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Offlinepsyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
Re: Why is non-procreative vaginal or anal sex ever consensual? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #20950361 - 12/08/14 11:57 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

not only are there hormonal differences, but there are actually physical differences in male and female brains as well, i suppose the larger corpus callosum is just due to societal conditioning too right?
http://www.webmd.com/balance/features/how-male-female-brains-differ


--------------------
Think for yourself, question authority

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OfflineAlyssa
consecrated woman ✝️
Female
Registered: 11/25/14
Posts: 1,531
Last seen: 3 months, 12 days
Re: Why is non-procreative vaginal or anal sex ever consensual? [Re: psyconaught]
    #20950374 - 12/09/14 12:02 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

psyconaught said:
not only are there hormonal differences, but there are actually physical differences in male and female brains as well, i suppose the larger corpus callosum is just due to societal conditioning too right?
http://www.webmd.com/balance/features/how-male-female-brains-differ



I figured this would be mentioned, but observations haven't indicated that it has any effect on the mind.


--------------------
I'm Alyssa.
I'm consecrated to the Immaculate Heart.
I don't want her to have to look at adultery to save my privileged living cells, so please keep it PG-13.

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OfflineAlyssa
consecrated woman ✝️
Female
Registered: 11/25/14
Posts: 1,531
Last seen: 3 months, 12 days
Re: Why is non-procreative vaginal or anal sex ever consensual? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #20950380 - 12/09/14 12:03 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
Can you name and provide evidence for a living system that is affected by both testosterone and estrogen in precisely the same way?



No, I can't, but you can't provide any evidence for your hypothesis either. Mine intuitively makes more sense.


--------------------
I'm Alyssa.
I'm consecrated to the Immaculate Heart.
I don't want her to have to look at adultery to save my privileged living cells, so please keep it PG-13.

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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
Free sVs!
Female


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
Re: Why is non-procreative vaginal or anal sex ever consensual? [Re: Alyssa]
    #20950383 - 12/09/14 12:04 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Alyssa said:
Quote:

psyconaught said:
not only are there hormonal differences, but there are actually physical differences in male and female brains as well, i suppose the larger corpus callosum is just due to societal conditioning too right?
http://www.webmd.com/balance/features/how-male-female-brains-differ



I figured this would be mentioned, but observations haven't indicated that it has any effect on the mind.




The notion that observable morphological and phenotypic differences in areas of the brain which are known to regulate mood could have absolutely no effect on psychology is so outlandish that you are going to have to produce evidence to support your claim.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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Offlinepsyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
Re: Why is non-procreative vaginal or anal sex ever consensual? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #20950411 - 12/09/14 12:13 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
Quote:

Alyssa said:
Quote:

psyconaught said:
not only are there hormonal differences, but there are actually physical differences in male and female brains as well, i suppose the larger corpus callosum is just due to societal conditioning too right?
http://www.webmd.com/balance/features/how-male-female-brains-differ



I figured this would be mentioned, but observations haven't indicated that it has any effect on the mind.




The notion that observable morphological and phenotypic differences in areas of the brain which are known to regulate mood could have absolutely no effect on psychology is so outlandish that you are going to have to produce evidence to support your claim.



exactly. The opposite has been shown, theres a very clear correlation between the brains structures and the effects on the mind


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Think for yourself, question authority

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OfflineAlyssa
consecrated woman ✝️
Female
Registered: 11/25/14
Posts: 1,531
Last seen: 3 months, 12 days
Re: Why is non-procreative vaginal or anal sex ever consensual? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #20950414 - 12/09/14 12:14 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
The notion that observable morphological and phenotypic differences in areas of the brain which are known to regulate mood could have absolutely no effect on psychology is so outlandish that you are going to have to produce evidence for your claim.



For it to be outlandish you need to produce evidence of a difference in brain activity that isn't explainable by the difference in experiences due to preconceptions of gender roles. This has already been demonstrated to be a significant contributing factor to human behavior, so your claim that differences in hormone levels and structures that don't have a clear relationship to neural activity are also factors is unsubstantiated.


--------------------
I'm Alyssa.
I'm consecrated to the Immaculate Heart.
I don't want her to have to look at adultery to save my privileged living cells, so please keep it PG-13.

