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Offlinegeorgewash
old hand
Registered: 01/21/99
Posts: 500
Last seen: 20 years, 6 months
IP's being Logged at the Shroomery
    #2111800 - 11/16/03 02:38 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Hi Guys,
I thought this topic would be of considerable interest to this forum. People who have been at the shroomery for a while remember when promises were made IP's would not be logged to ensure members security, I was under the impression that this policy was still in effect. Regardless....

Quote:


From the Shroomery Privacy Statement
IP Logging
The Shroomery server does log IP addresses when you visit a page. This is done for our security and yours. These logs are deleted from the server once a week. IP logging could occur on a specific user's account in the rare case that they abuse policy or are threatening the stability of the site. We reserve the right to log IPs at any time.





Obviously if you have nothing to hide no big deal, I'm not terribley worried about it myself because i'm on the straight and narrow these days.

I do think this is important information that everyone should know. Realistically with the expanding powers of the government it could be a scary prospect for some of the members here to have their IP address in the hands of say the DEA. Especially if they can link that IP address to posting pictures of their growing setup...

Anyhow, I'm not putting on my tinfoil hat or saying this is a big conspiracy, but I think everyone here should just be aware..

g-dub

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InvisibleImOver18
FormerlyMr.Sleep

Registered: 10/05/03
Posts: 763
Re: IP's being Logged at the Shroomery [Re: georgewash]
    #2112087 - 11/16/03 04:17 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks G.

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InvisibleTinMan
Stranger

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 2,956
Loc: Russia
Re: IP's being Logged at the Shroomery [Re: georgewash]
    #2112109 - 11/16/03 04:28 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

No one ever said IPs weren't logged. You have to view this from a security standpoint, the logs are only viewed when something bad happens (hacking attempt) and other than that, they are deleted regularly.

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Offlinewindex
old hand
Registered: 06/27/01
Posts: 1,293
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
Re: IP's being Logged at the Shroomery [Re: TinMan]
    #2112208 - 11/16/03 05:04 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah, its really not a big deal, due to the way the internet works anyway. If someone wanted to see what you were up to they would just watch the router/proxy at the co-loc or the router at your ISP.

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InvisiblePapaverS
Madmin Emeritus?

Registered: 06/01/02
Posts: 26,880
Loc: Radio Free Tibet!
Re: IP's being Logged at the Shroomery [Re: TinMan]
    #2112212 - 11/16/03 05:06 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

These threads show up every few weeks -- in fact, we've had two in the last 24 hours. They are like "Requiem for a Dream" threads, or "What's the strongest strain of Psilocybe" threads. Half of them always involve some sort of past issue about someone feeling like they were lied too at some point in the distant past, by some previous admin, which is why about 9 months ago there was a statement added regarding this issue under the "Privacy Statement."

I don't really know about how this site was run, and who said what to whom, before I got here, but every time this issue comes up, I have told people, that we do log IPs -- that it is part of running a web-server -- and if they are concerned about this, then they should visit our security forum, and look up proxies.


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InvisiblePsiloKitten
Ganja Goddess

Registered: 02/12/99
Posts: 1,617
Re: IP's being Logged at the Shroomery [Re: Papaver]
    #2113561 - 11/16/03 10:29 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

This has been an issue repeatedly, because this is a drug related web site.

This has been a major issue, major mycological leaders of this community have weighed in on this issue. Many people left the shroomery.

Just cause you dont know the history or anything about what concerns this site's average user, it dont make it right.


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InvisiblePapaverS
Madmin Emeritus?

Registered: 06/01/02
Posts: 26,880
Loc: Radio Free Tibet!
Re: IP's being Logged at the Shroomery [Re: PsiloKitten]
    #2113686 - 11/16/03 11:01 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Just cause you dont know the history or anything about what concerns this site's average user, it dont make it right.




You need to stop spending so much time dwelling on the past. The whole world can't stay frozen at some arbitrary moment in time just to please you, nor can this message board. You also need to stop brandishing these surreal accusations and paranoid assumptions about this site's staff. It's a tad hyperbolic, and frankly, I don't think it reflects well on you or your arguments.

I have addressed this issue clearly, every time I've seen it come up. Explore your environment -- click on things like the "Privacy Policy," UTSE, and don't make assumptions. You need to connect some fact to your typing. Don't simply type every thought that flows into your mind as if it's fact, because it's not...

If you have an actual reason to protect yourself, then for God Sake's, do so! Don't rely on others to do it for you -- especially on an internet message board. This is common sense, and something every cultivator should know, which is why we have this forum, why I reply truthfully every time I see this issue, and why things are now clearly spelled out in the Privacy Policy. :smile:


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InvisibleImOver18
FormerlyMr.Sleep

Registered: 10/05/03
Posts: 763
Re: IP's being Logged at the Shroomery [Re: Papaver]
    #2113726 - 11/16/03 11:12 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Papaver said:
Quote:


If you have an actual reason to protect yourself, then for God Sake's, do so! Don't rely on others to do it for you -- especially on an internet message board. This is common sense, and something every cultivator should know, which is why we have this forum, why I reply truthfully every time I see this issue, and why things are now clearly spelled out in the Privacy Policy. :smile: 



Very well said. 

