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 Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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 Never-Ending Mycelium 
#584380 - 03/20/02 03:08 PM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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Seems that most of us do the spore print to syringe to jar to grain to casing/ composting method and restart a new cycle. Is this necessary? Why not just take half of your fully colonized compost to innoculate another batch of compost, keeping the first half for fruiting? In this way you can skip a half-dozen steps and a lot of time and effort.
I know that this idea is nothing new, but few seem to do it. I can't see any reason for the strain to ever degenerate. Also colonized compost seems relatively impervious to most contams.
I am missing something critical here?
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The proof is in the pudding.
Edited by Swami (03/20/02 10:45 PM)
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 Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 9 days
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Re: Never Ending Mycelium [Re: Swami]
#584419 - 03/20/02 03:53 PM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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Stamets has a couple of pages in TMC which discuss this idea.
My friend uses this technique and has only had minor problems. You have to be on the lookout for contamination and senescent spawn masters. You also have to be on a continual schedule; you can't take time off as easily.
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Just another spore in the wind.
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 Baby_Hitler
Errorist
Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 27,879
Loc: To the limit!
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Re: Never Ending Mycelium [Re: Swami]
#584629 - 03/20/02 08:33 PM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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Bump.
That's what I was talking about in my incessant "stealth tek" posts. Take a pound of colonized worm castings, add it to 5 one pound bags of castings, let them colonize, use some of them to start more bags, and fruit some others.
Small bags of fuzzy dirt aren't going to get a second look from the authorities. You could even fruit them outside or in a flowerpot with a large houseplant. If you get caught, play dumb. You cant go to jail for allowing illegal mushrooms to grow without your knowledge. If you could, every farmer in South Carolina, Georgia, Mississippi, Florida and several other states would be in jail.
They would also make excellent "gift" baskets for freinds.
Mycophile told me that the senescence thing wouldn't be a problem unless you were growing tons of the stuff. I'm not sure if volume of colonized substrate is the only factor though, or if time is also a factor. Either way I think you could probably get by for at least a year before you needed to start fresh because of senescence.
Fool, you can't kill Baby Hitler!
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Azure
old hand
Registered: 12/31/98
Posts: 469
Loc: California, USA
Last seen: 22 years, 7 months
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Re: Never Ending Mycelium [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#584793 - 03/21/02 12:25 AM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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Theory always sounds so much better than reality. The fact of the matter is taking fully colonized mycelium that is NOT sterile and breaking it up to colonize more material increases chances of contamination. If bacteria are already present in the spawn, they will be the first to colonize new material when mixed with it. This will slow down the spawn and can hinder recolonization, depending on the substance being colonize and the amount of new available nutrients in it. Doing this method outdoors under optimal conditions has a higher rate of sucess because of the better air exchang.
Rye berries contaminate easily, unlike straw and composted dung, which have lower nitrogen levels. Hence, the comment on taking old spawn and innoculating rye berries with it is ridiculous.
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World Spirit
PNW
Registered: 07/27/01
Posts: 9,817
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Re: Never-Ending Mycelium [Re: Swami]
#584837 - 03/21/02 01:16 AM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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Deleted by admin
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 9 days
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Re: Never Ending Mycelium [Re: Azure]
#585037 - 03/21/02 07:51 AM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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> Theory always sounds so much better than reality.
As I said in my post, my friend uses this method... it isn't just theory.
> taking fully colonized mycelium that is NOT sterile and
Why would you have contaminated spawn masters sitting around? My friend throws anything away that is contaminated as soon as she detects it. She would never use a contaminated master.
You do run a chance of admiting new contaminates into the system every time you do a transfer. However, this is no more of a risk than transfering an agar wedge. Because you transfer a lot of mycelium that has already adapted itself to the growing substrate, the growth rate is very fast and actually reduces the chances/time that contaminations have to take hold.
> taking old spawn and innoculating rye berries with it is ridiculous.
Ridiculous or not, it works very well for my friend. It also aparently works for Stamets as he has a section in The Mushroom Cultivator dedicated to this technique using rye berries.
