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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Am I Alone?
    #2092981 - 11/11/03 04:52 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

The point was briefly discussed in another thread wherein the poster declared that (not a direct quote) "I believe what I believe and any proof or evidence for or against does not concern me." This attitude, whether applied to politics or religion or psychedelics, concerns me deeply.

Am I alone in the search for truth? I hold no beliefs (to my conscious knowledge) that are so sacred or strongly held that I would not be eager to have them reinforced or destroyed through external validation/invalidation.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,849
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 13 days, 13 hours
Re: Am I Alone? [Re: Swami]
    #2092987 - 11/11/03 04:54 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

As long as I am around, you aren't alone, man.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Am I Alone? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2092989 - 11/11/03 04:57 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

*Hugs FG* Thanks man. It was getting scary and dark in there.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,849
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 13 days, 13 hours
Re: Am I Alone? [Re: Swami]
    #2093002 - 11/11/03 05:02 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
*Hugs FG* Thanks man. It was getting scary and dark in there. 




Yes, but now we've seen (stutters melodically) the liiiiigghhhhhttttttttttt............
:grin:

We'll leave the light on for ya.  :crazy2:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineNiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
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Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
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Re: Am I Alone? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2093017 - 11/11/03 05:09 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I think it's important to be completely open to the possibility that you're wrong about every notion you've ever concocted. At the same time its also valuable to suspend judgement on an idea until it can be followed through, of course it helps if we remember that truth is relative and that we comprehend these relative truths through myth and metaphor.

I think the only thing I believe to be a pretty substantial fact is that absolute truth cannot be known or expressed, that only relative truths can be known and even they require symbols and myth to be explained.

It's important to remember not to let our own relative truths and symbols shut us off from the world of perspectives that are out there to explore. We can embrace them without putting them on a pedastal and shutting ourselves off of anything that brings them back into perspective.


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OfflineDavid_Scape
Anti Genius
Male

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 878
Loc: U.S. of muthafuckin A.
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
Re: Am I Alone? [Re: Swami]
    #2093037 - 11/11/03 05:16 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)


One thing i know i cannot deny is my social persona (read:ego). Everyone has this and they all know when it is attacked or damaged. You cannot avoid interaction with a persons social persona. You must act threw it. Blatantly attacking somebodies ideas too straightforwardly and ruthlessly makes a person more likely to think that his social investment is being attacked.

While people can formulate ideas in search of truth and being right, we dont always act that way when we are discussing because there is other things and feelings going on. It's really an art and a lifestyle to become good at this. It takes mucho discipline.


--------------------
focusing
Flow
The Enneagram


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Anonymous

Re: Am I Alone? [Re: Swami]
    #2093070 - 11/11/03 05:26 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Your belief in "external validation/invalidation" is "sacred or strongly held".  So the claim that you are a "truth seeker" isn't entirely correct. :wink:

When you demand truth claims to meet a certain criterion in order for you to think they are valid  and that criterion hasn't been throughly examined you are apt to miss the truth entirely.

Or so I've heard.  :lol: 


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InvisiblePsiloKitten
Ganja Goddess

Registered: 02/13/99
Posts: 1,617
Re: Am I Alone? [Re: Swami]
    #2093115 - 11/11/03 05:39 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Perhaps you arent alone, but instead, traveling on your own path. There are alot of seekers out in the "wilderness" of this world taking many different paths that coincide or divide with yours across the miles.

What happens when something touches you so profoundly that change is not longer the purpose, because it has completely changed you?


--------------------


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InvisibletrendalM
point of inflection
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 19,378
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: Am I Alone? [Re: Swami]
    #2093124 - 11/11/03 05:40 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I cannot dream of a state where I could hold onto a belief so strongly that no evidence would change my mind.

No, you are definately not alone, Swami.

The Truth is my all-encompasing journey.


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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OfflineDavid_Scape
Anti Genius
Male

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 878
Loc: U.S. of muthafuckin A.
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
Re: Am I Alone? [Re: trendal]
    #2093145 - 11/11/03 05:44 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

"I cannot dream of a state where i could hold onto a belief so strongly that no evidence would change my mind."




Well, sheesh, if you put it that way i'd be skeptical as to whether such a mindstate happens at all! :grin: 


--------------------
focusing
Flow
The Enneagram


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InvisibletrendalM
point of inflection
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 19,378
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: Am I Alone? [Re: David_Scape]
    #2093150 - 11/11/03 05:45 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I think you know what I meant :wink:


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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InvisibleXochitl
synchronicitycircuit
Registered: 07/15/03
Posts: 1,241
Loc: the brainforest
Re: Am I Alone? [Re: Swami]
    #2093210 - 11/11/03 05:58 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

The point was briefly discussed in another thread wherein the poster declared that (not a direct quote) "I believe what I believe and any proof or evidence for or against does not concern me."




I hold my own direct experience via entheogens and extreme physical states to be far greater of a medium of truth than the "proof" than can be otained through the minimal western scientific experiments currently available in measuring the validity of such entheogenic experiences.

