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Offlineteamkiller
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Re: The Most Gruesome Moments in the CIA ‘Torture Report’ [Re: fapjack]
    #20955289 - 12/09/14 10:36 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

also as far as i know, this report doesn't bring up the people the cia hand off to other intelligence agencies, like from countries that don't give a fuck and do real torture.


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OfflineDirtyTomFlint
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Re: The Most Gruesome Moments in the CIA ‘Torture Report’ [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #20955304 - 12/09/14 10:39 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:

innocent of course, just like everyone in prison is innocent




Some of them definitely are. There are really some literal randoms who were in Guantanamo. In the current leaked 500 pages, there are at least 2 people who were CIA informants whom the CIA tortured by accident.

But yeah, it's over. 9/11 and everything that followed was a mess. Let's throw some high ranking CIA niggaz in prison, close our eyes and just hope we never do this shit again.


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Know Your Body, Know Your Mind, Know Your Substance, Know Your Source

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OfflineDragonChaser
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Re: The Most Gruesome Moments in the CIA ‘Torture Report’ [Re: Uzziel] * 1
    #20955312 - 12/09/14 10:42 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Uzziel said:
Not true at all. Did you know the Japanese and Nazis are responsible for testing many of the various human anatomies that gave us our boiling points, freezing points, average time for hypothermia and MUCH more.






I think you missed my point.  I didn't say the Japanese and Germans didn't torture people or do fucked up experiments, I said they considered torture an ineffective way of consistently gleaming reliable intelligence.


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My name is Mud

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: The Most Gruesome Moments in the CIA ‘Torture Report’ [Re: DragonChaser]
    #20955328 - 12/09/14 10:46 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

DragonChaser said:
Even the Japanese and Germans during WWII thought torture was the sloppiest, most unreliable way of getting intel.  It's just not effective.




would that be because the japanese were all about some torture, usually
torturing people that didnt know anything to start with? after the US
dropped the bombs on nagasaki and hiroshima they tortured a captured pilot
who knew nothing about the manhattan project, after a while he confessed we
had hundreds of bombs and would be bombing tokyo, kyoto and other cities.

many claim torture isnt effective, I'll guarantee you it is, it worked very
well for the japanese in china

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Offlinefapjack
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Re: The Most Gruesome Moments in the CIA ‘Torture Report’ [Re: Prisoner#1] * 6
    #20955342 - 12/09/14 10:51 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Its a good way to terrorize people, its a shitty way to collect intelligence.


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OfflineDragonChaser
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Re: The Most Gruesome Moments in the CIA ‘Torture Report’ [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #20955356 - 12/09/14 10:54 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Yes they used it.  No it did not work well.

https://rsismilitarystudies.wordpress.com/2009/12/11/5-myths-about-torture-and-truth/

The Germans-

Yes, the Gestapo did torture people for intelligence, especially in later years. But this reflected not torture’s efficacy but the loss of many seasoned professionals to World War II, increasingly desperate competition for intelligence among Gestapo units and an influx of less disciplined younger members. (Why do serious, tedious police work when you have a uniform and a whip?) It’s surprising how unsuccessful the Gestapo’s brutal efforts were. They failed to break senior leaders of the French, Danish, Polish and German resistance. I’ve spent more than a decade collecting all the cases of Gestapo torture “successes” in multiple languages; the number is small and the results pathetic, especially compared with the devastating effects of public cooperation and informers.

The Japanese-

And such examples could be multiplied. The Japanese fascists, no strangers to torture, said it best in their field manual, which was found in Burma during World War II: They described torture as the clumsiest possible method of gathering intelligence. Like most sensible torturers, they preferred to use torture for intimidation, not information.


