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 Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
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 shroomzi8
king of the wild fronteer
Registered: 10/04/10
Posts: 1,764
Loc: Valencia, Spain 
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
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 Re: HOW TO MAKE A TUB-IN-TUB INCUBATOR FOR LESS THAN £30  [Re: LeopardMan]
#21069670 - 01/05/15 05:13 AM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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OP was clearly unaware of that, so I just posted this idea in order for him to understand that there are many reasons why most seasoned growers will advise against incubators and higher temperatures.
It is not irrelevant at all, because many new growers (see above) are inclined to think that 28C is the best temperature for cubes.
actually i got my info from Total and Critic.(and personal experimentaiton) I also mentioned id set my thermostat to 24C
i think 28 is way too high.
Edited by shroomzi8 (01/05/15 05:20 AM)
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 wildernessjunkie
Reshitivest
Registered: 06/13/10
Posts: 8,118
Loc: HTTP 404 Not Found
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Re: HOW TO MAKE A TUB-IN-TUB INCUBATOR FOR LESS THAN £30 [Re: LeopardMan]
#21069684 - 01/05/15 05:24 AM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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LM has been around the block a couple of times now. There's a reason he has a TC tag. The info he is giving is right on the money.
While "room tempurature" might be a bit subjective, take this into account. I've had agar plates form pins while in the refrigerator. Cold temps slow things down, but they don't stop the process.
Quote:
as far as higher temp = higher chance of contam isnt it true that if you sterlazied the jars in the first place you shouldn't even worry about that??
No. The typical sterilization time and temp we use as cultivators does not completely sterilize. It does kill off the vast majority of contaminants and open a window of opportunity for us to inoculate and create favorable conditions for a preferred organism to grow though. Left long enough, your "sterile" jar will go funky.
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bodhisatta  
Smurf real estate agent
Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,891
Loc: Milky way
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Re: HOW TO MAKE A TUB-IN-TUB INCUBATOR FOR LESS THAN £30 [Re: wildernessjunkie]
#21069694 - 01/05/15 05:32 AM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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A lot of the misinformation comes from the fact that paul had cubensis colonization temperatures all wrong in The Mushroom Cultivator when it was published in 1984 before half of you guys were born.
since then that chart has been proven wrong but the info still sticks from TMC for whatever reason.
At 75F cubes grow as fast as they ever will. From 75-81/82F they grow the same speed but at temps above 81/82 the growth speed slows dramatically.
82F internal jar temperature stalls growth. incubators set to 80F can easily have a jar reach 82F internally.
if your jars take 8 weeks at 65F you probably didn't use enough inoculate or there's some other problem.
like I said I cultivated a whole lot in lower 60's and if anything it took a few days extra not a whole week or anything.
also as everyone else said, sterilization isn't complete even at 2 hours 15psi@250F. you're sterilizing for a window to colonize. it's effective sterilization but not full sterilization, but we obviously don't call it sanitation.
Edited by Trusted cuItivator (01/05/15 05:34 AM)
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LeopardMan
Constantly changing
Registered: 09/21/09
Posts: 5,467
Loc: A tree house
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Re: HOW TO MAKE A TUB-IN-TUB INCUBATOR FOR LESS THAN £30 [Re: bodhisatta]
#21069699 - 01/05/15 05:37 AM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
wildernessjunkie said:
While "room tempurature" might be a bit subjective, take this into account. I've had agar plates form pins while in the refrigerator. Cold temps slow things down, but they don't stop the process.
Quote:
as far as higher temp = higher chance of contam isnt it true that if you sterlazied the jars in the first place you shouldn't even worry about that??
No. The typical sterilization time and temp we use as cultivators does not completely sterilize. It does kill off the vast majority of contaminants and open a window of opportunity for us to inoculate and create favorable conditions for a preferred organism to grow though. Left long enough, your "sterile" jar will go funky.
Quote:
bodhisatta said:
A lot of the misinformation comes from the fact that paul had cubensis colonization temperatures all wrong in The Mushroom Cultivator when it was published in 1984 before half of you guys were born.
since then that chart has been proven wrong but the info still sticks from TMC for whatever reason.
At 75F cubes grow as fast as they ever will. From 75-81/82F they grow the same speed but at temps above 81/82 the growth speed slows dramatically.
82F internal jar temperature stalls growth. incubators set to 80F can easily have a jar reach 82F internally.
if your jars take 8 weeks at 65F you probably didn't use enough inoculate or there's some other problem.
like I said I cultivated a whole lot in lower 60's and if anything it took a few days extra not a whole week or anything.
also as everyone else said, sterilization isn't complete even at 2 hours 15psi@250F. you're sterilizing for a window to colonize. it's effective sterilization but not full sterilization, but we obviously don't call it sanitation.
 These two guys know what they are talking about.
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You have to die a few times before you can really live.
