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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: the prevalence of right-wing ideology (and ideologues) on the shroomery [Re: psyconaught]
    #21129345 - 01/16/15 01:43 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Why do conservatives not know what socialism is?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Offlinepsyconaught
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Registered: 11/04/10
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Re: the prevalence of right-wing ideology (and ideologues) on the shroomery [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21129363 - 01/16/15 01:48 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

are you claiming europe in general doesnt have socialist policies?


--------------------
Think for yourself, question authority

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: the prevalence of right-wing ideology (and ideologues) on the shroomery [Re: psyconaught]
    #21129366 - 01/16/15 01:49 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

I'm claiming that the United States doesn't.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Registered: 11/11/09
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Re: the prevalence of right-wing ideology (and ideologues) on the shroomery [Re: psyconaught]
    #21129369 - 01/16/15 01:50 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

psyconaught said:
are you claiming europe in general doesnt have socialist policies?





Nobody's claiming shit about Europe, try to pay attention.


--------------------

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: the prevalence of right-wing ideology (and ideologues) on the shroomery [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21129371 - 01/16/15 01:50 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Why do conservatives not know what socialism is?




Amazing isn't it?


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Offlinepsyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
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Re: the prevalence of right-wing ideology (and ideologues) on the shroomery [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21129387 - 01/16/15 01:54 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
I'm claiming that the United States doesn't.



oh really? Theres no socialism in America? Is that your final answer? What about farm subsidies? Corporate welfare? Social Security? None of those are socialist at all?


--------------------
Think for yourself, question authority

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Offlinepsyconaught
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Registered: 11/04/10
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Re: the prevalence of right-wing ideology (and ideologues) on the shroomery [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #21129393 - 01/16/15 01:55 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

psyconaught said:
are you claiming europe in general doesnt have socialist policies?





Nobody's claiming shit about Europe, try to pay attention.



I said its common for liberals to advocate European style socialism in America and Fals response was that i don't understand socialism, i can only assume he was responding to my comments.


--------------------
Think for yourself, question authority

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OfflineWebster10
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Re: the prevalence of right-wing ideology (and ideologues) on the shroomery [Re: psyconaught]
    #21129423 - 01/16/15 02:04 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Webster, you are right.



:thatsayes:


--------------------
:leaf: :usa:

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: the prevalence of right-wing ideology (and ideologues) on the shroomery [Re: psyconaught]
    #21129432 - 01/16/15 02:05 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

psyconaught said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
I'm claiming that the United States doesn't.



oh really? Theres no socialism in America? Is that your final answer? What about farm subsidies? Corporate welfare? Social Security? None of those are socialist at all?




Subsidization does not equal socialism.


Here, let me help you (and zappa) out:


Quote:

Socialism is a social and economic system characterised by social ownership of the means of production and co-operative management of the economy, as well as a political theory and movement that aims at the establishment of such a system.





"Management of the economy" is a gray area. If you want to say that subsidizing industry and social welfare with public funds is socialism, then every nation on earth that has taxes and a budget is socialist. Along with every politician that ever existed.

The fact of the matter is, although our government is engaged in managing the economy, our government absolutely does not have ownership of any means of production.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: the prevalence of right-wing ideology (and ideologues) on the shroomery [Re: Webster10]
    #21129436 - 01/16/15 02:06 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Webster10 said:
Quote:

Webster, you are right.



:thatsayes:




I waited in suspense for 5 hours because you were going to school me, and this is your retort?


:thumbup:


--------------------

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: the prevalence of right-wing ideology (and ideologues) on the shroomery [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #21129451 - 01/16/15 02:12 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

psyconaught said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
I'm claiming that the United States doesn't.



oh really? Theres no socialism in America? Is that your final answer? What about farm subsidies? Corporate welfare? Social Security? None of those are socialist at all?




Subsidization does not equal socialism.


Here, let me help you (and zappa) out:


Quote:

Socialism is a social and economic system characterised by social ownership of the means of production and co-operative management of the economy, as well as a political theory and movement that aims at the establishment of such a system.





"Management of the economy" is a gray area. If you want to say that subsidizing industry and social welfare with public funds is socialism, then every nation on earth that has taxes and a budget is socialist. Along with every politician that ever existed.

