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shroominmyroom
Grasshopper


Registered: 10/30/14
Posts: 3,639
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Re: Rye Soak Water Liquid Culture! [Re: taGyo]
#21060028 - 01/03/15 10:03 AM (10 years, 16 days ago) |
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Edited by shroominmyroom (07/31/17 11:28 AM)
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taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



Registered: 10/16/14
Posts: 18,802
Loc: Journal Land
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
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I'll keep the thread posted,
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows
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AMU Q&A
Dominus fortunae meae sum
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taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



Registered: 10/16/14
Posts: 18,802
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Re: Rye Soak Water Liquid Culture! [Re: taGyo]
#21063813 - 01/03/15 09:54 PM (10 years, 15 days ago) |
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Re-did them and added water,
They're not so murky now :],
Thanks guys.
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows
TNF Q&A
AMU Q&A
Dominus fortunae meae sum
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hamloaf
Q-dood ®©™√



Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 24,389
Loc: ation: Based.
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Re: Rye Soak Water Liquid Culture! [Re: Pastywhyte]
#21063835 - 01/03/15 10:00 PM (10 years, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: I have disliked sugar based LC for some time now. The SITR LC that I decided to try has reinforced my stance yet again. The myc is slow to recover and I am going to go back to storing my grain soak water again for my next LC. I am also giving malt a go again, hopefully that won't let me down short term, never tried malt before for LC but my last jars worth of grain water cracked in the PC so I had no choice.
Regardless in terms of recovery time and the myceliums performance after, I like gwlc a lot. Its a little tricky to deal with the sediment etc but once you get those things figured out I love the performance.
Indeed. These last experiments with the addition of the dextrose, I have not been pleased with. Malt Kicks ass for liquid media based culture broth. How much malt did you use per amount of water? Add a little bit of nutritional yeast for the addition of extra nutrients and minerals @ 4%. I use .4th of a gram per quart of water. Mycelium loves it.
Just made 6 LME only LC's with the addition of nutritional yeast. That's the old school go-to recipe. The original recipe was returned to because the intentions of these next round of LC's is to expand these fresh Pan. Stip. (glow in the dark oyster mushroom), and blue oyster mushroom mycelium LC's just received from Sporeworks and give some live culture syringes away in the Marketplace.
The Eberbach came in this afternoon too, so a whole new level of LC's is about to be achieved.

It's be a few weeks before the Eberbach will be able to be played with due to time constraints and prior scheduling.
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hamloaf
Q-dood ®©™√



Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 24,389
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Re: Rye Soak Water Liquid Culture! [Re: hamloaf]
#21082476 - 01/07/15 01:56 PM (10 years, 12 days ago) |
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Quart jars: COLONIZED!

Half gallon jars: ALMOST FULLY COLONIZED!

Gonna spawn this rye GWLC spawn to straight pasteurized horse manure (technically 75/25/3% manure/vermiculite/gypsum) inside of 50 quart Sterelite clear plastic storage totes constructed into monotub fruiting chambers in the amount of 3. Each substrate will be comprised of a 1/2 gallon of freshly fully colonized grain spawn spawned to 1 gallon of freshly pasteurized bulk substrate materials for a spawn ratio equaling 1:2. Substrate depth after being built will be between 1 and 2 inches thick.
These Milo GWLC's are SUPER murky. WAY more murkier than rye.
Here goes the undiluted media.

It can BARELY be seen through, even when held in front of a 100 watt, 6500k cfl lamp.
Now the diluted to 4% media.

This one is much more transparent, and leap-off, and the beginning of colonization of the media can be observed.
Between Rye and Red Milo, so far, I like the rye GWLC better, but that's only because even though the rye media was undiluted, you can still see through it fairly easily. Confident in the fact that these Red Milo GWLC's will PUNISH those grains once in lands on them.
More to come!
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,972
Loc: Canada
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Re: Rye Soak Water Liquid Culture! [Re: hamloaf]
#21082641 - 01/07/15 02:34 PM (10 years, 12 days ago) |
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My favorite gwlc is millet hands down. Loaded with goodness and the easiest to see through. Once colonized it almost resembles a honey LC.
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hamloaf
Q-dood ®©™√



Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 24,389
Loc: ation: Based.
Last seen: 19 hours, 2 minutes
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Re: Rye Soak Water Liquid Culture! [Re: Pastywhyte]
#21086067 - 01/08/15 07:20 AM (10 years, 11 days ago) |
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Researched with WBS, high quality Red Milo, and rye. Rye being the choice of grains to run spawn through for this cultivator. So many advantages to using rye. Never ran millet before. Almost did one year, but found rye instead. Seeing as how many commercial mushroom cultivators use millet, millet definitely peaks my interests. Just been fortunate enough to always have a source of rye readily available.
In fact, to stretch the rye supply, the Red Milo is primarily what's used in grainmaster jars. Said grainmasters containing colonized Red Milo are then transferred using grain to grain transfers into receiving bags of sterilized rye. Rye does best at at fruiting for two major reasons. 1. Size of grain. The larger the grain the more moisture it can hold and release at fruiting time. 2. Nutrition level of grain. Rye is the most nutritious of all grain choices we can use in this hobby. The more nutritious the medium is, the slightly slower the mycelium will take to colonize it which is almost always made up for at fruiting time.
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Rye Soak Water Liquid Culture! [Re: hamloaf]
#21086124 - 01/08/15 07:44 AM (10 years, 11 days ago) |
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Why do you think #2
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!
PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
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blackdust


Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 8,327
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Re: Rye Soak Water Liquid Culture! [Re: Violet]
#21086275 - 01/08/15 08:51 AM (10 years, 11 days ago) |
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I used rye for all the grows in my sig. Gotta pay attention when Ham writes. He will be a TC.

Violet, check out the search function and look at the images and compare them to the spawn used.
Edited by blackdust (01/08/15 08:52 AM)
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Rye Soak Water Liquid Culture! [Re: blackdust]
#21086287 - 01/08/15 08:57 AM (10 years, 11 days ago) |
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I have. It's why I ask. Especially when it's been said by the likes of RR and others that brown rice is most nutritious, even "too nutritious" without adjusting the process accordingly.
Starch is a major source of grain nutrition for mycelium - rye is strong, but brown rice and grass seed have so much excess starch that their prep waters are thicker with it after prep than any others.
But mainly I just want to know what has quantified hamloaf's statement. Genuine curiosity, because I've not seen any truly valid comparison that showed rye is better than birdseed (millet/milo) or wheat.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!
PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
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blackdust


Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 8,327
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Re: Rye Soak Water Liquid Culture! [Re: Violet]
#21086368 - 01/08/15 09:24 AM (10 years, 11 days ago) |
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Violet, can you give some sources on this? I have been meaning to do my homework on the different spawn mediums and their nutrition and other qualities that affect mushroom production but have been to lazy to actually do my own research. I am interested in Ham's response as well. I just know that using 10 qts of rye to a 66qt mono is gonna give me 9 - 10 oz of dried mushroom upon first flush. This is pretty consistent for me.
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Rye Soak Water Liquid Culture! [Re: blackdust]
#21086558 - 01/08/15 10:21 AM (10 years, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
blackdust said: check out the search function and look
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!
PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
• Violet's Teks and Posts •
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blackdust


Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 8,327
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Re: Rye Soak Water Liquid Culture! [Re: Violet]
#21086574 - 01/08/15 10:26 AM (10 years, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
Violet said:
Quote:
blackdust said: check out the search function and look

I thought I was coming in here for some sources and not speculation. should have known better.
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Rye Soak Water Liquid Culture! [Re: blackdust] 1
#21086615 - 01/08/15 10:43 AM (10 years, 11 days ago) |
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I hope you're facepalming at your inability to follow your own suggestion and utfse. Dish it out but can't take it? You expect me to spoon-feed you a minute after telling me to use the search engine?
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!
PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
• Violet's Teks and Posts •
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blackdust


Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 8,327
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Re: Rye Soak Water Liquid Culture! [Re: Violet]
#21086652 - 01/08/15 10:57 AM (10 years, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
Violet said: I hope you're facepalming at your inability to follow your own suggestion and utfse. Dish it out but can't take it? You expect me to spoon-feed you a minute after telling me to use the search engine? 
I do if ya wanna back up your claims.  Get off your high horse Violet and show me what you got in the stable. Oh, never mind. Call up Cron/ and get me kicked out like you do to everybody in your threads. deleting peoples comments in your thread that you dont like. I'm doing a pom just so you will stop crying about how no one is showing pics of it being done right. My god, maybe I should threaten you and say "play nice or I'm not sharing". Everybody seems to be getting the wrong scrubbies. Maybe I will luck out. I think Whyte hasn;t got the correct ones either. I like you Violet, just so many facepalms in some of the claims. I can't get over the one about pom better than PF. Or how you grow the strongest mushrooms ever. This is not a flame. Just my opinion about cultivation. knocking up some agar dishes on Sunday. So I should have a completed pom with fruits in a month. You gonna allow my to help support your tek? either way I do feel incredibly bad over some of the noobs that followed the tek. i.e. not beginner friendly. If I get removed from this thread or banned b/c of my vaild comments then it's a same considering what I am saying is so mild compared to how some TC's respond/ Cron, I got the damn spoiler on. Just dont look at this.
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Rye Soak Water Liquid Culture! [Re: blackdust]
#21086707 - 01/08/15 11:09 AM (10 years, 11 days ago) |
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So it's cool when you tell me to use the search tool, but when confronted with your own advice that makes me on a high horse? You will point others to a search but won't search yourself? You expect me to "back up my claims" in the same fashion of which you refuse to?  For someone who uses the facepalm emoji like the letter E, you're close to the most facepalm-worthy user here.
Hey, you gave me a good idea - maybe we will remove you from the rest of my teks since you're so poorly behaved, hypocritical, and flaming.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!
PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
• Violet's Teks and Posts •
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blackdust


Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 8,327
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Re: Rye Soak Water Liquid Culture! [Re: hamloaf] 1
#21086769 - 01/08/15 11:20 AM (10 years, 11 days ago) |
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Ham, I had to quote the progress in one post for the PDF in "Hanloaf's Cultivation Archive". 
Quote:
hamloaf said: Was having a conversation with a few other members about LC's and the nutritional content of them the other week ago. Don't remember which thread it was in. What I do remember is user "PastyWhyte" confessing that he uses is grain soak water to make LC's out of. I had recently had the same idea, but had never done it before so, I decided to try it yesterday while doing a grain run.

Even placed a few grains of rye in there.

Truth be told, I replaced the grain water in those LC's with other grain water on another burner that was further along in the boil, then sterilized the media for 45 minutes at 15-18 psi. The water that replaced the water featured in the OP was darker, and had some sediment in it.
The mediums are currently sitting safely in the vacuum of the AA x25 Steroclave. Have a clean culture on agar in a petri dish that's waiting to inoculate these things when I get into the lab next. More to come.
Quote:
hamloaf said: The mediums were inoculated yesterday with live, clean culture from a petri dish.

The wedges settled on the top of the mediums because the temperature reached above 80F in the lab. Body heat, the flowhood motor running, and lighting all create heat build up in the spawning laboratory. When doing multiple inoculations for hours the liquid mediums, containers, agar, and the petri dish cultures themselves become heated to ambient room temperature. That causes the wedges to float.

When the wedges are left to float, they very rapidly form a mat of mycelium that grows across the top of the culture. When said mat is allowed to colonize the top of the liquid medium, it suffocates the the culture below.
Solution: You have to go digging out the mat with a pair of forceps, or tweezers opening vectors for contamination before the mat can colonize the surface. Pevent the mat from forming all together by keeping the colonization temperature of your liquid broth mediums at 72-75F.

More to come.
Quote:
hamloaf said: For anybody watching this thread. Here goes one of the mediums colonizing away.

Looking like it'll be ready to aspire into syringes early next week. We'll see.
Quote:
hamloaf said: Here goes the one of the mediums colonizing away as of this morning! Progress is visual.

There are 3 of these. All pretty much at the same point of colonization.
Have chosen to transfer this liquid mycelium straight to grains. The grain mediums are sterilized and loaded into the lab for inoculation of these LC's. Decided to go with 1 half gallon jar, and 1 quart jar of sterilized, high quality Red Milo as grainmasters for each LC. All grain mediums were soaked, boiled, dried, loaded into vessels, and sterilized for an hour and a half at 18 psi (AA 941).
The LC's will be aspired using recycled, sterilized syringes sterilized like this (click link below). http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/12098357#12098357 2 syringes per each LC will inoculate it's own separate grain medium, and be labeled accordingly (LC1, sample1, date, ect). LC's are scheduled to be aspired, and put to grains Tuesday.

For the purposes of increased GE into denser substrates, a few modifications to the way lids are usually designed and built have been made to the lids intended for use on the half gallon jars.
First, the hole size was increased from 3, 5/64th inch holes to 3, 1/8th inch holes in the same triangular cluster. Next, the filter disk size was increased from nickle-sized to quarter-sized disks.






The disk size increase allots for ample room for filtering and adhesive material to be applied to the lid the increased size in holes and cluster formation without issue. The mediums were sterilized at a higher psi for the same intents and purposes. More on the various sterilization times and why at the link below. http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20813166#20813166
Thanks to anybody tuning into this thread. More to come as developments are made.
Quote:
hamloaf said: Here goes the mediums just before being shook, aspired, and inoculated to their receiving grain mediums.

