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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: How Many Of You Are Happy About Obama Going Around Congress? [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #21124311 - 01/15/15 11:14 AM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Most will agree the defaulter is in the wrong. They may not be an asshole, they may have gotten ill, lost their job and got divorced, all in the same year. Or whatever. But the fact remains that they didn't meet their obligations.

The banks in many cases misrepresented mortgages they resold, took borrowers that did not meet minimum underwriting standards and sometimes even helped them falsify applications. Banks are not the good guys here either. They stuck the govt with bad paper or went under holding the bad paper and we bailed them out. Banks hurt the economy more so than the borrowers some of which were crooks but some were given loans they never should have gotten.

To get back to the original theme of the thread, obumble violated the constitution and should be impeached and imprisoned. How long a sentence should he get?


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: How Many Of You Are Happy About Obama Going Around Congress? [Re: Webster10] * 1
    #21124346 - 01/15/15 11:27 AM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Webster10 said:
I seriously doubt anyone in this thread who thinks the defaulter isn't the asshole would be forgiving if they lent someone money and the person didn't pay them back.



If I loaned $1000 to a homeless guy in a park who said he'd pay me back, and he never did, sure I'd be upset.  But my acquaintances would tell me that I was an idiot.  Now, if I sold that loan to someone else telling them it's worth $1,000 plus interest, and not telling them a homeless guy owes the money, then I'm an asshole.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (01/15/15 12:01 PM)


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: How Many Of You Are Happy About Obama Going Around Congress? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21124427 - 01/15/15 12:04 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Most will agree the defaulter is in the wrong.

Banks are not the good guys here either.



So given that both sides were guilty, the next question is how to prevent another mortgage crisis?

The general public isn't getting any smarter, and banks aren't getting any less greedy.  I see only one solution - Government regulation.  Does anyone have any other working solutions that would prevent another crisis?


--------------------
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Re: How Many Of You Are Happy About Obama Going Around Congress? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21124460 - 01/15/15 12:20 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

I have lent money and not been paid back, it's a bitch. I still stand by my original statement. Let's see you plan 30 years into the future Webster, hope you don't get cancer.


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OfflineWebster10
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Re: How Many Of You Are Happy About Obama Going Around Congress? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21124497 - 01/15/15 12:33 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Webster10 said:
I seriously doubt anyone in this thread who thinks the defaulter isn't the asshole would be forgiving if they lent someone money and the person didn't pay them back.



If I loaned $1000 to a homeless guy in a park who said he'd pay me back, and he never did, sure I'd be upset.  But my acquaintances would tell me that I was an idiot.  Now, if I sold that loan to someone else telling them it's worth $1,000 plus interest, and not telling them a homeless guy owes the money, then I'm an asshole.



They had the option to not buy the loan from you, didn't they? They chose to buy it. You're not forcing them to buy it.

EDIT: Also, the homeless man example is quite the exaggeration. In that situation, I'm counting one asshole, the homeless guy. If he had never taken the loan and not paid it back, would there be any loan for you to sell to the unsuspecting customer?


--------------------
:leaf: :usa:


Edited by Webster10 (01/15/15 12:41 PM)


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OfflineWebster10
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Re: How Many Of You Are Happy About Obama Going Around Congress? [Re: shroom_sensai]
    #21124505 - 01/15/15 12:38 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

shroom_sensai said:
I have lent money and not been paid back, it's a bitch. I still stand by my original statement. Let's see you plan 30 years into the future Webster, hope you don't get cancer.



The thing is, I don't know what will happen. That's why I'm not borrowing a ton of money.

Say I borrow $1,000 from you, and plan to pay you back by running a race. A day after, I get hit by a car, I break both my legs. Me breaking my legs wasn't my fault, but not paying back the loan is. By borrowing money, I implied I would be capable of paying it back. I didn't know this for sure, I took the risk, I lost. I am the asshole.


--------------------
:leaf: :usa:


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: How Many Of You Are Happy About Obama Going Around Congress? [Re: Enlil]
    #21124601 - 01/15/15 01:08 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Then you may one day be a scumbag...any of us could be.  Not everything in life is a matter of choice. 

You really have reached the cliché point where you think that your success in life is completely because of the choices you've made and that everyone else could have made the same choices and have what you have.  That's fiction.  In real life, luck plays a major part, and one can make all the right decisions and still end up unable to repay a debt.

That doesn't make them scumbags.




I am going to say this slowly for the legal class.  Anybody  who    borrows  money    and    doesn't    pay    it    back    is    a    scumbag.