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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
Free sVs!
Female


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
Re: Why is non-procreative vaginal or anal sex ever consensual? [Re: Alyssa]
    #20950436 - 12/09/14 12:21 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Alyssa said:
Quote:

BlindSophist said:
The notion that observable morphological and phenotypic differences in areas of the brain which are known to regulate mood could have absolutely no effect on psychology is so outlandish that you are going to have to produce evidence for your claim.



For it to be outlandish you need to produce evidence of a difference in brain activity that isn't explainable by the difference in experiences due to preconceptions of gender roles.




In General Bio one golden rule was drilled into my head, over and over again: form equals function. If the form (brain morphology) of a living system is different, its function (psychology) is different. We can assume this is true without evidence, and to discount it completely as an explanation for sex differences in subjective experiences, you would have to provide more evidence than you could ever find.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


Edited by Sophistic Radiance (12/09/14 12:27 AM)

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OfflineAlyssa
consecrated woman ✝️
Female
Registered: 11/25/14
Posts: 1,531
Last seen: 3 months, 12 days
Re: Why is non-procreative vaginal or anal sex ever consensual? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #20950469 - 12/09/14 12:31 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
In General Bio one golden rule was drilled into my head, over and over again: form equals function. If the form (brain morphology) of a living system is different, its function (psychology) is different.



This only applies to the forms of the neurons themselves, not of the structures that contain them.

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
We can assume this is true without evidence



You can't assume anything is true without evidence.


--------------------
I'm Alyssa.
I'm consecrated to the Immaculate Heart.
I don't want her to have to look at adultery to save my privileged living cells, so please keep it PG-13.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSophistic Radiance
Free sVs!
Female


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
Re: Why is non-procreative vaginal or anal sex ever consensual? [Re: Alyssa]
    #20950477 - 12/09/14 12:33 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Alyssa said:
Quote:

BlindSophist said:
In General Bio one golden rule was drilled into my head, over and over again: form equals function. If the form (brain morphology) of a living system is different, its function (psychology) is different.



This only applies to the forms of the neurons themselves, not of the structures that contain them.




A single, isolated neuron has no function and does not occur in nature. The rule applies to living systems at every scale, from cells to tissues to organs to organ systems to bodies to beehives.

Quote:

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
We can assume this is true without evidence



You can't assume anything is true without evidence.




You do it all the time. Remember?

Quote:

Alyssa said:
Quote:

BlindSophist said:
Quote:

Alyssa said:
Quote:

Crystal G said:
If women stopped waxing their mustaches, and we all shaved our heads and wore baggy clothes we would have a hard time telling who is male and who is female.



There's nothing about female facial hair that detracts from femininity, because without artificial hormones it never occurs in anywhere near the same quantity as in males. Haircuts and clothes aren't natural, and the result of artificial limitations imposed on the ability to distinguish sex has no bearing on the nature of sexuality. I disagree with the idea that sex (as opposed to gender) has nothing to do with sexuality.




What about bearded ladies? Some women develop beards at normal hormone levels due to congenital androgen hypersensitivity of the hair follicles so this is a totally serious question. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hirsutism



Although I don't have proof of this, my intuition says that in the cases where this is genetic it's due to mutations caused by human civilization, I don't believe it would occur naturally.




--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


Edited by Sophistic Radiance (12/09/14 12:39 AM)

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OfflineAlyssa
consecrated woman ✝️
Female
Registered: 11/25/14
Posts: 1,531
Last seen: 3 months, 12 days
Re: Why is non-procreative vaginal or anal sex ever consensual? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #20950495 - 12/09/14 12:39 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
Quote:

Alyssa said:
Quote:

BlindSophist said:
In General Bio one golden rule was drilled into my head, over and over again: form equals function. If the form (brain morphology) of a living system is different, its function (psychology) is different.



This only applies to the forms of the neurons themselves, not of the structures that contain them.




A single, isolated neuron has no function and does not occur in nature. The rule applies to living systems at every scale, from cells to tissues to beehives.



When did I say single or isolated?

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
Quote:

Alyssa said:
Quote:

BlindSophist said:
We can assume this is true without evidence



You can't assume anything is true without evidence.




You do it all the time. Remember?



Occam's razor.