By the way Swami, what are these specific methods of obtaining evidence that you continue to allude to? Please spell out an exact method of experimentation that could aquire data regarding the validity of the ego-loss commonly experienced via entheogens, meditation, yoga, and physical pain and pleasure and then further prove or disprove the phenonmenon of ego-loss caused by the latter activities. Then, please, carry out such an experiment and present the evidence and case to the psychedelic, neurological, philosophical, spiritual, and psychological community for review. Until you can accomplish such a task, I will have to consider you the personification of apathy as you have called me for not doing the same. The burden of proof is on you.

As far as I know, no such methods of validating ego-loss have been established other than experiencing ego-loss itself.


--------------------
As we know, there are known knowns. There are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns. That is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, the ones we don't know we don't know.

-Donald Rumsfeld 2/2/02 Pentagon


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InvisibleXochitl
synchronicitycircuit
Registered: 07/15/03
Posts: 1,241
Loc: the brainforest
Re: Am I Alone? [Re: PsiloKitten]
    #2093276 - 11/11/03 06:11 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Perhaps you arent alone, but instead, traveling on your own path. There are alot of seekers out in the "wilderness" of this world taking many different paths that coincide or divide with yours across the miles.




There are many different paths to the peak of the moutain.


--------------------
As we know, there are known knowns. There are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns. That is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, the ones we don't know we don't know.

-Donald Rumsfeld 2/2/02 Pentagon


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Am I Alone? [Re: Swami]
    #2093302 - 11/11/03 06:17 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

The way I see it, if someone doesn't want their beliefs analyzed and criticized, they shouldn't post them on this forum.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisiblekaiowas
mndfrayze'speppet urme
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,498
Loc: oz
Re: Am I Alone? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2093336 - 11/11/03 06:27 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

"The way I see it, if someone doesn't want their beliefs analyzed and criticized, they shouldn't post them on this forum. "

exactly! no you're not alone on the quest for truth. I just try to keep an open mind about things and while I may not agree with everything here, I will respect it. not as truth, but as an unique idea from a certain individual. I also have this inclination that I will realize a lot of things while I'm alive, I won't however realize everything. I won't get all of "it" just my own piece.




--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Am I Alone? [Re: Xochitl]
    #2093695 - 11/11/03 08:29 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

By the way Swami, what are these specific methods of obtaining evidence that you continue to allude to?

Guess I should repost thousands of posts all over again. Do a search on Swami Challenges. I have made numerous realistic chances for people to validate their claims with little response(apathy) and zero positive results (invalid postulate).


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineMAIA
World-BridgerKartikeya (DftS)
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Registered: 04/27/01
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Re: Am I Alone? [Re: Swami]
    #2093967 - 11/11/03 09:44 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

The truth ? Why do you want to know the truth ? For what ?
Feed the hunger ? Heal the sick ? Dress the naked ? For yourself ?
Seeking the truth, is it an action or just an idea ?

MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


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Offlinepattern
multiplayer

Registered: 07/19/02
Posts: 2,183
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Re: Am I Alone? [Re: Swami]
    #2093992 - 11/11/03 09:53 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

> I hold no beliefs

Hi Swami, I'm curious on a couple things.

Do you believe that time travel to the past is possible?
Do you believe that the universe was created out of nothing?


--------------------
man = monkey + mushroom


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InvisibleXochitl
synchronicitycircuit
Registered: 07/15/03
Posts: 1,241
Loc: the brainforest
Re: Am I Alone? [Re: Swami]
    #2094017 - 11/11/03 10:00 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

By the way Swami, what are these specific methods of obtaining evidence that you continue to allude to? Please spell out an exact method of experimentation that could aquire data regarding the validity of the ego-loss commonly experienced via entheogens, meditation, yoga, and physical pain and pleasure and then further prove or disprove the phenonmenon of ego-loss caused by the latter activities. Then, please, carry out such an experiment and present the evidence and case to the psychedelic, neurological, philosophical, spiritual, and psychological community for review. Until you can accomplish such a task, I will have to consider you the personification of apathy as you have called me for not doing the same. The burden of proof is on you.




Quote:

Guess I should repost thousands of posts all over again. Do a search on Swami Challenges. I have made numerous realistic chances for people to validate their claims with little response(apathy) and zero positive results (invalid postulate).




Now, that's sidestepping. Guess you are not up to my challenge. Later bro.


--------------------
As we know, there are known knowns. There are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns. That is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, the ones we don't know we don't know.

-Donald Rumsfeld 2/2/02 Pentagon


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Am I Alone? [Re: Xochitl]
    #2094768 - 11/12/03 01:07 AM (13 years, 30 days ago)

Nothing worse than an inept rhetoritician/logician.


You obviously don't understand how the burden of proof works.
The burden of proof is not placed on just any debater. S/he who makes a positive claim is responsible for providing evidence. Now, you might have made a careless error as Swami started this thread with a subtle, negative claim (carried over from his numerous other threads on doubting the supernatural etc). Typically, threads are started with a positive claim (ex. "_____ does exist!") and an opponent then counters with a negative claim (ex. "_____ does NOT exist!").

That should've cleared things up.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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