The mediums are wiped down with an alcohol soaked paper towel, then placed directly downstream of the laminar flowhood. The parafilm is removed. The media is grasped firmly with both hands. The media is shaken vigorously and vertically for 15-30 seconds (I shake for 30).
Because I am working in front of a flowhood, the medium is allowed to be absorbed by the filter disk, spilling out all over the lid and vessel.

The media vessel, and filter material are simply wiped with alcohol, then repositioned directly downstream in the sterile air from the flowhood.
Next, the torch is fired up, and the lid to the liquid media vessel is loosened. The recycled syringe's water contents are squirted into a seperate container, then the needle flame sterilized.

Next, the lid of the liquid culture container is removed. The lid is then positioned directly downstream of the laminar flow of air.
Close attention is payed to where the freshly shaken mycelium is through out the media. Aiming for the liquid mycelium, the needle is placed into liquid media vessel and the plunger is pulled. The lid to the liquid culture is replaced as quickly as possible, and tighlty screwed back down.
The needle is quickly wiped free of any culture that gets stuck to the outside of the needle with an alcohol soaked paper towel. The needle is then quickly flame sterilized, cooled in front of the flowhood, and the syringe cap is replaced. A small piece of parafilm (1 inch) is folded in half then placed/wrapped around where the syringe cap meets the body.
Nice thick LC's!

My hands are covered with plastic gloves at all times. The hands are thoroughly, and steadily soaked in 71% iso alcohol, before, during, and after each step in the aforementioned processes.
While performing aspirations, the cap to the syringe is placed directly downstream of the laminar flow with the open end facing the HEPA.

6 syringes of thick liquid culture were aspired all together. 2 from each medium. They were each labeled "GT 1, sample 1", ect, and so-forth.
6 grain mediums were inoculated. Each grain medium was assigned and designated to it's own sample of the liquid culture.

Over the next few days the cultures will be monitored visually. Being inspected for recovery time, vigor of growth, and contamination. You will be updated as developments are made. Thanks for checking this out.
Quote:
hamloaf said: 2 days later the liquid mycelium has past the recovery stage and have begun colonizing the sterile grains.

Over the last few months I have been practicing my LC skills after about a 3 year hiatus from doing LC's. This particular LC will be the 5th time around the world with LC's in the last 2 months. All successful except for one bag out of round 4 where a light green mold popped up (probably penicillin) right along the LC's inoculation pattern. I don't think it was my LC though, because I have 2 other samples from the same LC that are colonizing right along. I think the contamination was due to the grains in that bag becoming too dry from excessively running the flowhood that week as one measure to clean and combat a mice infestation everyday for that week. I won the fight with the mice though. The mice have not returned to my lab in about 4 days, but a few of my grain bags got dried out a little bit. Said bags were very slow to colonize at first compared to the bags where the grains were slightly wetter. The bags with the slightly wetter grains are all fully colonized.

These events/symptoms were noticed 3 days ago. The only adjustments made to the lab was to not run the flowhood so much, and drop the temperature of the lab 7F to create some condensation in the bags. Now the bags have recovered and are beginning to colonize at normal speed.

Since I have returned to LC's I have been using 1.5 table spoons each of potato dextrose and light malt extract to a quart of water. Before that I used to just use LME at the same amount, and I am beginning to think about cutting the dextrose again. The straight LME cultures always had better recovery once they hit the grains. I think it has something to do with all the sugar in the dextrose that causes the myce to go diabetic or something once it hits the grains. Either way, ime, recovery and colonization time are much better when using LC's without the dextrose.
So far I am liking this Rye Soak Liquid culture. I like the look of the recovered mycelium that this culture has created. The recovered mycelium has a really extravagant and glossy shade of white to it. I also like the time it took for this culture to recover and begin to colonize the grains. I also like the way that this culture already has it's own acronym. Technically, the water used to create the liquid medium for this experiment was from the end of the boil cycle just before taking the grains off of the stove though.
The reason I used the water from the end of the boil cycle instead of water from just the straight soak was because I noticed that the water at the end of the boil cycle was much darker suggesting more nutrition in the water, plus there was sediment in the water.
A few things noted about the culture this media created. It was slower to colonize than my usual recipe. In those jars before the shake, it LOOKS like there was a lot of myce in there, but there really wasn't. Once the cultures were shaken, the yield of mycelium was only about 24 CC's of fresh liquid culture from each jar. My guess as to what caused the slower rate of colonization is due to the extra nutrition of the media from not being diluted.
For the next round of LC's, I am going to return to the 1.5 tablespoons of LME only per quart of water. Cutting out the dextrose all together with the addition of nutritional yeast a 4% (.4th of a gram per quart of water) and play with this rye boil water liquid culture recipe a bit more. If by somehow this rye boil culturing media parallels or exceeds my expectations, or performs as good or better than an LME LC, I am switching to using grain water at the end of the boil cycle as the main choice for liquid culturing media. The Next 2 RBLC's experiments are going to be diluted, and one is going to have the addition of nutritional yeast.
Quote:
hamloaf said: That's cool that shroominmyroom is conducting their own research with their grain boil water.
I wouldn't have strained off the sediment. 9 hours to strain the medium, to me, defeats the purpose of utilizing this culturing medium as a means to save time, money, and effort spent on gathering and preparing the ingredients to make the LC. Sediment in liquid media is a good thing for the liquid myce. Sediment gives the dikaryotic mycelium strands something to grab onto, feed from, and leap-off of.
The only reason I would choose to dilute was to get faster colonization. Other than that, I prefer media with high nutritional content. So does the mycelium. Plan to add nutritional yeast to another non-diluted rye/grain boil water liquid culture test batch, as well as try the diluted formula with, and with out the addition of nutritional yeast. I have a clone culture being worked on down to an isolate that's on it's third transfer.

