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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Oil War: A Marxist Perspective
    #2096658 - 11/12/03 12:14 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I'll begin with a disclaimer: im fully aware that the Bush junta does not view its adventure in Iraq as a Marxist class war; and it is for this reason that i still oppose to the Iraq war.

And that leads us to the topic of this thread: what would happen if we, as dogmatic pacifists, allowed the wealthy oil sheikhs in the mideast to have it their way simply to avoid a conflict?? The answer is quite obvious: they would price gouge millions of poor American families literally to death. It is of course doubly irresponsible and hippocrytical for anyone that claims to be a political leftist to allow the wealthy in another country to screw over the poor in one's own country. Marx himself would have agreed that war is absolutely necessary in this case as revolutionary action by the poor against the rich.

As such, under a more legitimate US govt (note the usage "more legitimate" as opposed to "legitimate"), the aggressive and genocidal seizure of mideast oil might be viewed as a necessary action taken on behalf of poor American families. However, even then the invasion must necessarily victimize poor mideastern families to a much larger extent than its intended victims.

Personally i believe that once it really does become necessary for a govt to choose between the lives of our ppl vs. those in another country, then we are on the brink of a global catastrophe anway, since other (nuclear-armed) world govts are in the same boat. Bad govt is govt that is actually willing to make such choices.

Your comments are appreciated...


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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OfflineAnnomM
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Re: Oil War: A Marxist Perspective [Re: Annapurna1]
    #2096696 - 11/12/03 12:29 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

what would happen if we, as dogmatic pacifists, allowed the wealthy oil sheikhs in the mideast to have it their way simply to avoid a conflict?? The answer is quite obvious: they would price gouge millions of poor American families literally to death.



Poor American families to death? I don't think that would happen. Gasoline prices in Holland are four times higher than in America. Nobody died yet.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: Oil War: A Marxist Perspective [Re: Annom]
    #2096708 - 11/12/03 12:35 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Im talking about a catastrophic surge in oil prices. Oil prices trippled in 1999-2000 without significantly impacting the US economy. But what would happen if oil was suddenly $1000/bbl?? This is not as far flung as it sounds, since they do hold a monopoly.

I may be wrong, but the way i view the situation in the mideast now is an uneasy equilibrium between threats of military agression by the West vs. threats of price gouging by the oil sheikhs. This is what is determining the price of oil at this point in time.

One must also consider that gasoline is heavily taxed in the US and even more so in Holland. As such, the price of oil must increase substantially before the price of gasoline increases.


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


Edited by Annapurna1 (11/12/03 12:47 PM)


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Oil War: A Marxist Perspective [Re: Annapurna1]
    #2096851 - 11/12/03 01:12 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
And that leads us to the topic of this thread: what would happen if we, as dogmatic pacifists, allowed the wealthy oil sheikhs in the mideast to have it their way simply to avoid a conflict?? The answer is quite obvious: they would price gouge millions of poor American families literally to death.



Although the mideast is a great source of crude oil, there are other sources. If prices rose too high, people would reduce consumption and production of other sources would increase. There would come a point where certain producers would see an opportunity to grab a larger market share by lowering their prices thereby cutting into the shiekhs' profits. Certain mid-east suppliers could 'break ranks.' It could also trigger an economic recession or even a depression - this would greatly reduce oil consumption. Then of course, as you pointed out, there would also be the danger of military action being used against the shiekhs. It would not be in the shiekhs' best interest to raise the prices too high and I think they know this. However, if Muslim fundamentalists were in control, their attitudes might prompt them to behave quite differently.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: Oil War: A Marxist Perspective [Re: Evolving]
    #2096909 - 11/12/03 01:33 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I should also add that the US junta's aim in the mideast is to take the place of the oil sheikhs, which would result in similar action against them from other nations...


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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Invisiblemuhurgle
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Re: Oil War: A Marxist Perspective [Re: Annapurna1]
    #2097443 - 11/12/03 03:39 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Haha. If the price of oil really skyrocketed, then maybe the poor american citizen would have to economise what's actually a limited resource. I pray to God that this will never happen. It is imperative that I can keep driving my three ton SUV to work every day. The day I'd have to drive a fuel efficient Toyota, is the day I kill myself and my family. I couldn't live with the shame.


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"To make this mundane world sublime
Take half a gram of phanerothyme."

Aldous Huxley


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Invisiblemuhurgle
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Re: Oil War: A Marxist Perspective [Re: Annapurna1]
    #2097444 - 11/12/03 03:39 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Twice?


--------------------
"To make this mundane world sublime
Take half a gram of phanerothyme."

Aldous Huxley


Edited by muhurgle (11/12/03 03:40 PM)


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Oil War: A Marxist Perspective [Re: muhurgle]
    #2097507 - 11/12/03 03:51 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

It will happen soon enough.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Oil War: A Marxist Perspective [Re: Annapurna1]
    #2097861 - 11/12/03 05:39 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)


But what would happen if oil was suddenly $1000/bbl?? This is not as
far flung as it sounds, since they do hold a monopoly.


They don't hold a monopoly. The Middle East has a shitload of oil,
but so does Venezuala, Russia, and spots in the ocean.


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OfflineBhairabas
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Re: Oil War: A Marxist Perspective [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #2097983 - 11/12/03 06:25 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

It's not a matter if but when.. Th US in gonna have to change how it consumes oil if it want's to survive another century.. If they raised prices it would actualy make people drive less which in my eye's is a good thing..


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