The fact of the matter is, although our government is engaged in managing the economy, our government absolutely does not have ownership of any means of production.



Exactly.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflineWebster10
Up like Trump
Male


Registered: 12/03/13
Posts: 9,966
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Re: the prevalence of right-wing ideology (and ideologues) on the shroomery [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #21129455 - 01/16/15 02:16 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

Webster10 said:
Quote:

Webster, you are right.



:thatsayes:




I waited in suspense for 5 hours because you were going to school me, and this is your retort?


:thumbup:



As soon as I have a computer to post from. Too much effort on a phone.


--------------------
:leaf: :usa:

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OfflineJkinder313
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Re: the prevalence of right-wing ideology (and ideologues) on the shroomery [Re: Webster10]
    #21129483 - 01/16/15 02:24 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Subsidization does not equal socialism.




http://images.memegenerator.net/images/298x/1153045.jpg

Edited by Jkinder313 (01/16/15 02:26 PM)

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: the prevalence of right-wing ideology (and ideologues) on the shroomery [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21129489 - 01/16/15 02:26 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
I'm claiming that the United States doesn't.



Is Obamacare socialist?  Is welfare socialist?  Is medicaid socialist? Is social security socialist?


--------------------

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OfflineJkinder313
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Registered: 07/18/14
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Re: the prevalence of right-wing ideology (and ideologues) on the shroomery [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21129493 - 01/16/15 02:28 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
I'm claiming that the United States doesn't.



Is Obamacare socialist?  Is welfare socialist?  Is medicaid socialist? Is social security socialist?




All of that is Socialism, regardless of your opinions.

Definitively-meaning as defined-subsidy (welfare) is Socialism.

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 34,046
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Re: the prevalence of right-wing ideology (and ideologues) on the shroomery [Re: Webster10]
    #21129531 - 01/16/15 02:38 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Webster10 said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

Webster10 said:
Quote:

Webster, you are right.



:thatsayes:




I waited in suspense for 5 hours because you were going to school me, and this is your retort?


:thumbup:



As soon as I have a computer to post from. Too much effort on a phone.




Hasn't taken me any effort.


--------------------

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 34,046
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Re: the prevalence of right-wing ideology (and ideologues) on the shroomery [Re: Jkinder313]
    #21129541 - 01/16/15 02:39 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Jkinder313 said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
I'm claiming that the United States doesn't.



Is Obamacare socialist?  Is welfare socialist?  Is medicaid socialist? Is social security socialist?




All of that is Socialism, regardless of your opinions.

Definitively-meaning as defined-subsidy (welfare) is Socialism.




I already defined it.

Tell me what's means of production is socially owned (aka by the government) in any of those things.


--------------------

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OfflineWebster10
Up like Trump
Male


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Re: the prevalence of right-wing ideology (and ideologues) on the shroomery [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #21129563 - 01/16/15 02:45 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

Webster10 said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:

I waited in suspense for 5 hours because you were going to school me, and this is your retort?


:thumbup:



As soon as I have a computer to post from. Too much effort on a phone.




Hasn't taken me any effort.



Foolishness doesn't require effort.


--------------------
:leaf: :usa:

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OfflineJkinder313
Stranger
Registered: 07/18/14
Posts: 125
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
Re: the prevalence of right-wing ideology (and ideologues) on the shroomery [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #21129571 - 01/16/15 02:46 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Subsidies are just another form of Welfare. How is Welfarism not Socialism?

Besides, you cannot define Socialism in one way because there are many definitions of Socialism. You should try sticking with principle, instead. Socialism is extortion. There, that explains all Socialism. :smile:

Edited by Jkinder313 (01/16/15 02:46 PM)

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OfflineJkinder313
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Registered: 07/18/14
Posts: 125
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
Re: the prevalence of right-wing ideology (and ideologues) on the shroomery [Re: Jkinder313]
    #21129589 - 01/16/15 02:50 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Though the Government does not have to own the means of production for there to be Socialism, (believe me, there are some Socialists who are also Anarchists which, in my mind is not possible because I'm an Anarcho-Capitalist) the government does own the means of production de facto through some lucrative economic and financial practices.
They amount to owning the means of production.

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