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OfflineDreeamweaver
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Registered: 12/09/14
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Sawdust spawn? + Straw question
    #20987388 - 12/16/14 11:28 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Bought some sawdust spawn (Blue Oyster since 'tis the season, apparently) today from a local mushroom shop. Apparently it's sawdust mixed in with some other nutritious stuff for the myc to snack on, and I'm storing it in my fridge until I can get my hands some some straw.


A friend of mine tells me that sawdust isn't a very good substrate, though, as it lacks nutrition needed for large, healthy fruit. Is this correct, or was he falsely assuming that it was *just* sawdust? From what I could tell by looking in their greenhouse, the people at my local mushroom shop were getting some crazy good flushes, so I think my bro might be speaking out of turn here.

I would like to hear what the seasoned vets here thing though, is the sawdust spawn + straw bag tek generally good? My friend is suggesting that in the future I go grain, but it seems to me that most edibles are partial to wood-based substrates.



As for straw, Stamets' famous book says that straw should be sterilized in a barrel with a fire built under it, but is there an easier way to do this for us barrel-impaired folks?

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InvisibleElf_on_a_Log
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Re: Sawdust spawn? + Straw question [Re: Dreeamweaver]
    #20987714 - 12/17/14 01:34 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

You should start with grain and then spawn that to sawdust and/or straw.  What you bought from the shop sounds like it might be pre-spawned supplemented sawdust if it's already got mycelium growing in it; basically a grow-kit.  For oysters plain unsupplemented straw or sawdust should work fine, but as a bulk substrate, not as spawn.  The grain spawn is where the majority of your nutrients come from and the bulk substrate is primarily for retaining all the water the mushrooms will need to grow, though it also provides a small amount of nutrients.

You don't need to sterilize the straw, you just need to pasteurize it.  Pasteurizing will neutralize any contaminates in it for roughly 2 weeks; enough time for the mycelium to fully colonize it.  This straw log tek is a good one to follow.

There are some great instructional videos for sale at mushroomvideos.com by the guy that created that tek that will walk you through the whole process in detail.

Just FYI, working with straw is a pain in the ass and very messy.  I recommend sawdust, it's far easier all around.  You basically just put wood fuel pellets and gypsum into a tote and pour boiling water into it.


--------------------
"I was strolling through the woods one day when I came upon an elf sitting on a log.  He offered me a strange-looking mushroom to eat.  As soon as I ate it, I realized that I was the elf on the log and that my human life had been but a dream."
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Invisibleblindingleaf
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Re: Sawdust spawn? + Straw question [Re: Elf_on_a_Log]
    #20987907 - 12/17/14 04:10 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

you can use sawdust>straw for oysters, i think some people here do that.
grain>straw might give u higher yield??
if i heat pasteurize straw at home i do it the RR way, except i use 2 five gallon buckets, one inside the other, for insulation, because the totes he uses in the videos did not hold that well for me, even doubled up.  i soak the straw over night, then drain and dump in 175f water, and check temp 30 minutes later, if its getting down near 140, ill boil 2 more quarts and pour it in.
u can use hydrated lime as well to just soak it overnight for easier pasteurization.  2g's hydrated lime (low magnesium %) per liter of water, soak 12 hours, drain for 4-6, spawn.  i let it drain overnight, cause its pretty wet after a soak.  burlap bags keep it all together, easy to pull out and set aside.


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OfflineDreeamweaver
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Re: Sawdust spawn? + Straw question [Re: blindingleaf]
    #20990707 - 12/17/14 05:49 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

The sawdust is supplemented (I think with grain, I'm not sure).

I'll follow RR's advice, for sure.



I also have a question about shiitake. Are insects a problem with them? I can't imagine that growing such a great edible species outdoors wouldn't attract some unwanted moochers trying to cash in on my sweet flushes.

Is this something I need to worry about? Are there ways to prevent it?

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OfflineDreeamweaver
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Re: Sawdust spawn? + Straw question [Re: Dreeamweaver]
    #20992494 - 12/18/14 12:36 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Another Shiitake question: I've got plenty of white oak growing on my property, so free logs is something I have an abundance of, fortunately.

However, I've read from a few different sources that inoculation should be done about three weeks after cutting logs, because trees produce a natural fungicide that apparently "clears out" or something.... but other sources say that inoculation should be done as soon as possible after getting fresh logs.

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Offlineknomadic_niki
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Re: Sawdust spawn? + Straw question [Re: Dreeamweaver]
    #20994874 - 12/18/14 03:55 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

About your sawdust "spawn", it is usually used to inoculate logs with, as far as i know. you're not meant to fruit spawn but it does work. i'm kind of confused by your question, i guess...i always use grain spawn to inoculate pasteurized straw substrate because it gives the mycelium some nutrients for better yields.

i can answer your shiitake questions, though. insects depend on where you live and where you put the logs. when i lived in NC, i had my logs in a bog. slugs and squirrels were a problem. you also get these little black beetles but they don't damage the fruit and you can just knock them off when you pick them. to keep the slugs away, i used beer to drown them. to keep the squirrels off, i put pvc hoops over the stacks with wildlife netting covering the hoops.

i always wait until the logs "check", meaning the ends start to crack. by that time the anti fungal compounds the tree produces have broken down and won't affect your plugs/sawdust spawn. i would not wait more than 4 weeks or they will dry out and you will have competitor fungi beginning to take hold.


