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OfflineBluntsenBurner
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Re: Flipped my sub after 3rd flush [Re: PinPornProducer]
    #21098879 - 01/10/15 08:18 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

PinPornProducer said:
Even if it breaks it's still ok, I beat the hell out of em sometimes and they still fruit just fine. I have a tub on its 3rd long winded flush (they just keep coming) that I broke into 3 pieces to harvest some bottom fruits because I was to lazy too flip it and it's just keeps going. Sometimes they even pin from the cracks



Just stole this from another thread going right now, 13 said this "
yeah kinda, same with bulk substrates, once it fully colonized its almost sealed off with the myc network..  each time you bust the myc up in a jar or on accident you have to let the myc network recolonize/reknit and thats when its susceptible to contams.  and it gets weaker each time its broken up, thats why we dont shake grain jars until they have 30% colonization or it could be to weak to recover.  :thumbup:"


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OfflineBluntsenBurner
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Re: Flipped my sub after 3rd flush [Re: PinPornProducer]
    #21098884 - 01/10/15 08:19 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

PinPornProducer said:
The problem here is a lot of ppl go off of hear say, they never actually have any proof of any of there claims. Because years ago someone said something it all off a sudden becomes a golden rule. I don't believe anything till I see it.



I wouldn't necessarily call the preferred growing methods here hearsay, but tried and proven methods by people who grow more mushrooms than you could possibly imagine.


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OfflinePinPornProducer
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Re: Flipped my sub after 3rd flush [Re: BluntsenBurner] * 1
    #21098888 - 01/10/15 08:20 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Done wasting my time here

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InvisibleGhatti
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Re: Flipped my sub after 3rd flush [Re: PinPornProducer]
    #21098990 - 01/10/15 08:54 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Surface area is your FRIEND. With that being said it is only your friend when it results in healthy decent sized fruits.


For an extreme example fruit  6in deep substrate with an open fruiting surface area diameter of 3in.

Then take that same volume of sub and spread it out in a 1.5in cake and report back which one gives better results. I already know the answer

Also results depend on the grower as well. If your tubs contam after 1-2 flushes then letting them side pin will net you more weight than if you only fruit from one side given proper moisture.
As you are in a race to get the most fruit from each flush before contam sets in. If you are able to run tubs to 4 flushes then it probably ain't matter over the life of your sub.

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InvisibleGhatti
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Re: Flipped my sub after 3rd flush [Re: Ghatti]
    #21098999 - 01/10/15 08:56 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

This has long been debated here with no actual clear answer or study, just heresay and opinion of what growers have seen work best for them.

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OfflineBluntsenBurner
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Re: Flipped my sub after 3rd flush [Re: Ghatti]
    #21099031 - 01/10/15 09:05 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Ghatti said:
Surface area is your FRIEND. With that being said it is only your friend when it results in healthy decent sized fruits.


For an extreme example fruit  6in deep substrate with an open fruiting surface area diameter of 3in.

Then take that same volume of sub and spread it out in a 1.5in cake and report back which one gives better results. I already know the answer

Also results depend on the grower as well. If your tubs contam after 1-2 flushes then letting them side pin will net you more weight than if you only fruit from one side given proper moisture.
As you are in a race to get the most fruit from each flush before contam sets in. If you are able to run tubs to 4 flushes then it probably ain't matter over the life of your sub.



Yeah it might net more in the case of contams setting in after the first or second flush I agree, but strictly in the case of sub running out of resources for more mushrooms it should net the same. (just my opinion.) Thanks for adding your opinion though, I like debates/thought provoking discussions on matters like this, I'm surprised no TC's chimed in on this I was really hoping to hear their thoughts


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OfflinePinPornProducer
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Re: Flipped my sub after 3rd flush [Re: Ghatti]
    #21099123 - 01/10/15 09:27 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

This has long been debated here with no actual clear answer or study, just heresay and opinion of what growers have seen work best for them.



Exactly my point

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OfflineBluntsenBurner
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Re: Flipped my sub after 3rd flush [Re: PinPornProducer]
    #21099194 - 01/10/15 09:53 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

PinPornProducer said:
This has long been debated here with no actual clear answer or study, just heresay and opinion of what growers have seen work best for them.



Exactly my point



Your statement sounded like a general claim to all of the information on this website though lol


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Blunted
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InvisibleGhatti
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Re: Flipped my sub after 3rd flush [Re: BluntsenBurner]
    #21099385 - 01/10/15 10:54 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

I can almost assure you that your mycelium weakens and contams get a foothold long before your sub runs out of nutrients. Water would be the exception but is readily supplemented.

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OfflinePinPornProducer
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Re: Flipped my sub after 3rd flush [Re: Ghatti]
    #21099802 - 01/11/15 01:46 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

And you can prove this?

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Invisibled0urd3n
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Re: Flipped my sub after 3rd flush [Re: PinPornProducer]
    #21099854 - 01/11/15 02:28 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

:popcorn:


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: Flipped my sub after 3rd flush [Re: BluntsenBurner]
    #21099994 - 01/11/15 04:14 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Ghatti said:
I can almost assure you that your mycelium weakens and contams get a foothold long before your sub runs out of nutrients.




true!

