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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: psilocin (4-ho-dmt) first experience [Re: tregar]
    #15937665 - 03/12/12 02:54 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

but which do not contain baeocystin and friends which often are the cause of "confusion" when people eat psilocybe cubensis, which contains those additional alkaloids




I'd like to see more evidence of this - :shrug: - as the difference in species' effects has always been both interesting and somewhat inexplicable to me.  Ps. semilanceata produced the most intense visuals for me with very little body load, for instance.

In any case, SFAIK anyway, the "blue-brown" color resulting from adding psilocin (primarily) to water is similar to what you get if you make tea from fresh fruits in pH neutral water.  Acidifying the water (up to 1:40 citric acid) doesn't show the oxidation effects, takes up the psilocin easily (see Gold, The Measure of the Mushroom), and results in just the fast comeup and trip onset you've described.

Acidify before extraction :thumbup: - check the tea thread in my sig for more details... :awesomenod:

:peace:PS


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Offlinetregar
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Re: psilocin (4-ho-dmt) first experience [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #15941401 - 03/13/12 11:17 AM (9 years, 8 months ago)

As a mild to strong reducing agent, it's possible that the ascorbic acid converts any oxidized psilocin back into psilocin, this has been theorized by a few at the advanced mycology forum. This could be what is actually going on....especially due to the observable color change from deep blue to nearly clear/tan with the addition of the vitamin C.

I like the mushroom 4-ho-dmt for a seperate trip one month, as it is easy to fall asleep later, and you get good sleep.

I like the mescaline + 25i-nbome for a seperate trip on another trip one month, as it is a much longer lasting trip. you get to bed much later, and mescaline of course lasts a long time.

So they are each great in their own ways.

i'll give the converted 4-ho-dmt another go this weekend after tolerance is back down to normal, and report on the trip.


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Offlinetregar
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Re: psilocin (4-ho-dmt) first experience [Re: tregar]
    #15942674 - 03/13/12 05:44 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Always make sure to use a lot of naoh or the reaction will fail, also you will observe bubbles like those in the above picture of the converted 4-ho-dmt.

Use 15 to 20mg of naoh to 10mg of 4-aco-dmt in 4ml of distilled water, after the microwaving of water and additon of naoh...and addition of 4-aco-dmt....

....swirl the vial for 10minutes under 133 to 135 degree F water, it will form a super dark blue inky color with bubbles galore if the reaction worked....if no bubbles...then you still have 4-aco-dmt, it means you didn't use enough naoh.


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Offlinetregar
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Re: psilocin (4-ho-dmt) first experience [Re: tregar]
    #15980677 - 03/22/12 12:42 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

very important update: the dilute acid catalyzed hydrolyis of 4-aco-dmt into 4-ho-dmt works much better than the naoh hydrolysis, as none of the psilocin is destroyed or oxidized (as 4-ho-dmt is unstable in alkaline or basic conditions).
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The acid catalyzed hydrolysis of acetyl-psilocin to psilocin worked much better than the base (naoh) catalyzed hydrolysis, all of the psilocin seems to have been preserved (none of it oxidized)....psilocin is unstable in hot alkaline solutions, but is stable in acetic environments. Light was also turned off during 20 minute reflux, 10mg was sampled, and it was 100% different from 4-aco-dmt. 4-ho-dmt came on quickly within 20 minutes, was stimulating and felt like an amphetamine, very awake, very euphoric and definately psychedelic. Pupils fully dilated, extremely visual and psychedelic, not even a hint of sedation or loss of muscular control, able to move around freely in strong psychedelic state. It also felt as if I had taken 80mg of mdma (just as Shulgin states on his below 10mg dose of 4-ho-dmt)...very nice. The music is blowing me away right now. now to take it again in 2 weeks when I have no tolerance to psychedelics. There was a wave-like phenomena noticed the whole trip, it would pull me in and out like a sine wave, quite remarkable, the colors of the walls kept changing and i saw visual stuff shooting across room leaving sparkly trails. Very enjoyable.

I based this experiment on the University student experiment on the acid catalyzed hydrolysis of acetyl-salicilic acid (aspirin) to salicilic acid.

1. heating mantle set to 3.75 setting
2. 50ml round bottom flask, it sat in water bath which was brought to a temp of 140 degree F, and held there for 20 minutes. 10ml of distilled water was added with stirbar.
3. 2 drops of muriatic acid was added to water in flask (ph=2), along with 50mg of 4-aco-dmt.
4 this was allowed to spin at 6.5 stir setting for 20 minutes, reflux tube put on flask opening, and ice cold water run thru condenser, this was to prevent any hcl acid from evaporating off.
5. after 20 minutes, flask transfered to freezer for 20 minutes to cool down. color = clear.
6. then 1 smidgen of baking soda added to flask, ph then measured, ph = 8, this neutralized the acid, to make it palatable, then 1/2 vitamin c crushed table added, the 10ml (50mg) of 4-ho-dmt was then storred in freezer to preserve it.
7. 10mg of the solution was sampled, definately active and it was NOT any longer 4-aco-dmt but felt 100% like 4-ho-dmt. (psilocin).