I do not care why you don't pay it back.  You are stealing.  If I lend you money and some misfortune befalls you why should the consequences of that misfortune accrue to me?  I didn't cause your misfortune and in fact did you a favor.  Why should I be punished for being a good guy?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: How Many Of You Are Happy About Obama Going Around Congress? [Re: Webster10]
    #21124611 - 01/15/15 01:10 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Webster10 said:
Quote:

shroom_sensai said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Then you may one day be a scumbag...any of us could be.  Not everything in life is a matter of choice. 

You really have reached the cliché point where you think that your success in life is completely because of the choices you've made and that everyone else could have made the same choices and have what you have.  That's fiction.  In real life, luck plays a major part, and one can make all the right decisions and still end up unable to repay a debt.

That doesn't make them scumbags.




Absolutely right Enlil, life is unpredictable especially if you take out a 30 year mortgage loan. Say you're in 10 years then you break a leg. Go 6 months without work while you heal, and suddenly you're in default. Doesn't sound like a scumbag to me.







I got a radical idea.  SELL THE FUCKING HOUSE!
Quote:


A capable adult can and should think into the future about all the possibilities of what could happen. If they think the risk they are taking is too big, they shouldn't have taken it. Ignorance and lack of planning isn't an excuse to borrow money and not pay it back. Imagine you loan someone $1,000. I don't know about you, but if someone doesn't pay that back, for whatever reason, they are an asshole in my opinion.

I seriously doubt anyone in this thread who thinks the defaulter isn't the asshole would be forgiving if they lent someone money and the person didn't pay them back.




You are quite correct.  All of these bum apologists are not the people getting beat on a bad debt.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: How Many Of You Are Happy About Obama Going Around Congress? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21124623 - 01/15/15 01:14 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Most will agree the defaulter is in the wrong. They may not be an asshole, they may have gotten ill, lost their job and got divorced, all in the same year. Or whatever. But the fact remains that they didn't meet their obligations.

The banks in many cases misrepresented mortgages they resold, took borrowers that did not meet minimum underwriting standards and sometimes even helped them falsify applications. Banks are not the good guys here either. They stuck the govt with bad paper or went under holding the bad paper and we bailed them out. Banks hurt the economy more so than the borrowers some of which were crooks but some were given loans they never should have gotten.

To get back to the original theme of the thread, obumble violated the constitution and should be impeached and imprisoned. How long a sentence should he get?



Any fraud the mortgage writers perpetrated on the investors/purchasers of their notes is irrelevant to the fact that the borrowers who defaulted were scumbags.  Then there is the fact that the buyers of said mortgages failed to perform their due diligence.  Let us not forget that Fannie and Freddie are run by professional money people


The simple fact of that matter is that the government engaged in a social engineering experiment that went very wrong


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: How Many Of You Are Happy About Obama Going Around Congress? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21124693 - 01/15/15 01:35 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
All of these bum apologists are not the people getting beat on a bad debt.



Please...I have over $150k in accounts receivable that I'll never collect.


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OfflineWebster10
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Re: How Many Of You Are Happy About Obama Going Around Congress? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21124718 - 01/15/15 01:43 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Most will agree the defaulter is in the wrong.

Banks are not the good guys here either.



So given that both sides were guilty, the next question is how to prevent another mortgage crisis?

The general public isn't getting any smarter, and banks aren't getting any less greedy.  I see only one solution - Government regulation.  Does anyone have any other working solutions that would prevent another crisis?



Don't bail them out next time :flowstone:


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:leaf: :usa:


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: How Many Of You Are Happy About Obama Going Around Congress? [Re: Webster10]
    #21124813 - 01/15/15 02:15 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Webster10 said:
They had the option to not buy the loan from you, didn't they? They chose to buy it. You're not forcing them to buy it.



Yes, but I misrepresented the loan by saying it was safe, and not that it was to a homeless guy.  There should be at least be a law saying I can't misrepresent what I'm reselling, don't you think?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: How Many Of You Are Happy About Obama Going Around Congress? [Re: Enlil]
    #21124974 - 01/15/15 03:09 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
All of these bum apologists are not the people getting beat on a bad debt.



Please...I have over $150k in accounts receivable that I'll never collect.




Don't you feel violated? 

I do not have $150,000 in accounts receivable because I am not an idiot.  The most anybody ever beat me for was less than a grand.  The one time i went to court I kicked ass.  The lawyer got most of the money but the deadbeat got fucked double.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: How Many Of You Are Happy About Obama Going Around Congress? [Re: Webster10]
    #21124979 - 01/15/15 03:10 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Webster10 said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Most will agree the defaulter is in the wrong.

Banks are not the good guys here either.



So given that both sides were guilty, the next question is how to prevent another mortgage crisis?

