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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Epilepsy and psychedelics.
    #2099766 - 11/13/03 02:20 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

My friend has epilepsy that's generally under control. She doesn't seizure very often at all anymore and it's not a huge problem right now, but because of the illness she's afraid to try shrooms. She's worried they could trigger seizures. We'd like to do them together but I'd never want to put her in any risk, I care about her too much. Does anyone know whether or not mushrooms and/or other psychedelics significantly increase risk of epileptic symptoms?


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InvisibleJohn
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Re: Epilepsy and psychedelics. [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #2099788 - 11/13/03 02:26 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I'm sure monoamine could anwser this question for you.

I think she would be fine, but don't take my word for it, I would wait for him to reply to this. Is she on any kind of meds? I think that's what you would have to be careful about depending of what shes on moreso that epilepsy.


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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Re: Epilepsy and psychedelics. [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #2099806 - 11/13/03 02:32 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Only if you close your eyes or go in a dark room. Just keep this person in a well lite room. With no flashes!


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OfflineBhairabas
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Re: Epilepsy and psychedelics. [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #2101640 - 11/13/03 02:25 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

It's not a good Idea to do any psychedelic drugs if your epeleptic.. I have a friend that quit for that very reason..


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Offlinemonoamine
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Re: Epilepsy and psychedelics. [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #2102681 - 11/13/03 07:26 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I have mild epilespy. I don't get any convulsions. Siezures are just basically electrical activity in your brain gone haywire.

Whenever I go through my little spells I feel totally out of my mind. I feel detached and everybody looks fake (myself included) like they're robots or something.It's extremely unpleasant. It comes and goes and I probably have an episode about once a week. I've been having them quite frequently the last six months or so,so I've decided not to use any psychedelics for awhile.

Some siezures are profoundly mind altering,while some people don't even have a mental changes.

Anyway,with the possible exception of ketamine and dxm,every single psychedelic drug is a convulsant and lowers the siezure threshold a little.There have been reports of people with epilepsy that is under control going into convulsions during trips. It's somewhat rare,but possible.

My answer would be hell no if your friend is having any symptoms associated with it. If it's under control,you need to take a lot into consideration. Start with a low dose.People with siezure disorders generally have overactive brains to begin with. If your friend is having ANY symptoms of siezures (convulsions,twitching,one pupil being larger than the other,smelling things that aren't there),do not continue. If everything seems to be OK,raise the dose next time. Make sure your friend has her medicine handy and possibly some benzos (Xanax,Valium,Ativan) in case things start going sour.

Your friend knows her body and mind better than anyone else. Like I said,start low and if she notices any mental changes or gut feelings (referred to as "auras" by epipleptics) associated with siezures,stop there.

I could probably tell you more if you're more specific about the epilepsy. What kind is it? How often did she have seizures when unmedicated? How often now? How does she feel when she has them? Does she notice an "aura"? Does she lose conciousness when convulsing?


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People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
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Edited by monoamine (11/13/03 07:30 PM)


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OfflinePDU
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Re: Epilepsy and psychedelics. [Re: monoamine]
    #2102787 - 11/13/03 08:03 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I have tourettes and no psychedelics effect my tics very little at all, perhaps decreasing them.

*shrugs*


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Epilepsy and psychedelics. [Re: PDU]
    #2103352 - 11/13/03 10:20 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Thanks for everyone's advice on this subject, I'll let her know what the recommendations are and see if she thinks it's worth it.


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OfflineTasty_Smurf_House
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Re: Epilepsy and psychedelics. [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #2112164 - 11/16/03 06:50 PM (14 years, 29 days ago)

i get seizures. not very often tho. unmedicated i rarely get any. i upped my med dose to 750 mg of epival /day about a year ago and havent had a problem since. then again i've only done mush 3 times since but i've still had no problem with it. hope i never do.


