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Invisiblemicro
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Hardly anyone uses bags....
    #2106278 - 11/14/03 02:27 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

Benifits:

You can preseal them, so there's no contamination vector except when inoculating (a very small vector.) I don't even clean anything -- no reason to. You can stick them anywhere -- they won't contaminate because they're sealed with a filter-patch.

1 bag can hold 16 jars.

You can break + shake them up to speed up colonization.

You can make inoculant to inoculate as many more bags as you want sterilly inside of the bag.

.... so why do so few people use them?

--
Micro


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Offlinecrazychemist
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Re: Hardly anyone uses bags.... [Re: micro]
    #2106309 - 11/14/03 02:36 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

Probably because all the easy teks start with jars and people know how to do that well. I am on my first grow with BRF jars into 60/40 verm casing. Maybe I will try the bags out sometime soon.


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Invisibleralphster44
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Re: Hardly anyone uses bags.... [Re: micro]
    #2106329 - 11/14/03 02:42 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

Downside:

They cost too damn much...thats the main reason...

You can't interact with a closed bag.
The flushes are smaller because of the sealed enviorment.
No access to stop contams...

You basically have no choice as to substrate...

Well, thats my opinion anyway.
What can you learn by the "poke and squirt" bag?
Nothing....

I have never seen flushes worth a shit come from any "bag".

Just my opinion though....bags may be worth something...
I don't know what though...stealth growing maybe...whatever...

Ralphster44




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Offlinediacamomo
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Re: Hardly anyone uses bags.... [Re: ralphster44]
    #2106370 - 11/14/03 02:54 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

u can colon. the bags an use it to make casings!
the bags got a very good substrate...


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Invisibleralphster44
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Re: Hardly anyone uses bags.... [Re: diacamomo]
    #2106409 - 11/14/03 03:06 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

YOU CAN MAKE A FEW VERY INEXPENSIVE JARS JUST THE SAME.

12 jars might cost ya 2 bucks...

Those "bags" cost way more then that....

I would like to know what this "very good substrate" is?

This is too funny...lol
Just get your jars...that will be all you need.

I have never seen a "bag" worth a shit....
If anyone has, at least a decent grow from these "bags", I would like to see it.

The best I have seen is a few straglers, a poor flush at best.

Prove me wrong....
In my opinion..bags suck..
That is not the way to cultivate shrooms.

:smile:


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Offlinelittlejohn747
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Re: Hardly anyone uses bags.... [Re: ralphster44]
    #2106426 - 11/14/03 03:10 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

i don't like the bags......i think that it would take the fun out of the grow. I mean i don't know about you guys but every since i started my hobbie i have had alot of fun and the messed up part is that i have yet to fruit a cake.


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OfflineTheDarkSideof_Paco
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Re: Hardly anyone uses bags.... [Re: ralphster44]
    #2106427 - 11/14/03 03:10 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

I totally agree with Ralphster on the superiority of jars, but hey man where you getting 12 jars for 2 bucks? Would love to find jars for that price...

Paco


--------------------
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Invisiblemicro
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Re: Hardly anyone uses bags.... [Re: TheDarkSideof_Paco]
    #2106551 - 11/14/03 03:49 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

I always either case the substrate or run bulk (I don't run bulk, anymore.)  The flushes from casing a bag are the same per volume substrate as a jar -- there's no difference between the two.  If you do bags right you shouldn't have any contamination, at all, until casing, as normal.  Rubbing alcohol with a syringe is almost a nill contamination vector -- maybe 1/100 or more (I've never actually had a bag get contaminated coming from a clean source of spores.)

I don't think fruiting bags in vitro is the best way to do things, but I have had good flushes from doing that.

I guess the only real argument would be the cost -- that's a good point.  I just think it's worth it because I only run like two bags -- this is enough srooms for me for a year.  You also really need a heat sealer for the bags which costs an extra $75, but....

1 bag = 16 jars.