By the way, i was going back thru erowid 4-aco-dmt vaults as well as the bluelight 4-aco-dmt big and dandy threads and read of several accounts of people falling asleep while using 4-aco-dmt, one person's left arm became numb at erowid, another had a seizure at a concert, several people report feeling as though a towel of ether had been placed over their mouth, just wanting to pass out on the stuff, i totally agree, 4-aco-dmt to me is not even a drug but some sort of foreign invader that my body rejects, it is not safe imho, but 4-ho-dmt is totally safe that i could tell from all my trials, and now my favorite psychedelic right along with mescaline.

DwayneHoover (15-10-2010, 20:36, BL forum):
Quote:

"Feel like I could just go to sleep right now..." You well may...it can be very sedating for some...over 20mg and it just gives me a strong weird head buzz the puts me right out just like someone held a rag of ether over my face...no visuals, no psychedelic anything. Some have suggested I try it with a stimulant, and there are excellent sounding reports of doing it after coming up on some 2c-i which i love, which i will need to try. by itself though, for me it acts like a very fast knockout pill of some sort...weird. oh well.




My thoughts exactly...it was not psychedelic at all to me at 20mg (or even the lower doses), it felt just like the same kind of "knock me out" experience as that poster, spot on. I was actually very frightened of the extreme sedation and very uncomfortable body load, it was one of the worst feeling times i've ever had, like i had the flu. This was not a fluke, because she was feeling the exact same way with the same dosage. Sampling small doses of the stuff on odd days also caused the flu feeling and symptoms to come back along with loss of muscular control (especially in the arms).

Plain water can also hydrolyze the 4-aco-dmt to 4-ho-dmt (just as it can hydrolyze aspirin), but plain water hydrolysis is incredibly slow, and this is why no one uses it, even for any kind of real world hydrolysis experiments. however, acid catalyzed hydrolysis is rapid. In my very first trial with 4-aco-dmt (my only good trip)...i had dissolved the 4-aco-dmt into a cup of water, stirred it and let it sit a long while before I drank it, I also by chance read of a similar report of a person dissolving their 4-aco-dmt into gatorade (which is acidic around ph=4) waited a while then drank it slowly (as I did, drank slowly)...they said the trip was much different from 4-aco-dmt, and preferred the gatorade dissolved stuff. I still don't recommend plain water hydrolysis cause it is very very slow, and we don't have any idea how much is actually hydrolyzed over the course of 1 hour for example.

4-ho-dmt is 100% identical to mushrooms. All of nature looked spectacular. With closed eyes on the acid catalyzed 4-ho-dmt at 10mg before going to bed, i kept seeing so many incredible forever changing neon-multi-colored visuals that I found it hard to believe that I was seeing what I was seeing. CEV's were incredible. (and this was with quite a bit of tolerance)

Hydrolsis can take place in plain dh20 over a period of time (i read this in the CR science report on aspirin hydrolysis, but they said it is so slow that no one uses it.), so it's possible that a good percentage (if not all of it!) hydrolyzed into 4-ho-dmt. I read a report on BL of a person who dissolved their 4-aco-dmt into gatorade (which is very acidic), and the effects were very different from 4-aco-dmt.

The hydrolysis done with 10ml of water, 50mg 4-aco-dmt, 2 drops of muriatic, (then heat to 140 degree F for 20 minutes), put a dish of some kind with ice on it above the heating flask so any hcl vapors drip back down into flask (reflux lid may not even be needed)...then cool it down for 15 minutes, then add a smidgen of baking soda (to neutralize, leftover is just salt and carbon dixoxide that evaporates off) then preserve with vitamin c, and freeze (it is a solid clear white color) in a vial converts all of it into 4-ho-dmt (psilocin) in a short amount of time. each 2ml = 10mg of 4-ho-dmt.

This is a common University Chemistry Lab where students hydolyze acetyl-salicylic (aspirin) into salicylic acid and acetic acid using a solution of dilute hcl acid. You want to make sure to use dilute hcl acid and not sulfuric acid. The same way acetyl-psilocin can be easily hydrolyzed into psilocin and acetic acid. They also used 140 degree F and 30 minute heating time for rapid hydrolysis.