The general public isn't getting any smarter, and banks aren't getting any less greedy.  I see only one solution - Government regulation.  Does anyone have any other working solutions that would prevent another crisis?



Don't bail them out next time :flowstone:



That was mostly an over reaction anyway.  The bank that was in real trouble was the bank of fannie and freddie.  It shouldn't exist


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: How Many Of You Are Happy About Obama Going Around Congress? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21124986 - 01/15/15 03:13 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Webster10 said:
They had the option to not buy the loan from you, didn't they? They chose to buy it. You're not forcing them to buy it.



Yes, but I misrepresented the loan by saying it was safe, and not that it was to a homeless guy.  There should be at least be a law saying I can't misrepresent what I'm reselling, don't you think?




The people who bought the paper were financial professionals.  Have you ever heard of the phrases "due diligence" and "caveat emptor"?  You complain that the banks were remiss in not performing due diligence on the buyers but you excuse the investors who bought the loan packages from the same scrutiny.  :flowstone:


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: How Many Of You Are Happy About Obama Going Around Congress? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21125069 - 01/15/15 03:32 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

>Any fraud the mortgage writers perpetrated on the investors/purchasers of their notes is irrelevant to the fact that the borrowers who defaulted were scumbags.

Many of them were, however having a series of unexpected life events does not make one a scumbag. I reserve that term for those who committed fraud in some way, like on the so called liar loans.

>The people who bought the paper were financial professionals.  Have you ever heard of the phrases "due diligence" and "caveat emptor"?

They were deceived by fraudulent appraisals and were pressured by the govt to buy the loans. The govt is also one of the bad guys here via stupid policies.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Re: How Many Of You Are Happy About Obama Going Around Congress? [Re: zappaisgod] * 1
    #21125093 - 01/15/15 03:37 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:

I do not have $150,000 in accounts receivable because I am not an idiot. 



I see, so by your logic, the banks are idiots for making the loans...To recap:

Banks=idiots
Defaulters=scumbags


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: How Many Of You Are Happy About Obama Going Around Congress? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21125302 - 01/15/15 04:33 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
>Any fraud the mortgage writers perpetrated on the investors/purchasers of their notes is irrelevant to the fact that the borrowers who defaulted were scumbags.

Many of them were, however having a series of unexpected life events does not make one a scumbag. I reserve that term for those who committed fraud in some way, like on the so called liar loans.




You would have to have a real serious run of bad luck for me to excuse you.  Losing a job does not count.  Cancer might.  If you can't pay the mortgage sell the house.  That's it.  This doesn't happen overnight and anybody can sell a house in no more than 6 months.
Quote:



>The people who bought the paper were financial professionals.  Have you ever heard of the phrases "due diligence" and "caveat emptor"?

They were deceived by fraudulent appraisals and were pressured by the govt to buy the loans. The govt is also one of the bad guys here via stupid policies.




:picard:Fannie and freddie ARE the government.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: How Many Of You Are Happy About Obama Going Around Congress? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21125587 - 01/15/15 05:54 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

>Fannie and freddie ARE the government.

No, actually they are not. They are controlled by the govt which is a big difference. The govt in the form of bush and then obumble pressured them to buy up the loans with little oversight. You could say they were ordered to but they have a way of keeping it unwritten many times.

>You would have to have a real serious run of bad luck for me to excuse you.

I have never asked for your excusing. When I buy a house I do it with cash. I do think the ones who did not pay were in the wrong, I said so several times. I merely object to lumping everyone into the category of "scumbag" who was unable to pay. Not everyone has rich relatives you know. Not everyone is a trustifarian.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: How Many Of You Are Happy About Obama Going Around Congress? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21125628 - 01/15/15 06:02 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
>Fannie and freddie ARE the government.

No, actually they are not. They are controlled by the govt which is a big difference. The govt in the form of bush and then obumble pressured them to buy up the loans with little oversight. You could say they were ordered to but they have a way of keeping it unwritten many times.




:picard: You are a walking talking face palm.  They are controlled by the government but they aren't part of it?  And it is well known that they were directed to increase their share of the market.  By the government.  The Clinton administration and HUD, run by Andrew Cuomo.
Quote:



>You would have to have a real serious run of bad luck for me to excuse you.:picard:

I have never asked for your excusing.




Unless you beat somebody for money that is moot.
Quote:

When I buy a house I do it with cash. I do think the ones who did not pay were in the wrong, I said so several times. I merely object to lumping everyone into the category of "scumbag" who was unable to pay. Not everyone has rich relatives you know. Not everyone is a trustifarian.




I don't give a fuck if anybody had rich relatives like you.  It is irrelevant.  Borrow money, pay it back or you are scum.  Simple.


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