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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: How Many Of You Are Happy About Obama Going Around Congress? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21120265 - 01/14/15 02:22 PM (6 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
The government bought the mortgages themselves.  I do not give a shit about derivatives.




Whether you "give a shit" about the derivatives or not, THAT'S what crashed the economy, THAT'S what CRomnibus will put taxpayers on the hook for, and THAT'S what you've been defending this whole fucking thread.  Do you support CRomnibus, or don't you?

By the way. the Government bought the mortgages so the banks could lend more money, not because they thought it would be profitable.




derivatives did not collapse the economy.  Bums not repaying their loans did.
Quote:



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
If the people who borrowed money did what they were supposed to do, i.e. repay their loans, there would never have been a problem at all.  Derivatives, CDSs, hedges.  No problem.  Shitbags borrowing money they can't repay?  100% problem



Banks changing their lending standards was even more of a problem.  People who couldn't afford loans were talked into larger loans by banks so the banks could make a higher commission and then sell the loans to Main Street.  THAT was the underlying problem.




Talked into?  Are they not adults?  Should they be kept in sheltered workshops because they are too stupid to make their own decisions?  Fucking spare me.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: How Many Of You Are Happy About Obama Going Around Congress? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21120839 - 01/14/15 04:56 PM (6 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Whether you "give a shit" about the derivatives or not, THAT'S what crashed the economy, THAT'S what CRomnibus will put taxpayers on the hook for, and THAT'S what you've been defending this whole fucking thread.  Do you support CRomnibus, or don't you?




derivatives did not collapse the economy.  Bums not repaying their loans did.



The AIG bailout was to cover derivatives losses.  If they didn't deal in derivatives, no bailout would have been required.


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: How Many Of You Are Happy About Obama Going Around Congress? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21120843 - 01/14/15 04:57 PM (6 years, 9 months ago)

If the bums didn't default on the loans no bailout necessary


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: How Many Of You Are Happy About Obama Going Around Congress? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21121005 - 01/14/15 05:39 PM (6 years, 9 months ago)

And if the banks hadn't made all the subprime non-CRA loans, no bailout necessary.  :flowstone:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: How Many Of You Are Happy About Obama Going Around Congress? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21121035 - 01/14/15 05:44 PM (6 years, 9 months ago)

If somebody borrows money and doesn't pay it back who is the asshole?  The lender or the borrower?  If the government encourages lending money to losers and then buys the paper who is the asshole?


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: How Many Of You Are Happy About Obama Going Around Congress? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21121238 - 01/14/15 06:28 PM (6 years, 9 months ago)

If
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
If somebody borrows money and doesn't pay it back who is the asshole?



If a bank loans money to someone it knows will struggle to pay it back, and then sells that loan to someone who doesn't know better in order to get rid of the risk, then the bank is the asshole.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: How Many Of You Are Happy About Obama Going Around Congress? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21121284 - 01/14/15 06:39 PM (6 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
If
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
If somebody borrows money and doesn't pay it back who is the asshole?



If a bank loans money to someone it knows will struggle to pay it back, and then sells that loan to someone who doesn't know better in order to get rid of the risk, then the bank is the asshole.




No.  The defaulter is always the asshole


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Offlineshroom_sensai
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Re: How Many Of You Are Happy About Obama Going Around Congress? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21121320 - 01/14/15 06:49 PM (6 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
If
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
If somebody borrows money and doesn't pay it back who is the asshole?



If a bank loans money to someone it knows will struggle to pay it back, and then sells that loan to someone who doesn't know better in order to get rid of the risk, then the bank is the asshole.




:whathesaid:


--------------------
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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: How Many Of You Are Happy About Obama Going Around Congress? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21121359 - 01/14/15 06:55 PM (6 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
No.  The defaulter is always the asshole



In your opinion, which matters not.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: How Many Of You Are Happy About Obama Going Around Congress? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21121407 - 01/14/15 07:04 PM (6 years, 9 months ago)

The defaulter is the asshole but the banks did wrong too. Its not like one side is an angel and the other side is the devil.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: How Many Of You Are Happy About Obama Going Around Congress? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21121414 - 01/14/15 07:05 PM (6 years, 9 months ago)

Fair enough.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: How Many Of You Are Happy About Obama Going Around Congress? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21121423 - 01/14/15 07:07 PM (6 years, 9 months ago)

No.  It is always the defaulter who is the asshole.  We are talking about adults here.  The contracts for the loans are in writing.  This isn't some "I wasn't told" bullshit.  Yes you were.  Your signature is on a contract


People who do not honor their contracts are scumbags.  The banks honored their part.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: How Many Of You Are Happy About Obama Going Around Congress? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21121451 - 01/14/15 07:12 PM (6 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
People who do not honor their contracts are scumbags.  The banks honored their part.