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Offlinegeorgewash
old hand
Registered: 01/21/99
Posts: 500
Last seen: 20 years, 6 months
Re: IP's being Logged at the Shroomery [Re: Papaver]
    #2113829 - 11/16/03 11:44 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Papaver,
So what, who cares how many times someone posts it, no need for you to stick your nose in here? Obviously one person didn't know this and took the time to say thanks, so I figure my post was succesful. Are you trying to come in here and argue, start a dust storm? I said in my post, that this was no big deal just something I thought people should be aware of. Obviously most people don't go into the privacy statement often and read it. I read it the first time I came here, but not in the last 9 months so I was unaware as were a lot of people I talked to.

Just FYI a promise was made previously that IP's would not be logged. Because that was said some people were under the impression that this policy continued. People who have been around this site longer then you may remember that promise and think it is still valid. I wanted to clarify for those people or anyone else who didn't know. Like I said, it is no BIG DEAL.

Thanks for being such a caring mod. Attitudes like yours really make the member/mod relationship so much better!

g-dub

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InvisiblePapaverS
Madmin Emeritus?

Registered: 06/01/02
Posts: 26,880
Loc: Radio Free Tibet!
Re: IP's being Logged at the Shroomery [Re: georgewash]
    #2114024 - 11/17/03 12:28 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Ok, fair enough. :smile:

It is an important issue. I was just caught up in all the other "stuff" going on right now. It's not always easy to separate things, and I've got a lot of threads I'm following at the moment...


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Offline3DSHROOM
loon
Male

Registered: 04/19/99
Posts: 2,878
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
Re: IP's being Logged at the Shroomery [Re: georgewash]
    #2115016 - 11/17/03 04:51 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

georgewash said:
Just FYI a promise was made previously that IP's would not be logged. Because that was said some people were under the impression that this policy continued. People who have been around this site longer then you may remember that promise and think it is still valid.




Who was this promise made by? Aphex was logging IPs, and Ythan is currently an administrator here and knows that we keep apache logs as he has access to the server, so who exactly are you talking about? And even if someone did promise something like this in the past, promises are broken sometimes due to necessity. This site used to be small and nobody really had to log IPs because there weren't a bunch of people out there trying to test our security..


--------------------
Your friendly neighborhood loon

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Offlinelittlejohn747
addict

Registered: 09/18/03
Posts: 462
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
Re: IP's being Logged at the Shroomery [Re: 3DSHROOM]
    #2115055 - 11/17/03 05:01 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

the other thing to think about is that these Ip's can be used to help us catch scammer's in the marketplace. yes they can use another computer or use a proxy but it is just another tool that can be used.

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InvisibleLana
Head Banana
Female

Registered: 10/27/99
Posts: 3,109
Loc: www.MycoSupply.com
Re: IP's being Logged at the Shroomery [Re: littlejohn747]
    #2115510 - 11/17/03 07:44 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Maybe I can shed a little light on this...

IP addresses are logged by every server.  Period.  Even if you go to anonymous proxy servers, your IP address MUST be logged. 

Why?

Well, say you're here on the shroomery, you're on a proxy server, you write a post, then hit the "Post Reply" button.

In order for that command (the command of you hitting the post reply button) that server, wether its a proxy server or the shroomery server needs to know where that command is coming from.

Anonymous proxy servers simply hide your IP from others while you're on their server.  So if LEO is looking at an anon proxy server while you're posting on a drug related website, he can't see your IP :smile:  But the server can.  It has to.

I hope that makes a little sense. 

As for the Shroomery "logging IP" addresses.  I'm beginning to think that the term "logging" has turned into "we're collecting" IP addresses :smile:  Which definitely isn't the case. 

And as Pap said, if you're worried about your security, don't rely on anyone here to maintain it for you.  I mean we probably could with three easy installments of only $29.95.  .... kidding :wink:

Lana 


--------------------
Myco Supply - Distributors of Mycological Products
http://www.MycoSupply.com

The Premiere Source for Mushroom Growing Supplies.
Visit us online or call us toll free

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Offlinegeorgewash
old hand
Registered: 01/21/99
Posts: 500
Last seen: 20 years, 6 months
Re: IP's being Logged at the Shroomery [Re: Lana]
    #2116975 - 11/17/03 02:46 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

IP addresses are logged by every server. Period. Even if you go to anonymous proxy servers, your IP address MUST be logged.