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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
Free sVs!
Female


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
Re: Why is non-procreative vaginal or anal sex ever consensual? [Re: Alyssa]
    #20950509 - 12/09/14 12:43 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Alyssa said:
Quote:

BlindSophist said:
Quote:

Alyssa said:
Quote:

BlindSophist said:
In General Bio one golden rule was drilled into my head, over and over again: form equals function. If the form (brain morphology) of a living system is different, its function (psychology) is different.



This only applies to the forms of the neurons themselves, not of the structures that contain them.




A single, isolated neuron has no function and does not occur in nature. The rule applies to living systems at every scale, from cells to tissues to beehives.



When did I say single or isolated?




Just now:

Quote:


This only applies to the forms of the neurons themselves, not of the structures that contain them




:shrug:

Quote:

Alyssa said:
Occam's razor.




Do you know what this means?

Edited by Sophistic Radiance (12/09/14 12:49 AM)

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OfflineAlyssa
consecrated woman ✝️
Female
Registered: 11/25/14
Posts: 1,531
Last seen: 3 months, 12 days
Re: Why is non-procreative vaginal or anal sex ever consensual? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #20950532 - 12/09/14 12:57 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
Quote:

Alyssa said:
When did I say single or isolated?




Just now.

Quote:

Alyssa said:
This only applies to the forms of the neurons themselves, not of the structures that contain them






"Neurons" is plural.

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
Quote:

Alyssa said:
Occam's razor.




Do you know what that means?



The simplest explanation should be assumed, the evidence is the logic of probability. You're introducing a factor saying you can assume it without evidence, which would also apply to a postulated difference in behavior between the sexes caused by the difference in the gravitational fields of Venus and Mars, but this isn't valid.


--------------------
I'm Alyssa.
I'm consecrated to the Immaculate Heart.
I don't want her to have to look at adultery to save my privileged living cells, so please keep it PG-13.

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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
Free sVs!
Female


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
Re: Why is non-procreative vaginal or anal sex ever consensual? [Re: Alyssa]
    #20950548 - 12/09/14 01:05 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

"Themselves" is also plural, what is your point? The rule of "form equals function" is totally irrelevant in consideration of "neurons themselves" in relation to psychological function, because the structural interrelationship of those neurons is the basis of their functioning as part of the central nervous system, and the basis of the mind.

Here, the simplest explanation would be that difference in form (sexual dimorphism of the brain) is to account for at least some difference in function (difference in behavior observed along gender lines).

Your outrageously complicated explanation would be that differences in form exist but are, mysteriously, completely unaccountable to differences in function, and also that gender roles which are imposed from above are completely unrelated to these differences in function which counterintuitively don't exist, leaving wide open the question of where those gender roles actually came from if not from functional differences, in addition to the question of why there are no functional differences in spite of the differences in form.

You can say "patriarchy" and wash your hands of it, but that doesn't explain any of the many observed differences in gender roles that are unrelated to the war of the sexes, and it is not the parsimonious or scientific answer. It is your opinion, and while you are entitled to an opinion you are not entitled to being right.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


Edited by Sophistic Radiance (12/09/14 05:11 AM)

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OfflineAlyssa
consecrated woman ✝️
Female
Registered: 11/25/14
Posts: 1,531
Last seen: 3 months, 12 days
Re: Why is non-procreative vaginal or anal sex ever consensual? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #20950620 - 12/09/14 01:42 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
"Themselves" is also plural, what is your point?



That the function of an individual neuron (meaning its interaction with others within the nervous system as a whole) is dependent on its form. This hasn't been shown to be true on the level of primary brain structures, especially considering that their female and male versions are very similar while different types of neurons in an individual's brain vary greatly. There's nothing to indicate that the minor overall structural differences are due to a difference in functionality rather than just the proportions of the body.

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
The outrageously complicated explanation is that differences in form exist but are completely unaccountable to differences in function



Again, there have been no observations that provide any evidence for a correlation. You're suggesting that there is one based on how you think it works, not on the available data.


--------------------
I'm Alyssa.
I'm consecrated to the Immaculate Heart.
I don't want her to have to look at adultery to save my privileged living cells, so please keep it PG-13.

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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
Free sVs!
Female


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
Re: Why is non-procreative vaginal or anal sex ever consensual? [Re: Alyssa]
    #20950651 - 12/09/14 01:57 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Alyssa said:
Quote:

BlindSophist said:
"Themselves" is also plural, what is your point?