-Charles Bukowski-
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shroomzi8
king of the wild fronteer
Registered: 10/04/10
Posts: 1,764
Loc: Valencia, Spain
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
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Re: HOW TO MAKE A TUB-IN-TUB INCUBATOR FOR LESS THAN £30 [Re: bodhisatta]
#21069719 - 01/05/15 05:40 AM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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quote :"At 75F cubes grow as fast as they ever will."
which is why i set my therm to 24C (75F= 23.888C)
quote : "A lot of the misinformation comes from the fact that paul had cubensis colonization temperatures all wrong in The Mushroom Cultivator when it was published in 1984 before half of you guys were born. "
 you make a very good point Bodhisatta 
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blackdust
Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 8,327
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Re: HOW TO MAKE A TUB-IN-TUB INCUBATOR FOR LESS THAN £30 [Re: shroomzi8]
#21069883 - 01/05/15 06:56 AM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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I have a question.
Do we want the room temperature to be 75F or do we want the internal temp of the spawn medium to be 75F. Their is a huge difference.
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shroomzi8
king of the wild fronteer
Registered: 10/04/10
Posts: 1,764
Loc: Valencia, Spain
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
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Re: HOW TO MAKE A TUB-IN-TUB INCUBATOR FOR LESS THAN £30 [Re: blackdust]
#21069886 - 01/05/15 06:58 AM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
blackdust said:
I have a question.
Do we want the room temperature to be 75F or do we want the internal temp of the spawn medium to be 75F. Their is a huge difference.
spawn.
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Mr. Alien
I will abduct andprobe your anus
Registered: 01/14/14
Posts: 6,290
Loc: Star Wars Galaxy
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Re: HOW TO MAKE A TUB-IN-TUB INCUBATOR FOR LESS THAN £30 [Re: shroomzi8]
#21069890 - 01/05/15 07:00 AM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Second paragraph of the Bible lol.
*And I've been trying to correct that disinformation for years. It's all based on a chart somebody mailed
to stamets many years ago showing 86F to be the peak temperature for growth of cubensis on a petri dish,
and everybody just accepts it as though Moses carried it down from the mountain on a tablet of stone.
However, every single experiment I did to try to duplicate that with extremely accurate temperature
monitoring was unable to verify that bogus 86F figure. What I have repeatedly found regardless of strain is
that cubensis colonization remains rather flat from about 75F through 81F. Beginning at 83F, the rate of
growth falls off sharply. By 86F, growth has slowed down nearly 50% what it was between 75f and 81F.
These experiments were conducted on petri dishes that produce little to no heat because of the very thin layer
of mycelium. In jars, up to several degrees of heat is produced by the colonizing mycelium; so definitely don't
go over 80F to 81F if you're looking for maximum rate of growth. Furthermore, bacteria and thermophilic
molds such as Mucor, the black pin mold are stimulated by higher temperatures. Therefore using an
incubator set to 86F is certainly favoring bacteria and molds, while slowing down mushroom mycelium
growth. Below is a picture of one of my colonization shelves. It sits in my bedroom at normal room
temperature and quart jars of rye berries colonize fully in ten days, and pf jars colonize fully in 14 to 21
days, but usually closer to 14. How often do we see posts where people have incubators set at 86F, and
they're asking why their jars aren't colonized after four to five weeks, and they have large spots of yellow
liquid forming? The liquid is metabolites that the mycelium secretes in response to stress, usually
from competitor molds and/or bacteria. What has happened, is they've slowed down the mycelium
while stimulating the competitors. COLONIZATION
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blackdust
Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 8,327
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Re: HOW TO MAKE A TUB-IN-TUB INCUBATOR FOR LESS THAN £30 [Re: shroomzi8]
#21069897 - 01/05/15 07:04 AM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
shroomzi8 said:
Quote:
blackdust said:
I have a question.
Do we want the room temperature to be 75F or do we want the internal temp of the spawn medium to be 75F. Their is a huge difference.
spawn.
I like your incubator. How are you measuring your spawn medium temps?
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Mr. Alien
I will abduct andprobe your anus
Registered: 01/14/14
Posts: 6,290
Loc: Star Wars Galaxy
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Re: HOW TO MAKE A TUB-IN-TUB INCUBATOR FOR LESS THAN £30 [Re: bodhisatta]
#21069920 - 01/05/15 07:20 AM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said:
A lot of the misinformation comes from the fact that paul had cubensis colonization temperatures all wrong in The Mushroom Cultivator when it was published in 1984 before half of you guys were born.
Not so wrong he was close enough ... he indicates substrate temperature rather than incubator temperature. Mycelium generates heat, so 84º minus 5º that myc can generate max inside the jar = he was incubating at 79ºF(+/-).  more or less our temp ranges (65-80).
Quote:
Spawn Run:
Substrate Temperature: 84 - 86°F / 28.8 - 30°C
Edited by Mr. Alien (01/05/15 07:37 AM)
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LeopardMan
Constantly changing
Registered: 09/21/09
Posts: 5,467
Loc: A tree house
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Re: HOW TO MAKE A TUB-IN-TUB INCUBATOR FOR LESS THAN £30 [Re: Mr. Alien]
#21069983 - 01/05/15 07:43 AM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ext temps:
80F-90F you are asking for troubles.
70F-80F perfect for both colonization and fruiting.
60F-70F is good, and your mushrooms will grow strong.
50F-60F is enough, but both colonization and fruiting will slow down.