I definately agree that the server's have to know what IP address to respond too. Thats fine, having IP logs however sitting around for a week is rather different.

Again 3d, and everyone else don't take this as an attack, I completely understand for security reasons your keeping IP logs around. I just thought that I'd clarify for people who weren't aware that it is probable that their IP will be kept on file for a week.

Back in the day, IP's were being logged, it turned into a big deal, a lot of people left the shroomery and Aphex said IP's would never be logged again. From what you said in the other thread it sounds like that promise was never kept and IP's were still being logged either intentially or by oversight. Regardless the news that they are now definately being logged came as a surprise to me and some others.

Like I said in my original post I'm not putting on my tin foil hat, this isn't that big of a deal just something for folks to be aware of.

g-dub


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
Re: IP's being Logged at the Shroomery [Re: georgewash]
    #2117040 - 11/17/03 03:03 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

A few more thoughts...

1) Regardless of the sites you visit, you should always assume that your IP is logged and recorded for all time. If you plan for the worst that can happen, all surprises are pleasant.

2) Historically, computer logs have not carried much weight in court because they are too easy to alter or forge.

3) Assume that IP logs are kept forever. I don't know if they make it to the backups of this site or not, but assume that they do. See the end of item one above.

4) Reread the last line from g-dub's post... "this isn't that big of a deal just something for folks to be aware of"... I couldn't have said it better...


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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OfflineMetaShroom
菌类
 User Gallery

Registered: 06/02/02
Posts: 1,462
Loc: East Anglia UK
Last seen: 16 years, 11 months
Re: IP's being Logged at the Shroomery [Re: Seuss]
    #2132856 - 11/24/03 03:40 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

I remember the huge debate about this a while ago. I think what was said was that of course IPs are logged but they are not linked to usernames - hence the special secret puppet detection thingy that doesn't use IPs - and people seemed to be happy with this. Has this now changed? If someone got an admin login somehow, would they be able to view individual poster's IPs?


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:sleepingcow:  :penguinmonkey: :blah:

JOIN MAPS -> www.MAPS.ORG

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Invisiblepsilomonkey
Twisted brainwrong of a oneoff man mental

Registered: 08/08/03
Posts: 812
Loc: Airstrip One
Re: IP's being Logged at the Shroomery [Re: MetaShroom]
    #2151627 - 12/02/03 11:03 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

It is pretty irrelevant if shroomery logs IPs or not. If a law enforcement agency wanted to gather than information, they would go to shroomery's provider. The owners of shroomery would not be told, in fact it would be an offence for anyone at the provider to inform under 'tipping off'.

Assume what you send on the internet insecure.

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OfflineMetaShroom
菌类
 User Gallery

Registered: 06/02/02
Posts: 1,462
Loc: East Anglia UK
Last seen: 16 years, 11 months
Re: IP's being Logged at the Shroomery [Re: psilomonkey]
    #2152350 - 12/02/03 04:08 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Having a list of IP's isn't going to help a law enforcemnt agency much, however a list of incriminating posts/pictures, together with the IP of the poster certainly would.

AFAIK the shroomery is co-located, so the admin have complete control over the actual machine. It would be quite easy to disable logging of IP's. This is what they have done at indymedia.org. When they need to get an IP of an abusive poster for example, they can turn on an IP log that only resides in RAM, so when the machine is powered down, no trace of it will remain.


--------------------
:sleepingcow:  :penguinmonkey: :blah:

JOIN MAPS -> www.MAPS.ORG

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Offlinehighwayman
long hair, butno hippie

Registered: 12/03/02
Posts: 106
Last seen: 19 years, 11 months
Re: IP's being Logged at the Shroomery [Re: MetaShroom]
    #2152777 - 12/02/03 06:42 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Geeze.... never understood the average person's obsession with hiding their ip address. Its seriously like handing someone your phone number and then complaining that they can call you... knowing IP addresses is not only vital to system security as has been pointed out previously, but also vital to your very ability to communicate on the internet. EVERYONE has your IP address, deal with it. If you want to hide your IP address from the world, the easiest way is to unplug the network cable or phone line from your computer.... bingo, no fucking problem.
I hate repeating things that were already said, but if the government wants to find out who you are, they will have no problem doing so. On the other hand if somebody you pissed off on these forums wants to know, the only thing standing between you and them is the security of the shroomery's server. So why not let them do what every good sysadmin does and thank them for it instead of whining about trivial shit.

Edited by highwayman (12/02/03 10:06 PM)

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OfflineHefex78
Male
Registered: 05/11/03
Posts: 251
Last seen: 5 years, 27 days
*DELETED* [Re: highwayman]
    #2153617 - 12/02/03 11:24 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Post deleted. Reason for deletion: Confidential.

Edited by Wa7sum (10/03/07 08:15 AM)

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