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Sporulator


Registered: 03/08/11
Posts: 1,644
Loc: Europe
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Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said: Could P. hispanica be conspecific with P. semilanceata?
The ITS sequences are just one base pair different, and it's just that one A turned into two A's near the beginning of the sequence, which is likely not even a real difference.
Perhaps they found P. semilanceata on horse dung and thought it was something new because of the unusual substrate. But horse dung is really just chewed up grass, so it's not that much of a leap - and P. semilanceata is found in the area.
The LSU sequences of the two species are identical.
I am having trouble finding the original species description, which was published in "Docums Mycol. 29(no. 116): 42 (2000)". Docums Mycol. is short for Les Documents Mycologiques.
Here's a photo of the holotype: http://mushroomobserver.org/241329
I never saw Psilocybe semilanceata fruiting directly from cow patties or horse droppings.
The Psilocybe hispanica strain I am working with does not look like Psilocybe semilanceata.
It is easy to grow compared to Psilocybe semilanceata, a casing layer is not necessary. It is a cold weather species like Psilocybe semilanceata, fruiting between 40 and 60 F and the potency is definitely equal to Psilocybe semilanceata.
But is the species I am working with really Psilocybe hispanica?
And was the material used for DNA sequencing really Psilocybe hispanica? Where did the material come from? This is all very confusing.

Edited by Sporulator (01/03/18 10:32 AM)
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Mateo
High on LIFE!



Registered: 06/24/11
Posts: 2,695
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Re: Psilocybe hispanica [Re: Sporulator] 1
#24891943 - 01/05/18 01:53 PM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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I saw pictures of a whole cluster P.Semilanceata fruiting directly from some animal poo. It was a thread about it in a swedish forum back in 2012. And it was Psilocybe semilanceata, im 100% sure of it having picked thousands of them. We thought it was odd it fruiting directly on the poo like that.
In fact i have always thought P.Semilanceata has some connection to dung. Where they grow in suburb areas over here they tend to grow grass lawns who has been newly laid out or grass lawn sown previous year. Then they grow on these for a few years with declining numbers. Just if they use up the nutrients or fertilizers in the soil. And they always use animal poo of some sort as a fertilizer. So P.Semilanceata is probably a dung lover, at least partially.
-------------------- A wise rat has many holes
Edited by Mateo (01/05/18 02:07 PM)
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Sporulator


Registered: 03/08/11
Posts: 1,644
Loc: Europe
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Re: Psilocybe hispanica [Re: Mateo] 1
#24893131 - 01/05/18 11:04 PM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mateo said: I saw pictures of a whole cluster P.Semilanceata fruiting directly from some animal poo. It was a thread about it in a swedish forum back in 2012. And it was Psilocybe semilanceata, im 100% sure of it having picked thousands of them. We thought it was odd it fruiting directly on the poo like that.
In fact i have always thought P.Semilanceata has some connection to dung. Where they grow in suburb areas over here they tend to grow grass lawns who has been newly laid out or grass lawn sown previous year. Then they grow on these for a few years with declining numbers. Just if they use up the nutrients or fertilizers in the soil. And they always use animal poo of some sort as a fertilizer. So P.Semilanceata is probably a dung lover, at least partially.
I agree with you that Psilocybe semilanceata is a nitrophilous species.
But I've never found them fruiting directly from dung here in Central Europe.
I always find them growing on former and now abandoned pastures, which have turned into ordinary grassland.
I suspect that another active species from Northern Spain could be involved in this confusion.
Psilocybe gallaeciae described in 2003 for the first time by Guzman in this paper:
http://www.samorini.it/doc1/alt_aut/ek/guzman03.pdf
http://mushroomobserver.org/observer/show_observation/59103
Edited by Sporulator (01/07/18 09:22 AM)
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Mateo
High on LIFE!



