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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
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Pills make you feel good.
#21088239 - 01/08/15 04:23 PM (9 years, 4 months ago) |
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Now isn't that interesting? Pills can make you feel good and feel all is right with the world even if only temporarily.
I made the comment in another thread that our brains/bodies naturally release chemicals that make us feel good. But when the balance is upset and there are not enough of those chemicals we can feel bad. And why do we feel "bad"? My latest suspicion is that we feel bad because world is bad. In the sense of being ultimately uncomfortable or unrewarding or downright ugly if you're a sensitive type. Violent, competitive, with lots of survival issues and disease processes and on and on. This life isn't very pleasant and so our brain releases chemicals to buffer the blow of reality. Just like pills do.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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White Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
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Re: Pills make you feel good. [Re: Icelander] 2
#21088296 - 01/08/15 04:35 PM (9 years, 4 months ago) |
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we feel bad because chems tell us to feel bad
to me it doesn't follow that the world is bad because we can experience both good and bad states based on chemistry. id say it shows that the world can appear both good and bad to humans.
Edited by White Beard (01/08/15 04:45 PM)
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
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Re: Pills make you feel good. [Re: Icelander]
#21088305 - 01/08/15 04:36 PM (9 years, 4 months ago) |
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I hear ya man, and I think I often do what I know will cause said release of chemicals - be productive (dopamine), exercise (endorphins), be with loved ones (serotonin), psychedelics, stimulants, etc.
Cause you're right IMO - the more I look into it, the more I feel that the world is 'bad' - for humans, at least.
Coping strategies?
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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Diploid
Cuban



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Re: Pills make you feel good. [Re: Icelander] 2
#21088352 - 01/08/15 04:42 PM (9 years, 4 months ago) |
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I think something a lot of people miss is that not everyone is the same. How one person feels baseline is different from another. I know people who are morning-persons, always full of energy, and feel great even if they don't eat well or take care of themselves and weigh 250#. They pop out of bed in the morning like a little kid rearing to go. Others have to drag themselves out of bed even after a good night's sleep, and these people can only achieve the morning-person's level of feel good on rare occasion unless they "fix" themselves with some chemical.
This is something like a chef insisting that you must never add salt to your food because he already salted it perfectly. Well, if my tongue, nervous system, and brain perceive saltiness exactly the same way as the chef, I would agree. But tongues are different as are our baseline feel good state.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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saintdextro
Entheogen psychonaut


Registered: 01/03/15
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Re: Pills make you feel good. [Re: Diploid]
#21088510 - 01/08/15 05:11 PM (9 years, 4 months ago) |
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Just like the buddha's core teaching "life is suffering". At least he gives us hope, if not the answer to it...
As far as jumping out of bed with energy I couldn't do that since I was ten, now at 27 and a handful of anti-depressants it takes a lot outta me to get going, I'm just plain lazy I guess.
-------------------- "He who finds peace and joy And radiance within himself That man becomes one with God And vanishes into God's bliss." -Bhagavad Gita, 5.24 One 21 - Building Better Bombs One 21 - Pacified One 21 - Two Sides Is Fine "Respectability is a cloak for the hypocrite" - Jiddu Krishnamurti
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

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Re: Pills make you feel good. [Re: saintdextro]
#21088546 - 01/08/15 05:17 PM (9 years, 4 months ago) |
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I think we're all a little lazy at heart - at least those I know well enough to have discussed the subject with..
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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asterical
despondent optimist


Registered: 09/13/14
Posts: 60
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Maybe we feel bad cos we don't have enough pills?
Or maybe we only feel bad since we've developed the brain capacity to do so. The chemicals just seem like survival incentives - "go procreate and i'll give you a fat bag of oxytocin... if you'll excuse the pun."
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: Pills make you feel good. [Re: White Beard]
#21088797 - 01/08/15 06:10 PM (9 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
White Beard said: we feel bad because chems tell us to feel bad
to me it doesn't follow that the world is bad because we can experience both good and bad states based on chemistry. id say it shows that the world can appear both good and bad to humans.
Why would it ever appear bad if it isn't? The chems buffer the actually realities we face.
If you didn't experience the chemicals for fear you'd have no DA.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Quote:
Jokeshopbeard said: I think we're all a little lazy at heart - at least those I know well enough to have discussed the subject with..
Being lazy is a plus in many situations.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

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Re: Pills make you feel good. [Re: Icelander] 1
#21088876 - 01/08/15 06:32 PM (9 years, 4 months ago) |
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How so Ice?
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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White Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
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Re: Pills make you feel good. [Re: Icelander] 2
#21089074 - 01/08/15 07:02 PM (9 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
White Beard said: we feel bad because chems tell us to feel bad
to me it doesn't follow that the world is bad because we can experience both good and bad states based on chemistry. id say it shows that the world can appear both good and bad to humans.
Why would it ever appear bad if it isn't? The chems buffer the actually realities we face.
why would it ever appear good if it isn't?
Quote:
Icelander said: If you didn't experience the chemicals for fear you'd have no DA.
Right, so fear is based on chemistry just as happiness is based on chemistry. I don't see how one is more real than the other. Seems to me everything we experience is based on chemistry, so if the chem wasn't there, there would be no reality to buffer.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
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Quote:
Jokeshopbeard said: How so Ice?
It conserves energy. My dogs like to be lazy, it's safer and easier having me do the hunting.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Hobozen