40F-50F is extreme, but cubes will grow nonetheless.
Let's not overcomplicate things 
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You have to die a few times before you can really live.
-Charles Bukowski-
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shroomzi8
king of the wild fronteer
Registered: 10/04/10
Posts: 1,764
Loc: Valencia, Spain
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
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Re: HOW TO MAKE A TUB-IN-TUB INCUBATOR FOR LESS THAN £30 [Re: blackdust]
#21070092 - 01/05/15 08:23 AM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
blackdust said:
Quote:
shroomzi8 said:
Quote:
blackdust said:
I have a question.
Do we want the room temperature to be 75F or do we want the internal temp of the spawn medium to be 75F. Their is a huge difference.
spawn.
I like your incubator. How are you measuring your spawn medium temps?
i actually built it to incubate LC's for edible mushrooms and for germinating cactus seeds. if i needed to measure spawn temps i have a thermometer with a probe.
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Mr. Alien
I will abduct andprobe your anus
Registered: 01/14/14
Posts: 6,290
Loc: Star Wars Galaxy
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Re: HOW TO MAKE A TUB-IN-TUB INCUBATOR FOR LESS THAN £30 [Re: LeopardMan]
#21070094 - 01/05/15 08:23 AM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
LeopardMan said:
Ext temps:
80F-90F you are asking for troubles.
70F-80F perfect for both colonization and fruiting.
60F-70F is good, and your mushrooms will grow strong.
50F-60F is enough, but both colonization and fruiting will slow down.
40F-50F is extreme, but cubes will grow nonetheless.
Let's not overcomplicate things
Even more easier.
40-80 will grow
80> bad idea.
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LeopardMan
Constantly changing
Registered: 09/21/09
Posts: 5,467
Loc: A tree house
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Re: HOW TO MAKE A TUB-IN-TUB INCUBATOR FOR LESS THAN £30 [Re: Mr. Alien]
#21070099 - 01/05/15 08:25 AM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mr. Alien said:
Quote:
LeopardMan said:
Ext temps:
80F-90F you are asking for troubles.
70F-80F perfect for both colonization and fruiting.
60F-70F is good, and your mushrooms will grow strong.
50F-60F is enough, but both colonization and fruiting will slow down.
40F-50F is extreme, but cubes will grow nonetheless.
Let's not overcomplicate things
Even more easier.
40-80 will grow
80> bad idea.
Abridged version. I like it 
--------------------
You have to die a few times before you can really live.
-Charles Bukowski-
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blackdust
Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 8,327
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Re: HOW TO MAKE A TUB-IN-TUB INCUBATOR FOR LESS THAN £30 [Re: LeopardMan]
#21070123 - 01/05/15 08:33 AM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Lolz. Temperatures that are over 90F may do this.
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shroomzi8
king of the wild fronteer
Registered: 10/04/10
Posts: 1,764
Loc: Valencia, Spain
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
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Re: HOW TO MAKE A TUB-IN-TUB INCUBATOR FOR LESS THAN £30 [Re: blackdust]
#21070161 - 01/05/15 08:43 AM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
blackdust said:
Lolz. Temperatures that are over 90F may do this.
eeew... mucho myc piss 
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blackdust
Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 8,327
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Re: HOW TO MAKE A TUB-IN-TUB INCUBATOR FOR LESS THAN £30 [Re: shroomzi8]
#21070245 - 01/05/15 09:04 AM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
shroomzi8 said:
Quote:
blackdust said:
Lolz. Temperatures that are over 90F may do this.
eeew... mucho myc piss
NO!!!! metabolites. know what they are.
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shroomzi8
king of the wild fronteer
Registered: 10/04/10
Posts: 1,764
Loc: Valencia, Spain
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
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Re: HOW TO MAKE A TUB-IN-TUB INCUBATOR FOR LESS THAN £30 [Re: blackdust]
#21070260 - 01/05/15 09:07 AM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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standing corrected. is there a difference?
as you can tell i dont grow many mushrooms, im more of a cactus man with my toe in the water/piss/metabolites
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blackdust
Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 8,327
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Re: HOW TO MAKE A TUB-IN-TUB INCUBATOR FOR LESS THAN £30 [Re: shroomzi8]
#21070292 - 01/05/15 09:13 AM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
shroomzi8 said:
standing corrected. is there a difference?
as you can tell i dont grow many mushrooms, im more of a cactus man with my toe in the water/piss/metabolites
No. They mean the same. lolz.
your cactus looks beautiful. I hope to be able to get one like that some day.
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shroomzi8
king of the wild fronteer
Registered: 10/04/10
Posts: 1,764
Loc: Valencia, Spain
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
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Re: HOW TO MAKE A TUB-IN-TUB INCUBATOR FOR LESS THAN £30 [Re: blackdust]
#21070320 - 01/05/15 09:22 AM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
blackdust said:
Quote:
shroomzi8 said:
standing corrected. is there a difference?
as you can tell i dont grow many mushrooms, im more of a cactus man with my toe in the water/piss/metabolites
No. They mean the same. lolz.
your cactus looks beautiful. I hope to be able to get one like that some day.
you fucker! you had me going there!  
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