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Edited by knomadic_niki (12/18/14 03:56 PM)

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OfflineDreeamweaver
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Re: Sawdust spawn? + Straw question [Re: knomadic_niki]
    #20996124 - 12/18/14 08:08 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

knomadic_niki said:
About your sawdust "spawn", it is usually used to inoculate logs with, as far as i know. you're not meant to fruit spawn but it does work. i'm kind of confused by your question, i guess...i always use grain spawn to inoculate pasteurized straw substrate because it gives the mycelium some nutrients for better yields.

i can answer your shiitake questions, though. insects depend on where you live and where you put the logs. when i lived in NC, i had my logs in a bog. slugs and squirrels were a problem. you also get these little black beetles but they don't damage the fruit and you can just knock them off when you pick them. to keep the slugs away, i used beer to drown them. to keep the squirrels off, i put pvc hoops over the stacks with wildlife netting covering the hoops.

i always wait until the logs "check", meaning the ends start to crack. by that time the anti fungal compounds the tree produces have broken down and won't affect your plugs/sawdust spawn. i would not wait more than 4 weeks or they will dry out and you will have competitor fungi beginning to take hold.




I'm still very new to this, sorry for misusing the lingo.

I am going to use straw as the substrate, the sawdust is just the spawn. I realize grain is much better, but I'm still very new and wanted to start simple (*cough* totally not trying to justify using the spawn I bought before consulting more experienced cultivators *cough* *cough*).


I live in TN, I don't think we're close enough that we probably share the same pest problems. I've heard that sprinkling lime around logs is good for keeping slugs away too. I'll figure out something for the squirrels

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Offlineknomadic_niki
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Re: Sawdust spawn? + Straw question [Re: Dreeamweaver]
    #20996319 - 12/18/14 08:46 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

no worries, that's how we learn. i just wasn't clear on what it was your actually bought. if it was indeed sawdust spawn or if it was a grow kit (meant to be fruited). sorry if i sounded condescending, that's not what i meant. and, yea, i used to grow outdoors in NC, which is very similar to TN. Now I live in Colorado and I don't have any pest problems so far, except my own damn chickens and guineas, lol


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OfflineDreeamweaver
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Re: Sawdust spawn? + Straw question [Re: knomadic_niki]
    #20996900 - 12/18/14 11:03 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

No worries, I didn't think you sounded condescending :smile:


How often did you hydrate your logs, and how did you hydrate them? Will spraying them down thoroughly with a hose suffice?

How long should I wait after I cut my logs, exactly? That is, how long does it take for the fungicidal agents to die out?

I'm guessing this time of year is good for inoculation, since the trees are storing lots of carbs for the winter and I don't have to worry about sap or anything?

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Offlineknomadic_niki
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Re: Sawdust spawn? + Straw question [Re: knomadic_niki]
    #20998363 - 12/19/14 10:40 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

knomadic_niki said:
i always wait until the logs "check", meaning the ends start to crack. by that time the anti fungal compounds the tree produces have broken down and won't affect your plugs/sawdust spawn. i would not wait more than 4 weeks or they will dry out and you will have competitor fungi beginning to take hold.




so, btwn 2 and 4 weeks, depending on when they check. after i inoculate, i stack them close together so they're easyt o manage and water them 3-4 times a week for 4-6 hours with a garden hose with a frog eye sprinkler on it. it depends how wet it is outside. i live in a dry climate, so that amount of watering will probably be too much for you in TN.

spawn providers instruct buyers to cut their logs when the sap is "running", meaning spring or fall. if you cut in winter, all the sugars are in the roots. if you cut in summer, all the sugars are in the leaves.


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OfflineDreeamweaver
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Re: Sawdust spawn? + Straw question [Re: knomadic_niki]
    #21005951 - 12/21/14 12:24 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

I've been thinking about the sawdust>straw grow for Oysters and was wondering if there was a better substrate that could be used? I've seen some people say fuel pellets are great, but since I'm already using sawdust spawn, I'm not sure if they're the best to use.


I'm thinking of doing the same with some of my shiitake dowels, but I'm not sure if putting the plugs in the pellets will work.



As for my log inocs, how often can I expect flushes after that first 6-12 months is up and they start pinning?

Edited by Dreeamweaver (12/21/14 12:43 AM)

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OfflineHumbled
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Re: Sawdust spawn? + Straw question [Re: Dreeamweaver]
    #21006299 - 12/21/14 04:42 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Plugs into pellets should spawn just fine. As for the Oysters, I always use straw as a bulk substrate and it works great. Sawdust(or pellets) is probably one of the better mediums to use but a combo thereof(straw&sawdust) seems like it would be perfect for nutrition and density.

I'm not sure about your log flushes though.:grin:


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