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My name is Mud

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: The Most Gruesome Moments in the CIA ‘Torture Report’ [Re: DragonChaser]
    #20955416 - 12/09/14 11:14 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

I guess you guys are like most, you have a very narrow view of what torture
is. you read these documents by all these people that swear that they dont
torture, when it's revealed that they do, suddenly torture was ineffective
so they really didnt use it much... but it's still so widely used, why is
that when it doesnt yield any positive results?

the detainee isnt going anywhere, there's time to check out most of the
information they're giving and there are other ways of getting the info,
the germans used may effective techniques through both world wars including
what would happen when they were discovered as spies and not simply pilots
or soldiers. of course, torture is far more effective wen you're dealing
with people that actually have some knowledge which is why often times
you'll find that important persons go through SERE training and have only
the basic info they need for a specific operation

it doesnt work when you have impatient and unskilled operators working interrogations

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OfflineBlunderSoftly
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Re: The Most Gruesome Moments in the CIA ‘Torture Report’ [Re: Prisoner#1] * 1
    #20955508 - 12/09/14 11:51 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
it worked very
well for the japanese in china




Yeah man we should be more like the Japanese in China

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
I guess you guys are like most, you have a very narrow view of what torture
is. you read these documents by all these people that swear that they dont
torture, when it's revealed that they do, suddenly torture was ineffective
so they really didnt use it much... but it's still so widely used, why is
that when it doesnt yield any positive results?





Wtf do you know about torture clown?

We shouldn't engage in it and its a large part of why people are so willing to go to war with us. This report is distilled from like 4000 pages and really its just a little page in this whole Genocide in Iraq that most of us are paying for everyday.

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OfflineDirtyTomFlint
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Re: The Most Gruesome Moments in the CIA ‘Torture Report’ [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #20955573 - 12/10/14 12:12 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
I guess you guys are like most, you have a very narrow view of what torture
is.




Did you read the report? The details were quite descriptive and illustrative of how they tortured these people. I'm all for interrogation, but look at what they did. Some of the stuff was pretty psychologically damning. And, I'll reiterate that at least some of the people who were detained and tortured were innocent and the report confirms this.

The report reviewed a whole bunch of cases, none of which produced any information that could have saved lives.


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Know Your Body, Know Your Mind, Know Your Substance, Know Your Source

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Offlinefapjack
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Re: The Most Gruesome Moments in the CIA ‘Torture Report’ [Re: Prisoner#1] * 1
    #20956444 - 12/10/14 08:24 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Who the fuck wants to be known as pro-torture?  We shouldn't allow anyone to do that type of sick shit, even if the inmates do deserve it.  America should try to hold themselves to a higher standard than a bunch of war hardened goat herders.  My good friend was a hawkish Vietnam vet that did 2 tours and even he thought torture was fucked up.  If you need to kill someone fine, don't destroy them.


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OfflineJkirk3279
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Re: The Most Gruesome Moments in the CIA ‘Torture Report’ [Re: Prisoner#1] * 1
    #20956823 - 12/10/14 10:35 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Except of course, a lot of the detainees have been cleared; they never hurt anybody.

The majority of them left in Gitmo are open for release if any country will take them.

It brings to mind; not only did the Torture not work, but how many people were tortured just because Bush offered a “Bounty” and random people were kidnapped off the street and falsely accused?

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OfflineDirtyTomFlint
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Re: The Most Gruesome Moments in the CIA ‘Torture Report’ [Re: fapjack]
    #20957251 - 12/10/14 12:51 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

fapjack said:
Who the fuck wants to be known as pro-torture?  We shouldn't allow anyone to do that type of sick shit, even if the inmates do deserve it.  America should try to hold themselves to a higher standard than a bunch of war hardened goat herders.  My good friend was a hawkish Vietnam vet that did 2 tours and even he thought torture was fucked up.  If you need to kill someone fine, don't destroy them.




I agree. I thought the whole beautiful thing about America is that criminals and immigrants have freedom? Lol


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OfflineTheGreenArrow
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Re: The Most Gruesome Moments in the CIA ‘Torture Report’ [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #20957262 - 12/10/14 12:56 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Cojo said:
I read a bit about this earlier today online and my heart dropped. These kinds of things are just...awful. :sad: Like, I don't even know how to react.






there is no way to react. we can fake the shock and horror but it doesnt
change a thing. these people that were tortured, no one really cared if they
gave up info and even if they gave up good intel it's not like it goes into
a report. the CIA claimed that no WMDs were found in Iraq even though leaked
documents published by wikileaks says otherwise

the way I see it, these guys were responsible for the same shit they
underwent, they terrorized civilians, they were the ones that were
responsible for planning various attacks mostly on civilian targets.
why the hell should I care if they were tortured and killed when that
was their goal. their punishment fit their crimes.



