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Offlineknomadic_niki
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GMO wheat as grain spawn
    #21126029 - 01/15/15 05:29 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

What is everyone's take on growing mycelium out on GMO wheat as grain spawn? My understanding is that mycelium "combust" molecules into their most basic parts and reconstruct them into fungi cells. But if there is genetic modification of the dna in the wheat, will it be carried through to the mushrooms? Does anyone have any links to research done in this area? Just wondering because GMO wheat is extremely cheap.


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Invisiblefarmerb
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Re: GMO wheat as grain spawn [Re: knomadic_niki]
    #21126102 - 01/15/15 05:50 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

I don't believe GMO wheat is not approved for sale or commercial production in the US. Do you mean conventionally grown?


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: GMO wheat as grain spawn [Re: farmerb]
    #21126355 - 01/15/15 06:49 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

As of 2013, no GM wheat is grown commercially, but many field tests have been conducted. -wiki

I use wheat for grain spawn.  Works fine.


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Offlineknomadic_niki
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Re: GMO wheat as grain spawn [Re: drake89]
    #21126751 - 01/15/15 08:20 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Yes, most of the wheat for sale in the US is GMO. I bought animal grade whole wheat. The store manager told me its GMO. I'm sure the mushrooms grown on GMO wheat will look and taste the same, and grow the same. I'm wondering if it will still contain the altered genetics, though. Will I be growing BT mushrooms?


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Re: GMO wheat as grain spawn [Re: knomadic_niki]
    #21126783 - 01/15/15 08:27 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

knomadic_niki said:
Yes, most of the wheat for sale in the US is GMO. I bought animal grade whole wheat. The store manager told me its GMO. I'm sure the mushrooms grown on GMO wheat will look and taste the same, and grow the same. I'm wondering if it will still contain the altered genetics, though. Will I be growing BT mushrooms?



It's not gmo according to Wikipedia who I tend to trust.  They spray the shit out of it with glyphosate to prepare the seed bed, not much will grow up in it since the stand is so dense.  Then they spray the shit out of it before it's dead and this kills it and drys it out somehow for better harvest.


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Offlineknomadic_niki
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Re: GMO wheat as grain spawn [Re: drake89]
    #21126808 - 01/15/15 08:37 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Wiki is not the most reliable source for information, since anyone can edit it. although, i do appreciate its value for preliminary information. my supplier (ranch way) is doing gm testing on its grains because it has to in order to put a usda label on its organic grains. they said they find gm grains in their non-organic grain


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Re: GMO wheat as grain spawn [Re: knomadic_niki]
    #21126810 - 01/15/15 08:37 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

The store manager lied or doesn't know what GMO is. They are not cultivating GMO wheat. It might be known as conventional but not GMO.

Using GMO grain will not affect the mushroom and the mushroom will not have GMO in it.

If it was GMO and cheap I would buy it!!:yesnod:

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Re: GMO wheat as grain spawn [Re: knomadic_niki]
    #21126855 - 01/15/15 08:48 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Just look up the gluten allergy and round up debate.  It would not exist with round up ready wheat.


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Offlineknomadic_niki
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Re: GMO wheat as grain spawn [Re: drake89]
    #21127000 - 01/15/15 09:18 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Then why would Japan and South Korea cancel their shipments of US wheat? I know its not authorized but its out there since they did field tests in the early 2000's. its been tested for. What does gluten sensitivity have to do with it?


It doesn't matter, my question is not whether wheat is GM or not. I'm wondering IF the wheat is GE, will the mushroom will contain genetically altered dna, which I don't believe it will based on the information I have: Mushrooms combust their food into its most basic molecules, producing co2, water and heat. they, then, rearrange those molecules into their own structure. DNA is composed of nucleic acids, arranged in a specific sequence that determines phenotypes and genotypes. if the mushroom combusts the dna and rearranges it, there should be no trace of the GE genes.

Correct?

Anyway, I did buy it. It was only $12 for a 50 lb bag. How could a person pass that up?!


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Offlinezoidbergo
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Re: GMO wheat as grain spawn [Re: knomadic_niki]
    #21127113 - 01/15/15 09:48 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

The majority of all grains grown in the US are GM. The fact that they are able to be sprayed with glycophosate (roundup) IS a genetically modified trait. Genetic modifications done to GMO's are so incredibly  minor that you would have an almost impossible time telling GMO vs non GMO apart, and the mushrooms won't notice a difference either I guarantee.


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: GMO wheat as grain spawn [Re: zoidbergo]
    #21127224 - 01/15/15 10:22 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zoidbergo said:
The majority of all grains grown in the US are GM. The fact that they are able to be sprayed with glycophosate (roundup) IS a genetically modified trait. Genetic modifications done to GMO's are so incredibly  minor that you would have an almost impossible time telling GMO vs non GMO apart, and the mushrooms won't notice a difference either I guarantee.




listen I won't call you a moron but they spray it with glyphosate to kill the plants and desiccate the grains prior to harvesting.


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Offlinezoidbergo
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Re: GMO wheat as grain spawn [Re: drake89]
    #21127499 - 01/16/15 12:10 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Alright that actually makes a lot of sense, glycophosate immunity is a common genetically modified trait. I shouldn't speak where I'm not fully confident. It's really surprising to me that our corn wouldn't be GMO.


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OfflineJeff Vader
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Re: GMO wheat as grain spawn [Re: zoidbergo]
    #21127575 - 01/16/15 12:40 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

GMO, really? I don't feed that shite to my dog never mind my beloved shrooms and family. I hope you have the ethic to pass this info on to whoever consumes the fruit.