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Just another spore in the wind.
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Azure
old hand
Registered: 12/31/98
Posts: 469
Loc: California, USA
Last seen: 22 years, 7 months
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Re: Never Ending Mycelium [Re: Seuss]
#585067 - 03/21/02 08:41 AM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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Under sterile conditions, there are no problems. I was referring to when you already took the spawn out of the sterile jars, colonized compost with it, and then broke up that spawn and added more compost to it.
Please give me the page number in Stamets book where he specifies that he takes spawn from a bed that has already been fruited and starts NEW grain masters with it. I don't disagree that you can take old spawn from sterile cultures and innoculate new ones.
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ralphster44
collector
Registered: 01/03/01
Posts: 4,657
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 Re: Never Ending Mycelium [Re: Azure]
#585073 - 03/21/02 08:48 AM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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Post deleted by administrator.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Never Ending Mycelium [Re: Azure]
#585086 - 03/21/02 09:04 AM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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where he specifies that he takes spawn from a bed that has already been fruited
I would transfer BEFORE fruiting (then again I am a novice) so that the mycelium has more energy. There is no power to motivate like sexual frustration. LOL!
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The proof is in the pudding.
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ParticleMan
enthusiast
Registered: 02/05/02
Posts: 240
Last seen: 22 years, 7 months
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Re: Never Ending Mycelium [Re: Seuss]
#585973 - 03/22/02 02:18 AM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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Seuss,
I have been trying to get this question answered in the other forum, but i have had no takers yet, i was wondering if you could help me out.....
when you do your transfer, do you just use a glovebox with everything sprayed down? just take some colonized substrate and throw it in the new jar? i was also wondering if you had ever tried splashing some h2o2 on your grain that you are using to transfer? would it cut down on contams?? or just slow growth???
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 9 days
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Re: Never Ending Mycelium [Re: ParticleMan]
#586162 - 03/22/02 08:41 AM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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My friend uses a homemade glovebox that is wiped with 99% IPA and lots of lysol before use. A laminer flow hood would be nice to have, but currently is out of my friends price range.
My friend will sterilize a large bag of rye berries for several hours under pressure. When she first started using spawn masters, she had a lot of contamination issues. She found that she had to increase her cook time quite a lot because the bags hold so much more grain. She also quit using the oven tek which helped as well.
After a quart jar has colonized, she will shake it up to loosen all the kernels and then pour a cup or two worth of colonized berries into the cooled sterilized bag in the glove box. Just like agar, you need to be quick to reduce the time window when contamination can get in. When the quart jars (spawn masters) start to get low, she will make new ones and innoculate them with the leftovers from the old jars. Again, watch for contamination and chuck anything that sours.
My friend has never used h2o2, and I don't know that I would recommend it. I would be worried about throwing off the moisture level and giving bacteria a nice wet place to grow. I would think it more important to ensure the outside of the jars and bags and work surfaces are all clean, etc...
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Just another spore in the wind.
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ParticleMan
enthusiast
Registered: 02/05/02
Posts: 240
Last seen: 22 years, 7 months
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Re: Never Ending Mycelium [Re: Seuss]
#586306 - 03/22/02 11:41 AM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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thanks, my friend just tried to crumble a brf cake into a quart of birdseed, we will see what happens.... knowing all his first tries he should manage to screw something up
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"the weekend has landed all that exists now is clubs,drugs, pubs, and parties" - Human Traffic
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kushroom
Registered: 12/04/14
Posts: 588
Loc: I'm lost
Last seen: 7 months, 7 days
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Thats called p2g its just like a g2g but with crumble instead.
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All submitted posts are by Someone Who Isn't Me (SWIM) - and in any event are works of pure fiction or outright lies. Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated fictitious lies.
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Bumbaclotjohnson
Sequoia Farmer
Registered: 01/12/14
Posts: 1,067
Loc: USA 
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
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Re: Never Ending Mycelium [Re: kushroom]
#21014745 - 12/22/14 10:53 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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Damn this is an old thread
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