Registered: 06/24/11
Posts: 2,695
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Re: Psilocybe hispanica [Re: Sporulator] 1
#24894023 - 01/06/18 11:59 AM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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Intresting.
It wouldn´t suprice me if P.semilanceata has a few different sub varietys and that P.semilanceata and similar psilocybes are just same base mushroom that evolved to do well in their growing habitat. How much must a mushroom change/evolve to be considered a new one?
-------------------- A wise rat has many holes
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Sporulator


Registered: 03/08/11
Posts: 1,644
Loc: Europe
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Re: Psilocybe hispanica [Re: Mateo] 1
#24895451 - 01/06/18 11:13 PM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mateo said: How much must a mushroom change/evolve to be considered a new one?
Good question! But I'm a cultivator, not a taxonomist. You should ask Alan Rockefeller or Workman this question.
I think an interesting experiment would be to grow mycelium of Psilocybe semilanceata and Psilocybe hispanica on the same agar plate.
If they are the same species, no barrage formation should occur. Barrage formation means, that no nuclear exchange takes place, although hyphal fusions occur.
https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-642-69299-4_17
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Mateo
High on LIFE!



Registered: 06/24/11
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Re: Psilocybe hispanica [Re: Sporulator] 1
#24895839 - 01/07/18 07:35 AM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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So if for example a mycel of say Psilocybe Cubensis variation Maztapec were grown on the same agarplate as Psilocybe Cubensis variation Golden teacher, the two would not form a barrier when they meet and mix smoothly as both are Psilocybe Cubensis? They have probably grown separatley for many years and had time to adapt/evolve a bit of ther own. But this should not matter then and no barrier form, that is intresting as it can be used as a tool to differentiate 2 mushrooms, just as you say.
Too bad my myco refridgerator has broken down, maybe i try this when i get a new one. I think i have some spores of both P.semilanceata and P.hispanica.
-------------------- A wise rat has many holes
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Sporulator


Registered: 03/08/11
Posts: 1,644
Loc: Europe
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Re: Psilocybe hispanica [Re: Mateo] 1
#24895921 - 01/07/18 08:34 AM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mateo said: So if for example a mycel of say Psilocybe Cubensis variation Maztapec were grown on the same agarplate as Psilocybe Cubensis variation Golden teacher, the two would not form a barrier when they meet and mix smoothly as both are Psilocybe Cubensis?
Yes.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,891
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Psilocybe hispanica [Re: Sporulator] 1
#24898113 - 01/08/18 08:29 AM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sporulator said:
Quote:
Mateo said: So if for example a mycel of say Psilocybe Cubensis variation Maztapec were grown on the same agarplate as Psilocybe Cubensis variation Golden teacher, the two would not form a barrier when they meet and mix smoothly as both are Psilocybe Cubensis?
Yes.
 Spores have absolutely no idea a human wrote a name on their syringe. If they're the same species that's all they care about. And mating type
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Mateo
High on LIFE!



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Re: Psilocybe hispanica [Re: bodhisatta] 1
#24905424 - 01/11/18 12:38 PM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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But mushrooms evolve, change, adapt with time and environment. So at some point they must have changed so much a new mushroom is developed. Or it has at least changed enough to make a barrier on the agarplate. Is´t that how every mushroom has allways been created?
-------------------- A wise rat has many holes
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

Registered: 03/10/07
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Re: Psilocybe hispanica [Re: Mateo] 1
#24911907 - 01/13/18 08:09 PM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mateo said: How much must a mushroom change/evolve to be considered a new one?
There is a central authority on nomenclature, but no central authority on taxonomy. Therefore it is up to each individual person to answer that question for themselves, as there is no set number of changes that triggers it being new species.
I like to follow Dr. Bas's species concept, which is that there should be three unrelated differences. They could be macromorphological, microscopic, chemical or molecular (DNA).
The biological species concept is a good way to answer this question in animals, but does not really work in plants or fungi since they hybridize often.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,891
Loc: Milky way
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Just an unrelated anecdote for anyone interested https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brassica_oleracea
broccoli, cauliflower, kale, Romanesco, Rapini, Brussels sprouts, collard greens, savoy, kohlrabi, and gai lan. Are all the exact same species. And all so very different. There's some you probably love and some you hate on that list.
Canines are like this too. There's obvious and vast difference between breeds
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MushroomOfLife
Loopdidoop