:2cents:


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Re: GMO wheat as grain spawn [Re: Jeff Vader] * 1
    #21128677 - 01/16/15 10:55 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

A gourmet mushroom farm I used to work on used GMO cotton seed hulls as bulk substrate (not exactly the same but it should give you an idea).  In order for us to get the USDA Organic stamp, we had to show that the modified gene did not show up in the fruiting body.  I performed isolation and purification of DNA for golden, phoenix, and king oysters and found no sequences that matched the transgene.

Bt is what our supplier told us the modification was on his crops, however he did not know the specific gene so we had to do some digging to find our hybrid transgene was Cry1ac for this particular product.  I found a working restriction enzyme and from there it was just PCR followed by a restriction digest and gel electrophoresis (I would imagine capillary electrophoresis would work as well, as this seems to be the norm nowadays).  Nothing showed up.  Nada.


Quote:

Jeff Vader said:
GMO, really? I don't feed that shite to my dog never mind my beloved shrooms and family. I hope you have the ethic to pass this info on to whoever consumes the fruit.

:2cents:




Even if the gene was transferred somehow to the mushroom, you don't have much to worry about.  From a purely health standpoint, eating a DNA sequence (which you do with every bit of anything you ever eat...well, maybe not candy :tongue2:) has no ill effects on the consumer, even if it is transgenic.  Depending on who grew the wheat in the first place, Bt could be safer because the natural endotoxins means the farmer didn't have to douse their crop in [as much] pesticides.  The case against GMOs in relation to things such as business practices, the environment, and biodiversity are another matter.  But if you're concerned that Bt proteins will end up in your customers gut...don't be.


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Offlineknomadic_niki
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Re: GMO wheat as grain spawn [Re: Mr. Bojangles]
    #21128707 - 01/16/15 11:01 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

YES, MR BOJANGLES! This is exactly what I was asking for. Thank you so much!!!!! I'm going to send you a pm to pick your brain about gmo testing and gene sequencing. I did some in college but I don't remember much. It would be sweet to be able to test for such things at home in my rural community for the organic farmers here. We have trouble finding non-gmo feed for our animals.

Yes, this goes along with what I theorized but I wanted confirmation that the dna sequence would not be transferred to the consuming organism, the mushroom. this is great news! thanks a million!


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OfflineJeff Vader
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Re: GMO wheat as grain spawn [Re: knomadic_niki]
    #21128944 - 01/16/15 12:13 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

knomadic_niki said:
YES, MR BOJANGLES! This is exactly what I was asking for. Thank you so much!!!!! I'm going to send you a pm to pick your brain about gmo testing and gene sequencing.




Please keep this in view of the forum for peer review if nothing else.

Quote:

Mr. Bojangles said:
But if you're concerned that Bt proteins will end up in your customers gut...don't be.




This has sparked my interest, if fungi can be proven to truly not carry any proteins as with heavy metals I see use for this in the environment as a whole.


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Re: GMO wheat as grain spawn [Re: farmerb]
    #21129103 - 01/16/15 12:46 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

^for posterity:

Quote:

knomadic_niki said:
i'm happy to hear that you did the isolation and sequencing and can tell me, for certain, that you did not find the bt gene in the mushrooms. did you test the cottonseed hulls for it, too?

what is required to do such testing? it would be very helpful if it were possible to do this testing at low cost at home. my rural valley community produces the most organic produce in all of colorado. however, its getting harder and harder to find animal feed that is gmo free. i know some people are ethically against gm foods but if i could test the meat and find no trace of the gm genes, then they could certify their food as organic, even if they decide to feed gm (non organic) to keep costs down.

sorry about the rant, this is exciting news to me. i don't want to be stuck paying for food-grade organic grains for grain spawn, which is 4-10 times as expensive as non-organic animal feed.

thanks, again.




I did not find the Bt gene at all in the mushroom.  I isolated the gene from the cottonseed hulls myself and used it as the control.  I can't remember the exact protocol but I just plugged Cry1ac and Bt Cotton into Web of Science (you prob have to go to the library to access this database) and found suitable literature to follow. 

You would definitely need the ways and means to perform PCR properly.  That includes a centrifuge and micropipettes that, I'm guessing, would already be out of your league.  I was in college at the time so I just used my biochem lab...you can do this if you have access...you'd also need a gel electrophoresis system and proper buffers...then a way to visualize the gel. 

I would recommend contacting an independent lab and sending samples of various plants and their feedstock to get tested.  Usually independent testing is pricy, but not as pricy as trying to do all this yourself.  Hell, if you wanted to make some money on top of that I'd go around to all the folks and offer to test it for them...charge a premium on top of what it costs to send it away and then you're able to give them solid, validated results and put money in your pocket.  You'd be surprised how lazy/ignorant people are to the fact that many things they pay money for are just a click or phone call away.  Getting results from a validated testing lab would also be beneficial when trying to label your produce as USDA organic, as they don't really take too well to DIY methods.


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Offlineknomadic_niki
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Re: GMO wheat as grain spawn [Re: Mr. Bojangles]
    #21129840 - 01/16/15 03:40 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

@jeff. mushrooms bioaccumulate heavy metals because they are still heavy metals in their molecular form. mushrooms combust proteins because they are carbon, nitrogen, oxygen and hydrogen in their most basic molecular form, although they probably only break them down into amino acids and rebuild them. i'm not positive about how much the mushrooms break stuff down. but it is impossible to break down heavy metals unless you remove electrons or protons, and then you just end up with isotopes of it or a different heavy metal. to my knowledge, chemical decomposition is the only way to change heavy metals. no biological organism can do it. could be wrong about that, too

@mr.bojangles,
yea, i'm probably getting ahead of myself. I just imagine having a wicked awesome lab in my house, not having to answer to anybody like i would if i went back to school :cool: i'll check into private labs and their prices


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