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Offlineorizon
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Re: Epilepsy and psychedelics. [Re: Tasty_Smurf_House]
    #2113441 - 11/17/03 12:04 AM (14 years, 29 days ago)

I just want to make it clear that epileptic related seizures are different from bodily drug induced convulsions (amp-coke-X OD'ing etc..) And even though those who suffer from epilepsy have little to fear from experiementing with psychadelics, they should have more concern when they get into the realm of dissociatives which include drugs as DXM, PCP and ketamine...I would include n20 in this list as well but K and whipits are like apples and oranges. The harder dissociatives are the ones that pose a concern with epileptic victims.


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Offlinemonoamine
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Re: Epilepsy and psychedelics. [Re: orizon]
    #2113653 - 11/17/03 12:52 AM (14 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

I just want to make it clear that epileptic related seizures are different from bodily drug induced convulsions (amp-coke-X OD'ing etc..)




There are many different types and causes of siezures.Epilepsy is usually just a generic term for a chronic siezure disorder. Siezures are just too much electrical discharge in the brain. Where thet happen in the brain dictates what happens to the person. People that get convulsions have siezures that usually involve most of the brain or the motor cortex. People that get partial temporal lobe siezures often don't get any convulsions, but often get profound alterations in consciousness.

Quote:

they should have more concern when they get into the realm of dissociatives which include drugs as DXM, PCP and ketamine...I would include n20 in this list as well but K and whipits are like apples and oranges. The harder dissociatives are the ones that pose a concern with epileptic victims.




Actually with the exception of PCP because it has strong stimulant qualities,dissociatives are actually anti epileptic for the most part.

However,there is a hypothesis that people's brains that get siezures might release natural glutamate blocking chemicals to calm the brain. These hypothetical chemicals may be responsible for the alterations in consciousness that people with temporal lobe siezures may get- instead of the electrical discharges themselves.

Whenever I go through my little episodes I actually feel kind of like I'm DXM. I also seem to be overly sensitive to dissociatives. A 400 mg dose of DXM will totally blow me away.


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People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
Douglas Adams


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Offlineorizon
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Re: Epilepsy and psychedelics. [Re: monoamine]
    #2114248 - 11/17/03 03:37 AM (14 years, 29 days ago)

From the articles that I have read regarding epileptic patients, it is advised to stay away from dissociatives. I have always been under the impression that being tired or worn out can trigger individual seizures. And individual seizures are nothing to be taken lightly. Whether or not dissociatives are a direct influence on these electrical charges I do not know. Are you saying the stimulant nature of PCP is good or no? Monoamine can you shed more light?


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Offlineorizon
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Re: Epilepsy and psychedelics. [Re: orizon]
    #2129604 - 11/22/03 09:52 PM (14 years, 23 days ago)

The below article is taken from the "Olney's lesions" theory available at http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/dxm/dxm_health1.shtml.
Even though I , as well as others on this forum and scientists, believe this article is for the most part bullshit, it is still wise to take into consideration that there is a credible thoery stating dissociatives should be avoided in epileptic individuals. Nitrous Oxide I think is chocolate compared to PCP so of course the harder ones should be taken more seriously. Holes in the brain (dead matter) Sounds Fuckin BAD to me wo matter who it comes from!!(lesions)

Just as a side note, many people belive this theory holds no ground because the tests were done on rats, which retain a much higher motabalism and when the tests were done on monkeys...No damage was found. The Rats were also given 40mg of Ketamine!!! which is a light dose for a human weighing 100 times more!!!! However, if for some reason, you wish to engage in heavy DXM-PCP-Ketamine or extreme Nitrous binges----more research should be conducted. This article actually in a way promotes psychadelics though so you know the writer is not just boasting D.A.R.E-like propaganda.

"II.1. Limbic Seizures and "Temporal Lobe Lability"
Simply put, if you are epileptic (diagnosed or not) or are susceptible to seizures, you should absolutely avoid dissociatives. They can induce seizure-like brain activity even in normal individuals, and there are several documented cases of people with underlying seizure disorders who suffered severe brain damage from using dissociatives.

There's also the possibility that dissociative use may induce seizures even in normal individuals. EEG activity suggests this, and many of the more extraordinary effects of dissociatives -- religious visions, for example -- are reminiscent of temporal lobe seizures. But I have yet to hear any solid evidence, and I'm skeptical.