Registered: 11/03/11
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Re: Pills make you feel good. [Re: White Beard] 1
#21089968 - 01/08/15 09:32 PM (9 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
White Beard said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
White Beard said: we feel bad because chems tell us to feel bad
to me it doesn't follow that the world is bad because we can experience both good and bad states based on chemistry. id say it shows that the world can appear both good and bad to humans.
Why would it ever appear bad if it isn't? The chems buffer the actually realities we face.
why would it ever appear good if it isn't?
Quote:
Icelander said: If you didn't experience the chemicals for fear you'd have no DA.
Right, so fear is based on chemistry just as happiness is based on chemistry. I don't see how one is more real than the other. Seems to me everything we experience is based on chemistry, so if the chem wasn't there, there would be no reality to buffer.
balance
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White Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
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Re: Pills make you feel good. [Re: Hobozen]
#21090226 - 01/08/15 10:36 PM (9 years, 4 months ago) |
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Lakefingers
Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,440
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Re: Pills make you feel good. *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
#21090534 - 01/09/15 12:11 AM (9 years, 4 months ago) |
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Post deleted by Lakefingers
Reason for deletion: No reason.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,485
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Re: Pills make you feel good. [Re: Lakefingers]
#21091012 - 01/09/15 04:27 AM (9 years, 4 months ago) |
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can we get to the feeling part of feeling good? what is feeling?
my (derivative) analysis is that there are only 3 feelings: PAIN neutral PLEASURE.
they are atomic in the sense that you can have multiple and mixed feelings connected with ideas and experiences: for example
- an experience at a picnic table eating a sandwich in the shade with pleasurable taste (of peanutbutter and jam) was one atomic pleasure experience
- an experience of falling over a tree root and breaking my leg with intense pain and tears was a an atomic pain experience
- an experience of sitting in school watching the teacher writing something was a neutral experience (no pain or pleasure)
these may mix together in my mind to greater or lesser degrees when I come upon an old tree in the park, but the strongest one will dominate and characterize the new momentary experience as having a recollection of PAIN, Neurtral or PLEASURE. And, since these are memories of feelings and not current body feelings, I would call this an EMOTIONAL moment if it had the feeling PAIN, Neurtral or PLEASURE from memory.
so two versions of feelings of three kinds can fill the mind, ie. actual body feelings (P/N/P) and memories of body feelings (EMOTIONS).
PILLS/ chemistry can affect sensation in different ways, such as anaesthetically or to intensify, and they can affect mental processing (the whole psyciatric and psychedelic range of effects)
I find most of the feel good of chemistry, or technically the Pleasurable side of chemistry in feeling is actually a reduction of PAIN, or an enhancement of imagination.
Another class of effects termed Euphoria, is harder to come to grips with, but I think it has less pain, some enhancement of imagination and accelleration of blood flow to key areas of the body that can be considered exhilliarating when stimulated.
As regards EMOTIONS, chemistry usually operates by reducing memory function so that emotions (which are often painful) are less likely.
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Lakefingers
Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,440
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Re: Pills make you feel good. *DELETED* [Re: redgreenvines]
#21091049 - 01/09/15 04:45 AM (9 years, 4 months ago) |
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Post deleted by Lakefingers
Reason for deletion: Reason.
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
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Re: Pills make you feel good. [Re: Lakefingers]
#21091113 - 01/09/15 05:27 AM (9 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Lakefingers said: I've read your analysis three times and I think you’re trying to reinvent the wheel.
Read it one more time and it's a car.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Pills make you feel good. [Re: White Beard]
#21091205 - 01/09/15 06:35 AM (9 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
White Beard said:

I don't think I said that fear was more real than happiness. I'm just noticing that life is mostly struggle for survival. That in itself is not enough to make life valuable to us overall. So the brain helps us out by chems to make things tolerable. Kind of like how the body can go into shock to ease the pains of dying.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: Pills make you feel good. [Re: Lakefingers]
#21091209 - 01/09/15 06:38 AM (9 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Lakefingers said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
White Beard said: we feel bad because chems tell us to feel bad
to me it doesn't follow that the world is bad because we can experience both good and bad states based on chemistry. id say it shows that the world can appear both good and bad to humans.
Why would it ever appear bad if it isn't? The chems buffer the actually realities we face.
Human perspective is not equivalent to mood.
"Bad" is a value attached to "the world." You haven't shown a necessary connection between "bad" and "the world."
Quote:
Icelander said: If you didn't experience the chemicals for fear you'd have no DA.
This doesn't prove that the world is wrong. Your problem is in the human brain.
Maybe, but when you start to add up the pain vs pleasure ratio of animal life it starts to look a little lopsided. But of course you have to get beyond any disney type beliefs about nature. Very few humans really take a hard look at how things survive likely due to our own DA.
But yes the problem will always be within our brains cause imo it's what we are.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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