Quote:

BluntsenBurner said:
Unless I'm wrong (someone please correct me if I am)side/bottom pinning just takes away from the top of the substrate, it doesn't add any extra. It's just wasting the resources of the sub to produce fucked up pin on the sides and bottom




also true!

you should get 80% of your total yield in the first couple flushes from the surface,
if not you arent mastering the conditions!

also, if a sub contams after 1-2 flushes it was contamed all along.
healthy spawn to properly pasteurized subs (or simple cvg) should stay healthy for at least 3-4 flushes.
but as stated there's no need for 3rd or 4th flushes as they only contain ~20% of the yields.

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InvisibleGhatti
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Re: Flipped my sub after 3rd flush [Re: spacechildo]
    #21100145 - 01/11/15 06:22 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

I actually kinda can prove it. If you were to take your spent sub and then grow a secondary decomposer on it, what do you suppose the new culture is feeding off of?

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OfflinePinPornProducer
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Re: Flipped my sub after 3rd flush [Re: Ghatti]
    #21100322 - 01/11/15 08:06 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Not "kinda" prove it, show me real fkn evidence, actual tried and proven data and not some post that someone is just saying the shit. I can "kinda" prove pretty much anything I want to. Your not going to go to prison for "kinda" raping some chick.  Your never going to use %100 of the nutrients in the sub. There it's always going to be something left over. I'm starting to break out in hives over here, I must be allergic to bullshit.

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InvisibleGhatti
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Re: Flipped my sub after 3rd flush [Re: PinPornProducer] * 1
    #21100345 - 01/11/15 08:14 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

First off: You're a Dick for no reason.

Secondly: You just said yourself " Your never going to use %100 of the nutrients in the sub. There it's always going to be something left over.". Which WAS my point when I said that your myc will weaken and contams set in before you will use up all your nutrients.

So thank you for agreeing in your own little way.

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OfflinePinPornProducer
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Re: Flipped my sub after 3rd flush [Re: BluntsenBurner]
    #21100365 - 01/11/15 08:19 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

BluntsenBurner said:
Quote:

PinPornProducer said:
Quote:

BluntsenBurner said:
Quote:

PinPornProducer said:
I'm kinda torn between using one and not using one. I just recently pulled 4oz worth of side and bottom fruits from one tub. I'm using liners on 2 tubs I spawned on the 6th and see if it makes a difference in the size of the fruits from the top of the sub. If it doesn't make a difference them bottom and side pinning is an added bonus.



Unless I'm wrong (someone please correct me if I am)side/bottom pinning just takes away from the top of the substrate, it doesn't add any extra. It's just wasting the resources of the sub to produce fucked up pin on the sides and bottom, and if you have it pinning all over like that I'm sure you're probably getting tons of aborts.



This tub already produced 11.5oz over 3 flushes, full canopy first flush



Imagine what it would've produced with more resources aimed in the right direction :shrug: that's just my opinion, I could be wrong but in the short experience I have, I have seen side pinning reduce my yields, plus the mushrooms are just ugly. I seriously doubt you're increasing an overall yield by pinning across a larger area on the sub.



I meant prove this and I'm being a dick because I'm sick of ppl giving bogus information that they have no idea if its true or not just because they heard it from someone else

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Invisibleeatyualive
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Re: Flipped my sub after 3rd flush [Re: Ghatti]
    #21100371 - 01/11/15 08:22 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Ghatti said:
Also results depend on the grower as well. If your tubs contam after 1-2 flushes then letting them side pin will net you more weight than if you only fruit from one side given proper moisture.
As you are in a race to get the most fruit from each flush before contam sets in. If you are able to run tubs to 4 flushes then it probably ain't matter over the life of your sub.



also it depends on philosophy. some people like to do one and done tubs. personally i like 2 flush rotation. it gives me a 2 week time table to have spawn produced and tubs colonized and ready to induce fruiting when the current tubs are finished fruiting. sometimes there are gaps and ill run to 5 flushes at most. most of the time if its after 2nd flush, ill dump them if i have a bunch of spawn ready and waiting. id rather get 2 solid flushes and then refill and have 2 solid more. not to say i haven't had some great 3 plus flushes. but i don't like waiting around when i know the first two can be solid. but, if you have space and aren't in a hurry, then there is nothing wrong with getting late flushes. thats when the albinos start coming out of the wood work. ive seen a few over the years in late flushes but the timing was always off to take clones of it when they did appear.


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InvisibleGhatti
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Re: Flipped my sub after 3rd flush [Re: PinPornProducer]
    #21100381 - 01/11/15 08:25 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

I never claimed to be able to prove it because we've been arguing about this literally for 7 years that I know of here and even with an isolate its very difficult to test accurately since to get max results from either scenario really requires using a gh and tub and than its a whole diff ballgame of variables.

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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: Flipped my sub after 3rd flush [Re: Ghatti]
    #21100395 - 01/11/15 08:30 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

the proof is in the fact that 360 deg fruiting doesnt up yields :shrug:

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InvisibleGhatti
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Re: Flipped my sub after 3rd flush [Re: spacechildo]
    #21100409 - 01/11/15 08:34 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Lol prove it.

I really doubt it does but still. I believe it would over 1 flush but not over the life of the sub.

Edited by Ghatti (01/11/15 08:35 AM)

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