A more reasonable phenomenon sometimes goes by the name "temporal lobe lability", and refers to a cluster of symptoms which are similar to those experienced by temporal lobe epileptics, without the involvement of actual epilepsy. Some of the more common symptoms include hearing voices (especially in white noise or static), visual disturbances, frequent deja vu or jamais vu, intense and fluid emotions, somatic hallucinations (electric shocks, "crawling skin"), delusions of reference (events seem to have unusual meaning), sensed presences, and spiritual experiences (within the current mythology this can appear as alien encounters). By the way, this refers to symptoms experienced while sober, not while intoxicated.

It's not clear (to me) whether this represents a real phenomenon or whether it's a product of cultural factors, but I'm inclined to believe the former. The phenomenon is more frequent and intense in women and left-handers, which implicates the temporal lobe or limbic areas (thus the name). Michael Persinger has published papers on the subject, suggesting it may be an undiagnosed seizure disorder, but I think Persinger sees limbic seizures hiding behind every tree.

Whatever the nature of temporal lobe lability, quite a few long-term dissociative users have told me these specific symptoms tend to become more frequent over time. Most seem to view it as an annoyance more than anything else. I have a personal hypothesis on this subject, but it's rather complex and detailed; essentially, I think its a learned phenomenon, not a neurological one. The counterpoint view is that it is neurological, and may represent a gradual loss of inhibitory GABAergic neurons or glial cells (this would be bad).

Peace, Orizon


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Offlinetoytle
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Re: Epilepsy and psychedelics. [Re: monoamine]
    #4139666 - 05/05/05 10:54 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I have grad mal seizure but only when I'm off my medications which is divalproex (sp?) and was wondering if I could take the tiniest amount of shrooms...... like half of a half of a five piece


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"Live your life like it's last call. We're all on borrowed time. Never say goodbye!" (c) Kyprios

"The finest tapestry takes patience and the ability to wait for each thread to support the bigger picture and the larger purpose. And in the fearless, reckless pursuit of intimate love, it is not the destination it's the journey" (c) Amanda Marshall


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Offlinetoytle
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Re: Epilepsy and psychedelics. [Re: Tasty_Smurf_House]
    #4139718 - 05/05/05 11:12 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I'm on the same dose as you...... interesting..... maybe i'll try a really really low dose of shrooms


--------------------
"Live your life like it's last call. We're all on borrowed time. Never say goodbye!" (c) Kyprios

"The finest tapestry takes patience and the ability to wait for each thread to support the bigger picture and the larger purpose. And in the fearless, reckless pursuit of intimate love, it is not the destination it's the journey" (c) Amanda Marshall


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Re: Epilepsy and psychedelics. [Re: toytle]
    #4142377 - 05/06/05 03:08 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

if she starts off with a very low dose she should be fine. if she goes into the trip thinking she is fine she will have a great time. and let her know if an epileptic seizure happens(which would be rare) treat it like any other time it happens.

if she stays worried about it, her trip will be less pleasant, and it wont be worth even trying


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"Psychedelics should be used not to escape reality, but to embrace it"



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OfflineFospher
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Re: Epilepsy and psychedelics. [Re: danlennon3]
    #4143359 - 05/06/05 07:00 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I've done shrooms 30+ times, LSD 7+, and mescaline twice. Im also epileptic. However, I also know quite a bit about the drug and am collected and calm under the influence. Does this girl seem capable of handling the high?

As long as the people and surroundings are right, she will be fine. Smoke some pot, that usually helps calm my epilepsy.

Now what I want to know if there are any epileptics that've tried DMT...


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OfflineWeebl8bob
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Re: Epilepsy and psychedelics. [Re: monoamine]
    #5777826 - 06/21/06 09:49 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

monoamine said:
Quote:

I also seem to be overly sensitive to dissociatives. A 400 mg dose of DXM will totally blow me away. 



Hmm.. You call that overly sensitive? 130mg of DXM gets me far past 4th plataeu :crazy2:
Sadly its due to the fact that im missing a liver enzyme and it causes me to get red, itchy, and swollen :eek:


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