Registered: 11/05/17
Posts: 47
Loc: Tanganyika
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Re: Psilocybe hispanica [Re: bodhisatta] 1
#25278290 - 06/19/18 07:22 AM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: Just an unrelated anecdote for anyone interested https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brassica_oleracea
broccoli, cauliflower, kale, Romanesco, Rapini, Brussels sprouts, collard greens, savoy, kohlrabi, and gai lan. Are all the exact same species. And all so very different. There's some you probably love and some you hate on that list.
Canines are like this too. There's obvious and vast difference between breeds
Sorry to revisit an old thread, but Kale is the spawn of the devil!
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

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Quote:
MushroomOfLife said: Sorry to revisit an old thread, but Kale is the spawn of the devil!
Why?
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saralove



Registered: 10/01/13
Posts: 1,068
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Re: Psilocybe hispanica [Re: Workman] 10
#26498787 - 02/22/20 05:20 PM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Workman said: Outdoor cultivated Psilocybe hispanica. This species is relatively easy to grow on sterilized horse manure placed outside during cool fall weather (around 60F). A relatively newly described species from Spain. In Spain it grows directly on sheep dung in fields that also support fruitings of Psilocybe semilanceata



Very small specimens growing from a displaced piece of colonized horse dung. Rodents or birds dug into the patch and scattered small pieces of dung that later fruited. It is interesting to note the reduced size of the mushrooms when growing from very small amounts of substrate.

This is a larger specimen from the main patch. Still a relatively small mushroom. The odor is very similar to Psilocybe semilanceata and the appearance reminds me of Psilocybe mexicana
I hope this puts a smile on your face workman wherever you are =)
P. hispanica as a fun little cake

your teachings live on
always your student,
sara
ps.
hi everyone
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Listening to: emancipator - baralku tour (live) | AMU
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Pliny_the_Elder
Stranger

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Re: Psilocybe hispanica [Re: saralove] 1
#26500401 - 02/23/20 07:14 PM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Nice job! Did you have to do anything special compared to growing a normal cube?
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bw86
Doesn't play well with others


Registered: 11/12/06
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holy shit. I have tried to germinate the print i have from sporeworks a dozen times. Amazing work! I wish i could give you 5 more shrooms!
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Loaded Shaman
Psychophysiologist



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Re: Psilocybe hispanica [Re: Workman] 1
#27106754 - 12/25/20 12:19 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Beautiful, OP!
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  "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius
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coversall
إِنْ شَاءَ ٱللَهُ



Registered: 06/06/20
Posts: 2,749
Loc: संसार
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Re: Psilocybe hispanica [Re: saralove] 1
#27110417 - 12/27/20 09:50 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
saralove said:
Quote:
Workman said: Outdoor cultivated Psilocybe hispanica. This species is relatively easy to grow on sterilized horse manure placed outside during cool fall weather (around 60F). A relatively newly described species from Spain. In Spain it grows directly on sheep dung in fields that also support fruitings of Psilocybe semilanceata



Very small specimens growing from a displaced piece of colonized horse dung. Rodents or birds dug into the patch and scattered small pieces of dung that later fruited. It is interesting to note the reduced size of the mushrooms when growing from very small amounts of substrate.

This is a larger specimen from the main patch. Still a relatively small mushroom. The odor is very similar to Psilocybe semilanceata and the appearance reminds me of Psilocybe mexicana
I hope this puts a smile on your face workman wherever you are =)
P. hispanica as a fun little cake

your teachings live on
always your student,
sara
ps.
hi everyone
What an awesome bump! Those are stunning! I'm going to watch this thread with interest.
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V.L


Registered: 12/15/17
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Re: Psilocybe hispanica [Re: coversall] 3
#27726779 - 04/09/22 06:28 AM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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They are small, for me too easier to grow than semilanceata (as I failed all attempts with semi indoor) phenotype remind me a bit tampanensis but prefer colder temperature.. thanks to CaptainFuture for the print it was a something I wanted to observe since years and will work more on it! Fingers crossed for printing in few days!
Edited by V.L (04/09/22 09:23 AM)
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

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Re: Psilocybe hispanica [Re: V.L] 1
#27731885 - 04/12/22 07:28 PM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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I believe that Psilocybe hispanica is a synonym of P. semilanceata or P. fimetaria. The fruits in this thread look like P. fimetaria.
Someone should do some DNA work on these!
I'd be happy to but I don't have any material.
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