Just my opinion :wink:

--
Micro


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Invisibleangryshroom
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Re: Hardly anyone uses bags.... [Re: micro]
    #2106636 - 11/14/03 04:11 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

If I had an impulse sealer, then I would probably use bags... :smile:


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Offlinediacamomo
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Re: Hardly anyone uses bags.... [Re: micro]
    #2106646 - 11/14/03 04:13 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

ok ok ok ok ...
i'm just saying if u got bags use it to casing or let fruit like a big piece of myc like a cake...out of thg bag of course.

i know bags sucks i never buy some before....

ok ?  :lipsrsealed:


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Edited by diacamomo (11/14/03 04:14 PM)


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Hardly anyone uses bags.... [Re: ralphster44]
    #2106856 - 11/14/03 05:20 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

If space is an issue, and you have to buy rice, verm, jars, a heater, a pc, some geolite, a glove box or flow hood and lots of tupperware.

Bags CAN save you money.

Most n00bs aren't sure if they want to be mycologists for life.

Everyone talks about jars being cheap... not the first time they aren't.


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Offlinejohnbat
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Re: Hardly anyone uses bags.... [Re: Rose]
    #2106891 - 11/14/03 05:32 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

long term, jars are cheaper.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Hardly anyone uses bags.... [Re: johnbat]
    #2106906 - 11/14/03 05:37 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

yup


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InvisibleTM
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Re: Hardly anyone uses bags.... [Re: ralphster44]
    #2108375 - 11/15/03 04:24 AM (14 years, 10 days ago)

Ya Ralph... Bags totally suck:





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Offlinemomsn
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Re: Hardly anyone uses bags.... [Re: TM]
    #2108393 - 11/15/03 04:37 AM (14 years, 10 days ago)

You fruit directly from the bag? Interesting. What kind of yeilds would do you get from a bag Trip?


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InvisibleTM
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Re: Hardly anyone uses bags.... [Re: momsn]
    #2108399 - 11/15/03 04:41 AM (14 years, 10 days ago)

I didn't do the top one, just the bottom one and get about an ounce dried from each quart of rye on average.


--------------------
================================================



"Have some congratulatory drugs." - C. Montgomery Burns

I'll probably always do drugs, so that just contributes to the addiction to The Shroomery... It's a vicious circle of bliss. :tongue2:

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Offlineshroom_muncher
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Re: Hardly anyone uses bags.... [Re: TM]
    #2108868 - 11/15/03 01:10 PM (14 years, 9 days ago)

An ounce dry from EACH quart? That's awesome. What kind of bags/substrate do you use? How do you steralize a bag? I tried sticking one in the microwave and it just melted open.


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Invisiblemushy
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Registered: 09/30/03
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Re: Hardly anyone uses bags.... [Re: shroom_muncher]
    #2108874 - 11/15/03 01:16 PM (14 years, 9 days ago)

I use the bags for some of my experments they do hold more but damn seems like they take forever to colonise.


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OfflineWorkmanV
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Re: Hardly anyone uses bags.... [Re: ralphster44]
    #2108907 - 11/15/03 01:45 PM (14 years, 9 days ago)

It seems to me that Ralphster would be in support of anything that encouraged newbies to venture into mushroom growing. Even if it isn't the best or highest yielding method. I can imagine that the prefilled-sterilized mycobags with the self sealing injection port has created many new growers that otherwise were unsure if they had the skills to succeed.

Mushroom growing can seem overly complicated and equipment intensive to the uninitiated. But if all you need is a grainbased mycobag and a good syringe to start, why not take a chance? Once a newbie succeeds with a virtually foolproof method they will likely move on to more productive methods as their skills develop. All the while buying spores from vendors like Ralphster. Customers that may not even exist if not for the mycobag. I consider mycobags the gateway cultivation method.

It should also be noted that when Ralphster slams "bags" he means the presterilized mycobags already filled with substrate. I am not sure if he has the same issues with empty autoclavable culture bags that you have to fill and seal yourself. A well established and productive method for generating large amounts of colonized substrate in commercial operations.

I can only speculate that Ralphster's disdain for mycobags is based on personal issues with bag vendors and not logic.



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Invisiblemicro
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Re: Hardly anyone uses bags.... [Re: Workman]
    #2108920 - 11/15/03 01:52 PM (14 years, 9 days ago)

Damn.... I would never buy a mycobag from anyone -- I just buy the rice (rice is cheap) and cook it and put it in the bags, seal them and pressure cook them. 2 pounds of rice is like 79c. I only trust myself making them.

If you wanted to go with the pf tek, you could also use that substrate in bags.

--
Micro


--------------------
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(Avatar is Maxxy, a character by Mizzyam, RIP)


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