do it. does that mean i fail to come out with anything of value? no... i find a pleasurable experience to be of great value in of itself, not counting any insight that may or may not have taken place...

and sex....2 people, in love, under the influence of psycadelics, having sex....ya, your probably right....nothing of any real value there...

i have never actually tried this on shrooms, but i think having sex with a person you care about, while under the influence could be a truely magical experience....

the fact is, maybe what we hold to be of true value, isnt quite the same as yours....i value every trip, regardless of what happens. i think there is something to be learned from every trip, even if the lesson isnt out in plain sight. sometimes, you got to dig a little deeper for the meaning....just my thoughts, i agree with what you said to a certain extent...in that a level of respect should be had when usng such tools...taken in the wrong situation, things could get a little ugly.


--------------------
how's your WOW?





  Edited by yageman (04/20/06 4:20 PM) 


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Offlinecastaway
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Re: Showing proper respect when approaching a powerplant. [Re: medicinebag]
    #2126715 - 11/21/03 05:54 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

"When I use the word Whore it should be already understood, as not a prostitute's vocation but a whore, a worthless thing to be used then thrown away."- Medicinebag

Like a candy wrapper...who's sole existence could be considered to be temptation...into pleasure....which could be judged to be a worthless and despicable pastime...which then translates into the perception that whores are worthless and despicable (guilt by association)

Perhaps it is the judgement itself of worthlessness that results in the aesthetic's denunciation of pleasure?


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Invisiblemedicinebag
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Re: Showing proper respect when approaching a powerplant. [Re: castaway]
    #2126829 - 11/21/03 09:08 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Do not take offense. Why did it offend you. I stated what I stated. I stand by my words, however, scewed the perceptions may be. When I said whore, It was a metaphor. Not to be taken literally, but to be understood as the opposite of a grandmother metaphor. One is respected the other is not. I do not wish to argue over the grammar I chose. The meaning I was trying to potray is, even though you think that it is a wonderful experience, the experience becomes entirely different when respect is shown to the spirit of the mushroom. I have defined the spirit as not the mushroom or psilocybin. They are the vehicle which takes you away to another realm. Of course, you will have a wonderful expereince on mushrooms regardless of respect shown. However, I do not believe that "pleasure" is the only reason why someone should trip. I apologise for offense. I would rather not argue about it. Do what you wish, I have stated what I am going to state on the subject. Later.


Edited by medicinebag (11/21/03 11:41 AM)


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OfflineMushmonkey
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Re: Showing proper respect when approaching a powerplant. [Re: medicinebag]
    #2128422 - 11/21/03 11:43 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

First off, I disagree with you.
With that out of the way
Sure, there's a lot of people who you think probably shouldn't be eating mushies. There's a lot of people I think probably shouldn't be eating them either -- and a lot of people I think SHOULD, but aren't.
It's not from their disrepectful eating of mushrooms that their problems stem but rather from themselves.
Most people out there in the world are not introspective thought-laden beings of understanding and curiosity, and to expect them to be so is silly.
If you're into the whole spirituality thing, man.. run with it. It's not for everyone. It can't be for everyone. I've never tried it and never will, because I'm awfully sure that if I started a trip with ceremony and prayer and putting on a show, it would result in a HORRIBLE HORRIBLE experience -- because in my heart I believe those things to be hollow, and as the trip came on that would end up being the overwhelming overpowering thought that i can't control and can't dismiss.
Often I think that those who say their trips are so much better and more productive are fooling themselves. Or, perhaps that's too harsh -- but it's a different perspective. A different perspective on the exact same things -- forcing yourself to believe you've found answers (perhaps not forcing, but expecting, tricking maybe).
The one thing that I will admit to you -- your method might make it easier to let go of 'reality'. I've had difficulty in the past unconciously fighting the trip, which is both good and bad.. the good is, I'm generally a very sane-acting tripper, and can function very well in public without anyone picking up on anything odd.. the bad is an incredibly, incredibly taxingly stressful mental jumble where I'm constantly forcing myself to see everything how it really is and resisting the trip itself (which i think is also why i almost never have any visuals). Yuo might think it's a bit ridiculous to go about it like that, but honestly I've had some great times. Fun, mostly, but a few insightful, and one magical night (on acid, not mushies) that i turned into some kind of superman who could remember where everything down to the smallest penny in the apartment was and who could juggle (which I've never been able to do but that once).


--------------------
i finally got around to making a sig
revel in its glory and quake in fear at its might
grar.


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OfflineGrav
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Re: Showing proper respect when approaching a powerplant. [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #2128596 - 11/22/03 02:13 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

If I've really learned anything about tripping, it's how much of a crutch it can easily become.

How easily beauty can stagnate.


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