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Invisiblemushmagic
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: oxana]
    #19602328 - 02/22/14 12:11 AM (10 years, 3 days ago)

Just flame it, it's not that inconvenient.


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InvisibleJ. Jack Flash
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: oxana]
    #19602504 - 02/22/14 01:19 AM (10 years, 3 days ago)

propane torch is where it's at.


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Offlinedr.alkaline
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: J. Jack Flash] * 1
    #20221137 - 07/03/14 09:10 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

Hi Violet:thumbup:

I am giving your grain prep a try(the short boiling prep, using brown rice):


I have a few questions if you have time to respond or if anyone can answer for that matter. My first time working with grains ever, sorry.


Do you strain immediately after throwing rice in the first boil and place in new water for the second boil or are you removing the pan from the heat of the first boil, leaving the rice in the original water, and just bringing it back up to the second boil?




Edited by dr.alkaline (07/03/14 09:46 PM)


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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: dr.alkaline]
    #20223799 - 07/04/14 12:12 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

After the first brief boil, having thrown the rice into the already boiling water and only keeping a boil 3-6 minutes, I leave the grain in the hot water.  The next day I carefully bring it up to a low/moderate boil until the rice is properly hydrated, then strain immediately.

With rice, it may take two or three tries to learn how to do it right.

Good luck!


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
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OfflineMyconomy
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Violet]
    #20835124 - 11/14/14 05:48 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

I may just be a little bit confused with the grain water Violet, hoping you can clear this up for me, and anyone else who has this question.

You collect the water, and it separates into a milky substance, and a clearer/yellow substance.

Now the first jar of milky substance you appear to be mixing with agar-agar powder, and using with scrubbies as a substrate, and the agar/milk mix as the nutrient, correct?

The second jar of clearer/yellow substance you said is "agar".
Now are you using this with your agar-agar powder as a way to make your agar go further? Or are you using that clearer/yellow liquid alone as a replacement for agar?


Love your work Violet!    :thumbup::mushroom2::grin:


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Hydrogen is an invisible, odorless gas, that when given enough time turns into people... and mushrooms.


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Invisibleblackdust
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Violet]
    #21081176 - 01/07/15 06:21 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Violet, I would like your opinion since you have worked with grass seeds so much.


Can I hydrate grass seed to get the proper moisture content of the grain then mix into a Coir/Verm/Gypsum sub to be oven pasteurized like in this method? http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20822448


Colonization time should be 3 days with using 2 qts of grain slurry. The idea is that the grass seed in the sub will give the added nutrients to get larger yields without having to create tons of spawn for the same results. Thank you. I'm about to get some grass seed this weekend along with a PC. :heart:


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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: blackdust]
    #21081193 - 01/07/15 06:37 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

If any grain can do it, it's grass seed.
I have several times just added unprepared seed to coir and pasteurized in a mycobag, then inoculated into that bag to make a block.  It worked for me every time and I only inoculated with a few spoonsful of colonized seed since they have so many inoculation points. Yields were pretty good so the grain's nutrition WAS used.

It works since the seed is so tiny, being steamed inside the hydrated bulk sub for so long as in a thorough pasteurization adequately hydrates and prepares it.

I don't know if your results would be different preparing the seed first.  Might be possible that bacteria could become a bit of a problem but I suppose just as much that it would work no differently.
I haven't done an oven pasteurization before and don't plan to since I don't use bulk subs for Cubensis, only gourmets.
It would be worth a shot and that's something I'd be interested to see the results of.  Grass seed is truly a special grain so more tricks are possible with it than anything else.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts


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Invisibleblackdust
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Violet]
    #21081249 - 01/07/15 07:24 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Cool. Thanks for your input. Im getting the grass seed because of all the info and experience you have shared to the community. You will be glad to know I just got the plastic qt containers for the pom tek and some smaller plastic containers for my agar as Whyte uses. I will be using an agar wedge for inoculation of the pom tek. Already have the brown rice and about to head out to the health store to get the agar. :thumbup: I'm excited. I will ask cron to let me back in your thread in about a month when I got the pictures to share to support the pom tek. :heart:


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OfflineEdmunter
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: blackdust]
    #21119958 - 01/14/15 11:04 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

V, so im pouring off the top layer of grainwater and leaving that to settle along with the Sludge at the bottom, which brings me onto me next point.


Can you expand on this

'... leaving behind a thick almost syrup solution of grain starches and nutrients.  With ~1/3 the normal proportion agar-agar powder and a little help from another trick this amounts to more substrate, but that's something else altogether!'

And...I dont ask much.  How can I get my cultures to grow quicker.  They are on a shelf a 65-70 degrees and they are slow.

I have a few in the airing cupboard which is 75-80 but I havent used this before as I like to grow in the light.  If you grow in the dark and then take it out when its done it can trigger fruiting ive read, is this a myth?


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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Edmunter]
    #21119981 - 01/14/15 11:12 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Edmunter said:
V, so im pouring off the top layer of grainwater and leaving that to settle along with the Sludge at the bottom, which brings me onto me next point.

Can you expand on this

'... leaving behind a thick almost syrup solution of grain starches and nutrients.  With ~1/3 the normal proportion agar-agar powder and a little help from another trick this amounts to more substrate, but that's something else altogether!'



That's poms which I posted almost a year later after this post.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20643482#20643482

Quote:

Edmunter said:
And...I dont ask much.  How can I get my cultures to grow quicker.  They are on a shelf a 65-70 degrees and they are slow.

I have a few in the airing cupboard which is 75-80 but I havent used this before as I like to grow in the light.  If you grow in the dark and then take it out when its done it can trigger fruiting ive read, is this a myth?