Once I hit a monoculture, the plan is to conduct the next round of liquid culture experiments with said isolate, and see what's really going on. This medium is SHREDDING the grains. Only 6 days from inoculation and these jars are at over 25% colonization, and could have been shook yesterday.
Shook em' up this morning.

It's being projected that these grain cultures will have their medium colonized with in 2-5 days from the shake.
Soaking some high quality Red Milo right now. Makes sense that I should whip up a few LC's using the Milo boil water, so I am posting about this in hopes that I don't forget to do exactly that in the midst of the huge workload of today.
Two things I am not sure of: 1. How to dilute the medium. 2. Whether or not doing a Milo Boil Water Liquid Culture warrants it's own thread.

Quote:
hamloaf said: I am disgraced to report that 2 of the grain cultures were lost to what appears to be bacillus. You can tell by the greasy appearance of the grains without any mycelium colonization.
My guess as to where the contamination came from was probably in my sterile technique for that day. I was getting too pictious and most likely cross-contaminated somewheres. Solution: Stop using the camera so much during lab work.
The other 4 grain mediums are doing well, however.

Give them another 3-4 days tops before the jars become fully colonized.
Got the Milo Boil Liquid Mediums inoculated, as well, with some clone culture on it's 3 transfer.

More to come as developments are made. Thanks for checking this out.
Quote:
hamloaf said: Quart jars: COLONIZED!

Half gallon jars: ALMOST FULLY COLONIZED!

Gonna spawn this rye GWLC spawn to straight pasteurized horse manure (technically 75/25/3% manure/vermiculite/gypsum) inside of 50 quart Sterelite clear plastic storage totes constructed into monotub fruiting chambers in the amount of 3. Each substrate will be comprised of a 1/2 gallon of freshly fully colonized grain spawn spawned to 1 gallon of freshly pasteurized bulk substrate materials for a spawn ratio equaling 1:2. Substrate depth after being built will be between 1 and 2 inches thick.
These Milo GWLC's are SUPER murky. WAY more murkier than rye.
Here goes the undiluted media.

It can BARELY be seen through, even when held in front of a 100 watt, 6500k cfl lamp.
Now the diluted to 4% media.

This one is much more transparent, and leap-off, and the beginning of colonization of the media can be observed.
Between Rye and Red Milo, so far, I like the rye GWLC better, but that's only because even though the rye media was undiluted, you can still see through it fairly easily. Confident in the fact that these Red Milo GWLC's will PUNISH those grains once in lands on them.
More to come!
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blackdust


Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 8,327
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Re: Rye Soak Water Liquid Culture! [Re: Violet]
#21087023 - 01/08/15 12:12 PM (10 years, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
Violet said: you're close to the most facepalm-worthy user here.
Violet, you're close are to the most facepalm-worthy user here.
hahaha, just talk to Total and Cronicr about this and apparently this is okay. The only difference between me and you is I'm getting out of this.
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Rye Soak Water Liquid Culture! [Re: blackdust]
#21087049 - 01/08/15 12:17 PM (10 years, 11 days ago) |
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Oh sure, *this* is fine.... Although now yore derailing a thread with flames. But don't mistake that for thinking your behavior everywhere is kosher. It's why you're banned from several threads.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!
PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
• Violet's Teks and Posts •
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azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
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Re: Rye Soak Water Liquid Culture! [Re: blackdust]
#21087054 - 01/08/15 12:18 PM (10 years, 11 days ago) |
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