You know that's bullshit.  The banks sold their risky loans to Main Street, disguising them with high ratings.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: How Many Of You Are Happy About Obama Going Around Congress? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21121477 - 01/14/15 07:17 PM (6 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
No.  It is always the defaulter who is the asshole.  We are talking about adults here.  The contracts for the loans are in writing.  This isn't some "I wasn't told" bullshit.  Yes you were.  Your signature is on a contract


People who do not honor their contracts are scumbags.  The banks honored their part.



That's pretty much bullshit.  People default for all kinds of reasons that are out of their control.  You're way out of line with your sweeping generalizations.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: How Many Of You Are Happy About Obama Going Around Congress? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21122049 - 01/14/15 09:28 PM (6 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
People who do not honor their contracts are scumbags.  The banks honored their part.



You know that's bullshit.  The banks sold their risky loans to Main Street, disguising them with high ratings.




Main Street?  Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are Main Street?  Who knew?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: How Many Of You Are Happy About Obama Going Around Congress? [Re: Enlil]
    #21122060 - 01/14/15 09:30 PM (6 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
No.  It is always the defaulter who is the asshole.  We are talking about adults here.  The contracts for the loans are in writing.  This isn't some "I wasn't told" bullshit.  Yes you were.  Your signature is on a contract


People who do not honor their contracts are scumbags.  The banks honored their part.



That's pretty much bullshit.  People default for all kinds of reasons that are out of their control.  You're way out of line with your sweeping generalizations.



I do not care why they default.  Really, I don't give a fuck.  Anybody who borrows money and doesn't pay it back is a scumbag.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: How Many Of You Are Happy About Obama Going Around Congress? [Re: zappaisgod] * 1
    #21122104 - 01/14/15 09:35 PM (6 years, 9 months ago)

Then you may one day be a scumbag...any of us could be.  Not everything in life is a matter of choice. 

You really have reached the cliché point where you think that your success in life is completely because of the choices you've made and that everyone else could have made the same choices and have what you have.  That's fiction.  In real life, luck plays a major part, and one can make all the right decisions and still end up unable to repay a debt.

That doesn't make them scumbags.


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Offlineshroom_sensai
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Re: How Many Of You Are Happy About Obama Going Around Congress? [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #21123051 - 01/15/15 01:13 AM (6 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Then you may one day be a scumbag...any of us could be.  Not everything in life is a matter of choice. 

You really have reached the cliché point where you think that your success in life is completely because of the choices you've made and that everyone else could have made the same choices and have what you have.  That's fiction.  In real life, luck plays a major part, and one can make all the right decisions and still end up unable to repay a debt.

That doesn't make them scumbags.




Absolutely right Enlil, life is unpredictable especially if you take out a 30 year mortgage loan. Say you're in 10 years then you break a leg. Go 6 months without work while you heal, and suddenly you're in default. Doesn't sound like a scumbag to me.


--------------------
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OfflineWebster10
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Re: How Many Of You Are Happy About Obama Going Around Congress? [Re: shroom_sensai]
    #21123940 - 01/15/15 08:29 AM (6 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

shroom_sensai said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Then you may one day be a scumbag...any of us could be.  Not everything in life is a matter of choice. 

You really have reached the cliché point where you think that your success in life is completely because of the choices you've made and that everyone else could have made the same choices and have what you have.  That's fiction.  In real life, luck plays a major part, and one can make all the right decisions and still end up unable to repay a debt.

That doesn't make them scumbags.




Absolutely right Enlil, life is unpredictable especially if you take out a 30 year mortgage loan. Say you're in 10 years then you break a leg. Go 6 months without work while you heal, and suddenly you're in default. Doesn't sound like a scumbag to me.



A capable adult can and should think into the future about all the possibilities of what could happen. If they think the risk they are taking is too big, they shouldn't have taken it. Ignorance and lack of planning isn't an excuse to borrow money and not pay it back. Imagine you loan someone $1,000. I don't know about you, but if someone doesn't pay that back, for whatever reason, they are an asshole in my opinion.

I seriously doubt anyone in this thread who thinks the defaulter isn't the asshole would be forgiving if they lent someone money and the person didn't pay them back.


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: How Many Of You Are Happy About Obama Going Around Congress? [Re: Webster10]
    #21123956 - 01/15/15 08:44 AM (6 years, 9 months ago)

“If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on.” ― Terence McKenna


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