Sorry to hear they're going so slowly...
Temperature is all you can do.  Temperature stability is important too, not for speed but for humidity and moisture loss.  Sealed containers like my dishes won't lose moisture but it can condense and form droplets.

Don't worry about the exposure to light.  You don't really have to be concerned with plates fruiting.  If they would at all, it typically won't be until after they're over-grown and have digested the nutrition for some time.

It is better to colonize with some ambient room lighting, but not necessary.  Any provable difference has been very slight.
The temperature has a far bigger effect.

Also, you might just not have very fast genes...
See my culturing tek to see how I select the fastest genes.  I only take pins from the seed puck containers that fully colonize radially first.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts


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Invisibleblackdust
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Violet]
    #21120010 - 01/14/15 11:22 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

The inoculation type is the largest factor in colonization speeds. Followed by temperature. Then followed by genetics.


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I am wrong all the time but my experience and readings lead me to my above statement. I would be more than gladly to read opposing views as I'm not interested in a debate but the ideas others may share.


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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: blackdust]
    #21120027 - 01/14/15 11:27 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

I guess I figured Ed was talking about his cultures colonizing agar.

Ed if you're talking about getting faster colonization of grains etc. then try using liquid inoculant.  If you're using grain-to-grain inoculation, try using grass seed for your master jars.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts


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Invisibleblackdust
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Violet]
    #21120048 - 01/14/15 11:32 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Violet, can you share some likely (local) source's of where grass seed could be found?


I know this about sourcing local grains

Whole Oats: Tractor supply or other feed stores (cow food)
Rye berries: whole foods or other health stores
WBS: Most retail grocery stores.
Brown Rice: Most retail grocery stores.


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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: blackdust]
    #21120064 - 01/14/15 11:36 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

I get grass seed from feed stores.  Those stores have many different kinds of rye, wheat, birdseed, oats... and of course, grass seed.  Haven't found a better price on any and they're all 'untreated'

Also have found grass seed at places that carry any lawn stuff.  It's usually much more expensive at places like that though.

Mostly I only recommend grass seed for my culturing tech and for master grain-to-grain jars. It excels immensely over any other grain for those two uses.
It also, as we've discussed before, can be used unprepared in a very-thorough pasteurization for supplementing bulk substrate bags.

Otherwise, there's not much advantage to the grass seed that accounts for the typically higher price.  Although I do enjoy its quick sterilization and colonization and that it flushes out its yield more quickly in my container tek, having a higher BE and cycling containers more quickly.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts


Edited by Violet (01/14/15 11:37 AM)


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Invisibleblackdust
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Violet]
    #21120208 - 01/14/15 12:08 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Thank you for your response. :thanx:


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OfflineEdmunter
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Violet]
    #21120262 - 01/14/15 12:20 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

No Im talking about Clones, transfers, spore swabs and anything else I may put in my easy agar dishes.

Here are my 2 jugs.  One with top pour and the other with sludge.

Top pour is all the nutes I need with a third of the agar I usually use.  So if I usually use 10g agar: 7g starch: 2g dextrose: 1g yeast per 500ml

So with this I would use 3g Agar, 10 g grainwater?



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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Edmunter]
    #21120282 - 01/14/15 12:27 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah I figured you meant agar.  My first post about speed applies then.

No, for regular agar dishes, use as much as you normally would - 9-10g agar-agar for 500mL, or .5g agar-agar per 25mL dish.

The tek using grainwater for growing mushrooms, poms, is specifically what you can use 1/3 the agar-agar for. Even less potentially, up to just 1/5 or so, especially with very starchy sub.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts


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OfflineEdmunter
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Violet]
    #21120380 - 01/14/15 12:48 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Thanks!!!

Its great to see you are part of the community now.  Im very liberal and always like alternative view if only for the sake of change.  It has been very interesting watching your growth,  you were attacked by the extremists(and sheep), questioned by the curious and accepted by the open minded.

You seem to be one of the brightest amongst us .  Do you have any background on yourself you'd care to share?


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InvisibleGuardian187
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Edmunter]
    #21120614 - 01/14/15 01:56 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

You say temperature affects the growth on agar and also mentioned humidity. Would a very dry room slow the colonization of agar?

I put a drop of spore syringe solution on a dozen Petris about 4 days ago and still don't see much signs of any growth (see a small spec of mycelium).

RH of room is low and temp is around 68F :frown:

Edit: A drop per plate, to clarify...


Edited by Guardian187 (01/14/15 01:58 PM)


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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Edmunter]
    #21120654 - 01/14/15 02:05 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Background on myself? Not quite sure what you mean. As far as relevant background, I can't really think of anything off the top of my head...


Quote:

Guardian187 said:
You say temperature affects the growth on agar and also mentioned humidity. Would a very dry room slow the colonization of agar?

I put a drop of spore syringe solution on a dozen Petris about 4 days ago and still don't see much signs of any growth (see a small spec of mycelium).

RH of room is low and temp is around 68F :frown:

Edit: A drop per plate, to clarify...



Humidity in a room shouldn't slow down a plate's colonization, because the humidity in the plate should be high regardless of the room, since it's sealed away from the room's air.  Otherwise it wouldn't stay sterile.

I only mentioned moisture relative to temperature stability.  If the temps are swinging all the time, it will exacerbate moisture evaporation from the agar or whatever other sub, and condensing on all the other surfaces of the container.


Just 4 days ago isn't very long for spore germination.  I typically didn't see it that soon.  Mine would be 4-7 days typically, and that's from my own prints.  Otherwise more like 6-12 days IME.
Patience, friend :]


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts


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