...the effects are incredible, psilocin is so different from 4-aco-dmt it's not even funny, it's not sedating, no nausea, no loss of muscular control, but up-lifting, and the most visual psychedelic i've ever tried, it has a very strong comeup just like mushrooms and the very subtle mushroom carrier wave is present the whole time. 4-ho-dmt descriptions by Shulgin are very accurate and right on the money, amazing stuff. CEV's are ever-changing other-worldly scenes and patterns, i found it more visual than ayahuasca, i was able to move around freely and even go outside and admire nature, some of what i saw outside looked nearly like extraterrestial shrines, nature and psilocybin go together so well. Everything was much brigther and colorful than normal, so very colorful. The walls inside changed to every hue of color, greens, reds, pinks, purples and blues, over and over, beautiful. I had tried a 2nd dosage of the stuff (again 10mg) from the freezer and it again had the same effects, and comes on quickly on an empty stomach (about 25 to 30 minutes), especially if you swish some of it around in the mouth, it lasts a good 4 hours.

TIHKAL on 4-ho-dmt:
http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/tihkal/tihkal18.shtml

1st paper on acid catalyzed hydrolysis of aspirin:
http://www.crscientific.com/article-aspirin.html

Below is shown the dilute acid catalyzed hydrolysis of acetyl-salicylic acid (aspirin) to salicylic acid in 30 minutes at 140 degree F (60 degree C).
















Edited by tregar (03/22/12 01:21 PM)


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Offlinetregar
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Re: psilocin (4-ho-dmt) first experience [Re: tregar]
    #15980698 - 03/22/12 12:48 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

last pic (the 50mg per 10ml 4-ho-dmt, apportioned off into individual 2ml (10mg) samples in 5 seperate vials....shown is one of the 2ml (10mg) vials of frozen 4-ho-dmt after addition of smidgen of baking soda (to neutralize dilute acid) to make it palatable, then crushed vitamin C tablet added 1 minute later to aid preservation. taste is bitter/salty/slightly ascorbic acidic taste.



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InvisibleDawks
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Re: psilocin (4-ho-dmt) first experience [Re: tregar]
    #15981318 - 03/22/12 03:20 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

This thread makes me want to use mushrooms :mushroom2: :crazy2:


--------------------
date ; unzip ; strip ; touch ; grep ; finger ; mount ; fsck ; more ; yes ; umount ; sleep


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Offlinetregar
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Re: psilocin (4-ho-dmt) first experience [Re: Dawks]
    #16018173 - 03/30/12 10:09 AM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Important update: don't use the naoh catalyzed hydrolysis above! it can destroy some of the psilocin as it is unstable in alkaline basic solutions, the dilute acid catalyzed hydrolysis is much better to use as it does not destroy any of the psilocin! also it is much, much more potent.

This post is continued here in the chemistry forum:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/15913155
hxxp://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/15913155
------------------
According to the aspirin paper #4, plain water at ambient room temperature will hydrolyze 90% of the aspirin in 36 hours. it's quite possible that 4-aco-dmt left in some water at room temp will convert totally into 4-ho-dmt after 36 hours.

a dilute acid solution (ph= 1 to 2) of 4-aco-dmt theoretically converts into 4-ho-dmt after 1 hour at 140 degree F...notice that in the aspirin paper #4, that 90% of aspirin will also hydrolyze into it's parent compound after 1 hour at 140 degree F in a dilute acid solution.

Shulgin on 4-ho-dmt:
hxxp://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/tihkal/tihkal18.shtml

Hydolysis of aspirin paper #1:
hxxp://www.crscientific.com/article-aspirin.html

Hydrolysis of aspirin paper #2:
hxxp://www.philasim.org/newmanual/exp14.pdf

Hydrolysis of aspirin paper #3:
hxxp://www.kii.ntf.uni-lj.si/analchemvoc/SPEKTRA/kinetics2.htm


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Invisibledwpineal
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Re: psilocin (4-ho-dmt) first experience [Re: tregar]
    #16018370 - 03/30/12 11:13 AM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Thanks for keeping us updated, very very cool info!!

:awethumb:


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Offlineskande
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Re: psilocin (4-ho-dmt) first experience [Re: dwpineal]
    #20977641 - 12/15/14 01:19 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)


The following has been happening in my dreams in recent times:
So stupid !
I haven't been able to talk for over 24 hours. I can't swallow anything, I have to spit in a jug, I can't sleep either.
I followed Tregar's first tek, but with way too much lye (that's been eyeballed). Resultingly, the vitamin C didn't neutralize the lye and I was left with a burnt esophagus. I could have used a PH test for probably less than 5 bucks. So retarded !


--------------------


I am currently sleeping, whoever is typing what you are reading is not me.

Learning the gameplay of reality.


Edited by skande (12/15/14 01:39 AM)


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