That the function of an individual neuron (meaning its interaction with others within the nervous system as a whole) is dependent on its form. This hasn't been shown to be true on the level of primary brain structures, especially considering that their female and male versions are very similar while different types of neurons in an individual's brain vary greatly. There's nothing to indicate that the minor overall structural differences are due to a difference in functionality rather than just the proportions of the body.



The differences in form are in structures of the brain such as the stria terminalis which have been directly associated with mood regulation. You have to explain why sexual dimorphism of brain structures that function to regulate mood are not worth considering as part of a possible explanation of the psychological differences observed between the sexes.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


Edited by Sophistic Radiance (12/09/14 02:03 AM)

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OfflineAlyssa
consecrated woman ✝️
Female
Registered: 11/25/14
Posts: 1,531
Last seen: 3 months, 12 days
Re: Why is non-procreative vaginal or anal sex ever consensual? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #20950674 - 12/09/14 02:07 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
The differences in form are in structures of the brain such as the stria terminalis which have been directly associated with mood regulation. You have to explain why sexual dimorphism of brain structures that function to regulate mood are not worth considering in terms of psychological differences between the sexes.



You have to explain why they are, like I said it's an additional factor so it detracts from the simplicity of the explanation. The fact that the function of a structure as a whole has been identified doesn't indicate that its sexual dimorphism is functionally significant, it's far more likely that whatever properties have been attributed to a particular structure are consistent in both sexes.


--------------------
I'm Alyssa.
I'm consecrated to the Immaculate Heart.
I don't want her to have to look at adultery to save my privileged living cells, so please keep it PG-13.

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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
Free sVs!
Female


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
Re: Why is non-procreative vaginal or anal sex ever consensual? [Re: Alyssa]
    #20950683 - 12/09/14 02:15 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

By ignoring that form equals function, you are ignoring the methods of biology as a science, even as you appeal to the authority of biology as a science in order to validate your radical political views. It's "likely" that your personal motivations for making these claims are more important to you than the truth of the matter.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


Edited by Sophistic Radiance (12/09/14 02:27 AM)

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OfflineAlyssa
consecrated woman ✝️
Female
Registered: 11/25/14
Posts: 1,531
Last seen: 3 months, 12 days
Re: Why is non-procreative vaginal or anal sex ever consensual? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #20950707 - 12/09/14 02:25 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
By ignoring that form equals function, you are ignoring the methods of biology as a science, even as you appeal to the credibility of biology as a science in order to validate your radical political views. It's "likely" that your personal motivations for making these claims are more important to you than the truth of the matter.



I already told you how you're misapplying this principle, it applies on the scale of cells, proteins and neurotransmitters, not organs or primary brain structures. Taking a biological principle out of context doesn't lend any weight to your argument.


--------------------
I'm Alyssa.
I'm consecrated to the Immaculate Heart.
I don't want her to have to look at adultery to save my privileged living cells, so please keep it PG-13.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSophistic Radiance
Free sVs!
Female


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
Re: Why is non-procreative vaginal or anal sex ever consensual? [Re: Alyssa]
    #20950713 - 12/09/14 02:27 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Alyssa said:
Quote:

BlindSophist said:
By ignoring that form equals function, you are ignoring the methods of biology as a science, even as you appeal to the credibility of biology as a science in order to validate your radical political views. It's "likely" that your personal motivations for making these claims are more important to you than the truth of the matter.



I already told you how you're misapplying this principle, it applies on the scale of cells, proteins and neurotransmitters, not organs or primary brain structures. Taking a biological principle out of context doesn't lend any weight to your argument.




This is bullshit. You literally don't know the first thing about biology.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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OfflineMoxyOx
Grazin'

Registered: 10/08/10
Posts: 1,439
Loc: Flag
Last seen: 5 months, 5 days
Re: Why is non-procreative vaginal or anal sex ever consensual? [Re: Sophistic Radiance] * 1
    #20950740 - 12/09/14 02:41 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Save your breath Sophist.


--------------------
No one behind, no one ahead.
The path the ancients cleared has closed.
And the other path, everyone's path,
easy and wide, goes nowhere.
I am alone and find my way.

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