As humans you don't see it as our place to stand above behavior that would sink us to their level?  You're basically saying it's torture for spites sake.  That's harrowing to think that men in power have that sort of outlook about something like this. 
We're funny little creatures.


--------------------
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an
invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, conn a ship, write a
sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the
dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve an
equation, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a
computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects.- Robert A. Heinlein
Saint RedBow of the Shroomey Loomey-Patron Saint of Sandbaggin Sumbitchs

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OfflineUzziel
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Re: The Most Gruesome Moments in the CIA ‘Torture Report’ [Re: fapjack]
    #20957273 - 12/10/14 12:59 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

fapjack said:
Who the fuck wants to be known as pro-torture?  We shouldn't allow anyone to do that type of sick shit, even if the inmates do deserve it.  America should try to hold themselves to a higher standard than a bunch of war hardened goat herders.  My good friend was a hawkish Vietnam vet that did 2 tours and even he thought torture was fucked up.  If you need to kill someone fine, don't destroy them.





I disagree. I think people would be a whole lot less inclined to do certain things if they knew that they would be tortured beyond their imagination.

A prison sentence is a joke. It might be boring but there are ways for them to entertain themselves. Many of the people there who get out go straight back to doing the same crimes that they got sent in for.

People might think twice about doing a violent crime if they knew they'd end up in a torture cell.

I don't care what you think of my ideals, but in my eyes what comes around goes around and I'm not talking about Karma or some mystical bullshit... I'm saying if you beat and rape a girl, you should get worse treatment and be shown no mercy

Fuck the mentality that people shouldn't REALLY pay for their crimes...

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Invisibletrekie
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Re: The Most Gruesome Moments in the CIA ‘Torture Report’ [Re: fapjack] * 3
    #20957414 - 12/10/14 01:36 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)



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I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: The Most Gruesome Moments in the CIA ‘Torture Report’ [Re: Confucian]
    #20957428 - 12/10/14 01:41 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

I felt a sort of numb repulsion as I read about this. I really, truly wish I could act surprised about this systematic depravity, but I just dunno man :pokerawe:

These guys have previously and will likely continue to get away with worse than murder.


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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Offlinempd
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Re: The Most Gruesome Moments in the CIA ‘Torture Report’ [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #20957533 - 12/10/14 02:06 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

I hope they are still torturing the shit out of these douchebags.  That's what you get for plotting against the USA.  Fuck them.  They are getting what they deserve.  Karma is a bitch.


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There is no truer calling for mankind than that of true conservatism.

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OfflineWebster10
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Re: The Most Gruesome Moments in the CIA ‘Torture Report’ [Re: mpd]
    #20957683 - 12/10/14 02:46 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

mpd said:
I hope they are still torturing the shit out of these douchebags.  That's what you get for plotting against the USA.  Fuck them.  They are getting what they deserve.  Karma is a bitch.




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:leaf: :usa:

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Offlinefapjack
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Re: The Most Gruesome Moments in the CIA ‘Torture Report’ [Re: mpd] * 1
    #20957923 - 12/10/14 03:35 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

mpd said:
I hope they are still torturing the shit out of these douchebags.  That's what you get for plotting against the USA.  Fuck them.  They are getting what they deserve.  Karma is a bitch.




If you believe in karma, what happens to the pieces of shit that do the torturing?  Lets use terrorism against terrorists because they deserve to be in pain! That makes a lot of sense...  American exceptionalism has been on the decline since WW2 because of people like you.  This country used to mean something, and slowly and slowly that is disappearing.  Fucking people with broken moral compasses are the same type of people that blow themselves up in crowded parks because the enemy is not like me.  The enemy is evil, the enemy deserves to suffer.  USA!  USA!


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OfflineUzziel
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Re: The Most Gruesome Moments in the CIA ‘Torture Report’ [Re: fapjack]
    #20957960 - 12/10/14 03:41 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

How else do you deal with terrorists? Shake their hand and give them a blowjob and pray they'll stop?

LOL.

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